Greetings!

I always thought it was very interesting to learn that the ancient Chinese Empire launched a war against the kingdoms of Central Asia, especially centered around Samarkhand, where upon being victorious, the Chinese General demanded that the defeated Central Asian kingdom provide something like 20,000 horses in payment for a peace treaty. The war was not merely for generic horses, so that they could be trained for war, and used as part of the cavalry forces of the Chinese Empire at the time. The horses that the Chinese Empire possessed at the time were smaller, and weaker beasts, than the kind of horses that the Steppe barbarian tribes used in their wars against the Chinese Empire, resulting in far more defeats and challenges for the Chinese Empire. The reason was, the kind of horses that the Chinese Empire possessed reacted poorly to a certain enzyme nutrient within the soil and plants of southern and central provinces of the Chinese Empire, resulting in smaller, weaker, slower horses.

After the victorious Chinese Army returned home--from a war carried out and prosecuted over 1,000 miles away, beyond the borders of the Chinese Empire--the Chinese horse-lords were able to breed the different foreign breed of horse, to create new horses that were stronger and more resilient, and didn't have the poor reaction to the enzyme nutrients in the soils and plants of southern China the way the native breed of horses did. This salient resource allowed the Chinese Empire to put new cavalry forces into battle that were equipped with the new breed of foreign horse, which strengthened the battlefield performance of their cavalry forces, which in turn had a significant effect on China's wars against the Steppe barbarian tribes along the northern frontiers.

In my own campaigns, I have devleoped various breeds of horses, all being distinct from each other and possessing various attributes and qualities. Have you developed anything like this for your own campaigns? How have your players responded to potential access to different breeds of horses, or other mounts, that have different attributes from the generic warhorse profile provided in the 5E Monster Manual?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Another interesting nuance from history, the Tarpan pony, which was the secret of the central Asian nomadic raider's success. Unlike horses, they could subsist on grass indefinitely (horses need some sort of grain as well), which made feeding large numbers easier, since you didn't have to secure alternative fodder.

However, that also turned out to be their undoing; one of the reasons none of those raiders stayed for long was that you couldn't settle horse herds on agricultural land, you still needed grass.

Quote from: Kiero;1084327Another interesting nuance from history, the Tarpan pony, which was the secret of the central Asian nomadic raider's success. Unlike horses, they could subsist on grass indefinitely (horses need some sort of grain as well), which made feeding large numbers easier, since you didn't have to secure alternative fodder.

However, that also turned out to be their undoing; one of the reasons none of those raiders stayed for long was that you couldn't settle horse herds on agricultural land, you still needed grass.

Greetings!

The Tarpan Pony. Amazing stuff how they ate very different diets, huh? The little nuances and details can provide for lots of intriguing adventures for a party to get involved with!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

While that sort of thing is very interesting to read about, it may be very hard to get more than a select group of people interested in actually playing it out.

Like the quality of materials used in weapons and armor, very important in "real life" but glossed over in games.
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Quote from: Greentongue;1084702While that sort of thing is very interesting to read about, it may be very hard to get more than a select group of people interested in actually playing it out.

Like the quality of materials used in weapons and armor, very important in "real life" but glossed over in games.
=

Greetings!

Hi Greentongue! Yeah, I can imagine there can be challenges involved. I've always had some good responses whenever there is a chance that the players, too, can gain horses or other unusual mounts that are interesting and otherwise superior.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Horse Traders Shop - "Oxcart" Earle Hosksi Lvl-4 AC-7 Htk-25 Dmge/Attk- +1 Longsword (1d8+1) or +1 Longbow (1d6+1).  Str-9 Int-15 Wis-14 Con-10 Dex-13 Chr-9 ALN: Methodical and Injurious LE. If you had to guess anything by looking at Oxcart Earle, you would say he looks like a stupid peasant. He wears rags for clothes, short boots, and a leather cap with earflaps. Oxcart Earle sells horses, donkeys, mules and other livestock. He travels the region buying any mounts or pack animals he can afford.  Often the animals are lame, crippled, aged, wild, or unbroken. Oxcart Earle then patches them up (usually with a temporary fix, or by temporarily healing the mounts) , and then he sells them to travelers... mostly. The locals spend much of time making sure oxcart earle doesn't cheat them, but even so, he gets away with selling substandard or injured animals all the time, with the last time being a blind medium warhorse (that he still has available for sale). He bought it back, but only for copper and and a few silver after being threatened by the farmer he sold it to. The Baron really doesn't care what Oxcart Earle sells so long as he pays his 20% sales tax every new moon. If pressed about selling a bad mount or pack animal, he'll simply claim ignorance and offer to trade the animal for another animal - usually another defective animal.

