If that's the case, then you either have a serious marketing problem or the book just wasn't that good. As for all that post-Foucaultian semantic definition nonsense, when it comes to gaming, it's always preferable to DO something definitive than to just SAY something over and over again on a message board hoping it will be construed as definitive. Show don't tell.

Quote from: RPGPundit;794796I think you're conflating two different things here: indie self-publishing, and ideological gatekeeping.  Self-publishing makes gatekeeping ineffectual in a larger industry sense; it doesn't matter how many people say "Bob Smith shouldn't be allowed to write RPGs" if Bob can just publish one himself. But movement-gatekeeping can still be highly effective at what amounts to a kind of identity-politics, where people will allow themselves to be convinced that Bob's game is not the "right" kind of game for the type of thing they identify with.

Intellectual Gatekeeping on works when the movement is about an idea. But the early OSR wasn't about an idea but about a concrete thing the renaissance of classic D&D and similar games. And one of the groups you had a problem with, K&KA was one of the most focused on a particular things AD&D 1st edition.

And when a movement is focused on a thing or things and those things are under open licenses there can be no gatekeeping. Because the moment the original group goes off the deep end people can say "fuck you". And since the thing we are talking about here is classic D&D and other older games, being out of print they can't be changed to suit somebody agenda. There is always a point of reference that anybody interested can look at.

This social mechanism is what lead to the retro-clones in the first place. Because Castles & Crusades was not not AD&D 1st despite it compatibility with older supplements. Because Castle & Crusades was built on the open content of the d20 SRD. K&KA and Chris Gonnerman could turn around and create their own classic D&D clones.

If any intellectual gatekeeping was done it was done by people like yourself, Troll Lords, Clark Peterson of Necromancers, and other in the larger roleplaying hobby who severely criticized the writers of OSRIC and other retro-clone for recreating old editions. Spreading the word far and wide that what they was doing was dubious, shady, and illegal. Criticism that continues today.

Far from hobbling the OSR, AD&D 1st Fanatics of K&KA liberated it by successfully making the closest possible clone that is legal. Now there was an example of where the boundary lay if you wanted to write your own set of rule. This freed guys (like myself, James Raggi, yourself, etc) from the worry that their products would fall under the baleful eye of Wizards Legal because they are designed work with older editions even tho they are not clones.

Without OSRIC people would be still afraid to do anything commerically that had to do with classic D&D. Being brainwashed into thinking that doing so would be illegal and shady when the reality is that if you strip the d20 SRD of skill, feats, etc what is left is a game very close of that of classic D&D.

And all the people who came into the OSR because of liberation of classic D&D brought their own interests in. Which happened to be an interest in old school in general. Which ignited a parallel renaissance in old school gaming.

Now I documented the source of your animosity to a personal conflict with Stuart Marshall. My opinion you both contributed to that dispute. Your blog post today and general blogging style makes it understandable why you acted the way you did. As for Stuart, one reason for his sarcasm, was the relentless criticism of OSRIC as an illegal publication. He and just about everybody involved with the project at K&KA was sick of it and pissed off when they explain what they did and the limit of what they could do nobody listened. So when the two of you met in that thread the result wasn't good.

Now the deal is this. K&KA is NOT an inclusive group. They are a group focused on AD&D 1st, OD&D, and a few other older games. Want to talk about something else there, they will tell you take it somewhere else. Two version of classic D&D is what they are about and supporting OSRIC.

However they are certainly not interested in controlling or dominating a wider movement. As a community K&KA is opinionated, defensive, and sarcastic as all hell. And those members who are interested doing something in the larger OSR generally start up separate projects like Matt Finch. And they return to K&KA to talk about OSRIC, AD&D, OD&D or one of the folks there.

As for your other major point of criticism, James of Grognardia he was a blogger first and foremost. He dabbled in publishing, pursuing pre-existing project like Thousand Suns, while involved in the OSR only did or worked on, Cursed Chateau, Petty God and the infamous Dwimmermount. The last two had to be completed by others. Cursed Chateau was his only major OSR release. Being a blogger first meant his impact on were doing had severe limits.

