One of my players wants to multiclass with a Paladin and a Warlock. This is 5th edition, so I don't think the rules prevent it. But as a matter of setting fluff, is that a contradiction?

On the one hand you have someone devoted to the gods of good and justice, on the other you have a warlock selling their soul to serve unknowable horrible entities. It seems like that would be something that should cause the Paladin to fall instantly. Unless some of the other Paladin types could work, like the nature one...

For that matter, what are everybody's thoughts on having a Warlock and a Paladin in the same party? An automatic cause of party friction, or just two people who happen to use harmlessly different types of magic?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;916252One of my players wants to multiclass with a Paladin and a Warlock. This is 5th edition, so I don't think the rules prevent it. But as a matter of setting fluff, is that a contradiction?

On the one hand you have someone devoted to the gods of good and justice, on the other you have a warlock selling their soul to serve unknowable horrible entities. It seems like that would be something that should cause the Paladin to fall instantly. Unless some of the other Paladin types could work, like the nature one...

For that matter, what are everybody's thoughts on having a Warlock and a Paladin in the same party? An automatic cause of party friction, or just two people who happen to use harmlessly different types of magic?

5e Paladins are not tied to Lawful Good. Or even good. They just tend to it. So you can have an evil aligned paladin whos still upholding truth and justice.

The main problem is that multiclassing in 5e is usually a bad idea. You end up loosing out on the kewl powers of the later levels. Hence why its optional and not a core rule.

As for the Warlock. They are not inherintly evil just as the Paladin is no inherintly good. They make pacts with all manner of beings and this is not selling your soul. Even with the fiend patron. But the character is garnering power from contact and that might not necessarily be as a teacher and student or selling of soul. Again its pretty open to whats going on.

So overall theres no more clash now than there would be with a Rogue or Assassin in the group based just on class. Alignment clashes may be a factor. Assuming your players arent just paying lip service to alignment. Or you arent enforcing alignment much, if at all.

I think one could arguably model versions of Mordred on a paladin/warlock multiclass type.

A paladin is about honor and chivalry....not necessarily good. But the pacts of the warlock aren't always steeped in chaos and evil. A fey pact paladin/warlock could come off as some sort of dread unseelie knight, for example....or even a seelie knight of the summer court, dedicated to Titania.

There's a lot of ways to do this.

What if the paladin took on a burden in the form of the unholy inernal or star pact? He wrestles with an unavoidable evil that seeps from his flesh but is still determined to protect the innocent and eventually shed the world of this evil he must necessarily contain and learn to understand in order to destroy it. We're getting shades or Elric here.....except with the hope of success in the end.

Anyway....neat idea, and I think there are ways to justify such a multiclass combo, although I'd suggest that paladin/warlocks are really rare.

As for the multiclass mechanical issue Omega mentions, that can impact certain styles of play I suppose, but the best methodology I've seen is players who do a 2/1 advancement rate, where one class goes up 2 levels, the other goes then advances 1. If the GM allows optional advancement (from epic level expansions on dmsguild.com, for example) then the risk of leveling out before a class reaches maximum potential is eliminated.

Another question about multiclassing in general: are you supposed to have the second class's features be acquired during play, or is it something you just level up and POOF, have magically.

Like a Warlock might need a tome or some way to actually contact the patron in-game, before being able to multiclass. Or do you just get it automatically.

Actually, Oath of Devotion Paladins are Good aligned.

However, that's the only real stumbling block.  They have the same casting stat, so you don't need to worry about that.

What are the alignment requirements of the two classes? That would seem to me to be the place to start in answering your questions.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;916268Another question about multiclassing in general: are you supposed to have the second class's features be acquired during play, or is it something you just level up and POOF, have magically.

Like a Warlock might need a tome or some way to actually contact the patron in-game, before being able to multiclass. Or do you just get it automatically.

Its up to the DM and player. There should be some sort of transition. But the rules say nothing really. Heres an exerp from the Errata.

QuoteMulticlassing
Class Features (p. 164). You gain the starting equipment of your first class only.

A warlocks pact tome would likely just appear as a gift from the being or a discovery , or they make it in their downtime. Personally if someones planning to multiclass and Im the DM then theyd better have been playing up some lead-in to it. If their reason is just "I want to exploit some gimmic" then the answers likely a "No."

So say a Barbarian is planning to multi as a Wizard. I ask the players to come to me with ideas like this and present a good reason. If its not gaming the system for some +1 gimmick then sure we can work that out. If it requires a prop, conditions or some foreshadowing to initiate then I can do that likely. Or just let the party go on a quest of their own initiation to accomplish this.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;916277Actually, Oath of Devotion Paladins are Good aligned.

However, that's the only real stumbling block.  They have the same casting stat, so you don't need to worry about that.

The entry says "Many who swear this oath are devoted to gods of law and good" Many. Not all. I could see a lawful Evil Paladin enforcing their idea of law and good on others. "Might makes my right!" But its probably from the wording and ideals the hardest to justify drifting too far outside Law or Good.

Quote from: Whitewings;916282What are the alignment requirements of the two classes? That would seem to me to be the place to start in answering your questions.

None. In 5e even Paladins are no longer alignment locked. As noted above some paths are more geared to certain alignments. But otherwise none. Warlocks even more so. You could be Lawful Good and have a Fiend for a patron. Maybee its a nice fiend? Maybee its posing as something else? Maybee you just found this funky tome and havent a clue where this awesome powers coming from?

Some Paladin/Warlock combinations make a lot more sense than others. My personal favorite is the Oath of the Ancients (basically a Green Knight) multiclassed with a Fey Pact warlock. They're thematically the most similar of any Oath/Pact combination. Then there's the obsessed Vengeance Paladin who's such a determined fiend hunter that he makes a Fiendish Pact in a twisted desire to know his enemy better, and use their own powers against them. Unearthed Arcana featured an Undying Light Pact (based on Positive/Radiant energy patrons) which I'd consider most appropriate for a Paladin of Devotion.

I'm not going to try to shoehorn any of the above into any particular alignment; I'll leave that up to the players/GMs to decide based on what best fits their characters and/or campaigns.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;916252One of my players wants to multiclass with a Paladin and a Warlock. This is 5th edition, so I don't think the rules prevent it. But as a matter of setting fluff, is that a contradiction?

Not if the pact is with celestial powers, and there is no reason why it can't be.

I think there are also a number of ways that even a...Fiendish/Devotion multiclass could work if you don't mind fudging some things. Taking the hit for another person being tricked into the pact, being 'infected' or 'marked' by demonic enemies and having to fight off the corruption inherent in it, being the subject of a Job-like bet ("Sure he's all goody two-shoes now, but what if he has demonic power at his fingertips? What then Mr. Good and Lightness? I bet he fucks it all up!"). While not limitless, with some creativity there are a lot of fun options possible.