 Oxcart Earle's Livestock Trading Co.
- all rates in gold coin unless otherwise noted -


Item- Condition(keycode)  - notes - price    
======================================
Medium Warhorse -bh  black with white socks    110    
Dapple Gray Pony    50    
Gray Mule -lt    25
Medium Warhorse tan & black    125    
Dapple Brown Pony    65    
Gray Mule -lth    25
Medium Warhorse -oh tan & black    90    
Lt. Warhorse -sh gray with white socks    75    
Black Mule -t    35
Medium horse -w white with gray spots    75    
Lt. Warhorse -t won't willingly step in water of any kind. black & gray    85    
Chocolate Donkey -t    18
Heavy horse -w golden tan    160    
Lt. Warhorse -l (cannot gallop), white with brown spots    75    
Gray Donkey -t    18
Heavy Warhorse An excellent stallion gray with a white mane    345    
Lt. Warhorse can smell orcs at several hundred paces... black with a white star on forehead    85    
Large Dog - trained bird dog - will automatically recover shot or fallen fowl    20
Wooden Cart -o will break an axle in 1d4 days    85    
Lt. horse - w drugged - appears tame golden with black socks    85    
Brown Ox    45
Wooden Wagon    350    
Lt. Warhorse -w black with a gray mane    40    
Black Bull -t    185

Livestock actual condition keycode: b=blind, l=lame, s=ill, c=crippled o=old or aged w=wild, untame h= temporarily healed t=temperamental

notes: any animal temporarily healed will revert to its former condition in 1d6 days. Blind mounts have a 5% chance of stumbling every turn while walking but have a 50% chance of stumbling at a canter, trot, gallop, or in combat. lame animals cannot trot or gallop, and may stumble or walk with a limp. ill animals are sick, and simply wish to lie down whenever possible. If untreated ill animals may get worse. Crippled animals walk with a limp and cannot canter, trot, or gallop. Old or Aged animals tire easily, and are careless letting their riders strike trees, fence lines, etc. an aged animal can only gallop for 1d6 turns, after which, they must slow to a walk and rest for an equal number of turns before being able to gallop again. maximum distance covered in a day is 1/2 of what a normal healthy animal is capable of.  Wild or Untamed animals are hostile or fearful. They are known for biting, kicking, and generally being disagreeable. Wild mounts will not tolerate a saddle blanket, or saddle, evading all attempts to be saddled when possible, and fighting when unable to evade. They typically kick and buck attempting to throw any rider, saddle, saddle blanket, or pack off, and will use every opportunity to escape. They can knock down fences, open gates, and chew through wood, ropes, and harness. Temperamental mounts and pack animals are moody, or have phobias or fears, just like people. If placed in a stressful situation they may revert to a wild or untamed state. Temporarily Healed animals have been dosed with a curative, mild sedative, or enchantment, and will appear normal in all respects until the healing wears off ( typically 1d6 days). If Oxcart Earle is successful at selling one of his animals, he'll offer a discount on another mount or animal.

Quote from: SHARK;1084326In my own campaigns, I have devleoped various breeds of horses, all being distinct from each other and possessing various attributes and qualities. Have you developed anything like this for your own campaigns? How have your players responded to potential access to different breeds of horses, or other mounts, that have different attributes from the generic warhorse profile provided in the 5E Monster Manual?

RuneQuest and similar games have had different breeds of horses for a long time. They make sense, especially if you have different Traits, such as Hardy, Fast, Strong and Sturdy.

Quote from: soltakss;1084776RuneQuest and similar games have had different breeds of horses for a long time. They make sense, especially if you have different Traits, such as Hardy, Fast, Strong and Sturdy.

As did Pendragon.

I created stats for a number of different breeds of horses for my Honor + Intrigue game as well as a travel events table where the quality of the horse changed the odds on various results. Here's the table on breeds.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3345[/ATTACH]
(I also had random tables for figuring out what breeds were available for sale and individual write ups for the horses that included photos so people who are not horse people could see what the breeds look like.)

Pendragon and Aces & Eights are the two RPGs I know of that have detailed traits for horses.

I've never done "breed differences" for OD&D, but I've certainly done so in Gamma World.

GW mounts are defined by their mutations, thus its easy to identify "breeds" which are better for some tasks than others. I ran a Gamma Mars campaign for years where players were seeking out mounts and animal companions, so seeking out and haggling for certain breeds was a part of the campaign.

In OD&D, its mostly just pack vs. riding vs. war horses...then upper level PCs want monsters as mounts, which makes sense.

Horse breeds were integral to The Horde setting for D&D Forgotten Realms, since it was the Central Asian Steppes analog. (IIRC, Al-Qadim had to talk about camels and horse breeds, too.) And L5R began with heavy emphasis between native, smaller, weaker, Rokugani horses and Kirin/Unicorn clan imported horses from the center continent's steppes and deserts (the Burning Sands).

Not something I usually could play up because so many of my campaigns had to go through the growing pains of "killing the king does not make you king now." Post-WotC post-2000s D&D definitely had a lot of unlearning to do among "The Community!"tm to just pretend to obey laws in civic places, let alone cope that teleport and magic marts are not a given. "Why walk or ride when you can *bamf* and fly?!" :rolleyes:

There's a book by Guy Gavriel Kay called 'Under Heaven' that's about exactly this in Fantasy China. Exiled military commander is gifted a large amount of exceedingly coveted horses and it triggers all sorts of shit. Worth reading.