Because whether it classic D&D or something else old school, the OSR was always about doing stuff with things not abstract ideas like the theorywank going on at the Forge. To put it another way, at the Forge they made theories and produced games based on those theories. In the OSR people produced games first and people afterward made up theories afterwards.

Quote from: RPGPundit;794798The problem you and others seem to have is that you don't recognize the power of semantics in the post-Foucaltian world. When all values have been lost and all truth reduced to deconstructed 'relative' states, then whoever gets to establish semantic definitions has enormous power.

I for one am well aware of that idea. I think the post- world that is in operation with the OLG is the world of post-OGL post-Open Content. Open content is not just a practical tool for sharing content but an expression of an ideal and way of thinking about how creative works ought to be.

Free for anybody to use as they see fit.

My opinion is that you are the guy fighting World War I with 19th century cavalry tactics.

Quote from: Kellri;794814If that's the case, then you either have a serious marketing problem or the book just wasn't that good. As for all that post-Foucaultian semantic definition nonsense, when it comes to gaming, it's always preferable to DO something definitive than to just SAY something over and over again on a message board hoping it will be construed as definitive. Show don't tell.

You're certainly new to the internet, aren't you...

Also, when are you ever going to post on your blog again? It's been like five years.

Quote from: Brad;794865Also, when are you ever going to post on your blog again? It's been like five years.

I suppose I could, but I got really tired of the whole pissant-sized 'serious business' side of the hobby and humourless cunts in general. Since I last posted on the blog, I've done quite a bit of seriously heavy freelance journalism in and around Asia of a sort that more often than not I cannot and dare not even reveal my own name. Documenting from the the front lines things like the last known use of chemical weapons in the area, interviewing ex-Khmer Rouge cannibals, observing factory riots, Burmese ethnic cleansing raids, the drug trade, the sex trade, the growth of the Russian mob into SE Asia, expats with ties to Anonymous, and that's just during my vacation time. When I get motivated to do some RPG writing, I like to do my thing and let other people whinge about the semantic implications. They might like it, they might not - I don't give a fuck, because I'm here to rock, not to roll. Nomsayin?

Quote from: Kellri;794873I suppose I could, but I got really tired of the whole pissant-sized 'serious business' side of the hobby and humourless cunts in general.

FWIW, your blog was the one I got by far the best read/use ratio out of in the last 10 years.

Quote from: Kellri;794873When I get motivated to do some RPG writing, I like to do my thing and let other people whinge about the semantic implications. They might like it, they might not - I don't give a fuck, because I'm here to rock, not to roll. Nomsayin?

Make some more CDD Netbooks using Castles and Crusades as the base. I'll even pay you to do that. I think it's funny you're still using truculent.org...heh.

Quote from: RPGPundit;794806gee, it's almost like if at that time there were two distinct groups, with the ones on the "inside" not considering the other guys to be "legit", huh?

The pre-OSR D&D community was split into several distinct groups. This is nothing new. Before the publishing side took off there was forum drama which resulted in several distinct communities. Then there was the 3rd Edition rules, 1st Edition feel crowd. Then Troll Lords got going with Castles & Crusades.

The classic D&D community was fractured before the anybody ever thought of OSRIC or publishing for classic D&D.

Quote from: estar;794927The pre-OSR D&D community was split into several distinct groups. This is nothing new. Before the publishing side took off there was forum drama which resulted in several distinct communities. Then there was the 3rd Edition rules, 1st Edition feel crowd. Then Troll Lords got going with Castles & Crusades.

The classic D&D community was fractured before the anybody ever thought of OSRIC or publishing for classic D&D.

Yes... and at the time the OSR decided none of the other communities were valid except for the Quest-for-Proto-D&D/Talmudic-Interpretation-of-Gygax-Texts/Fantasy-Fucking-Vietnam denomination of old-school nostalgia.

Quote from: RPGPundit;795257Yes... and at the time the OSR decided none of the other communities were valid except for the Quest-for-Proto-D&D/Talmudic-Interpretation-of-Gygax-Texts/Fantasy-Fucking-Vietnam denomination of old-school nostalgia.

You don't have the documentation or posts to back this up and are making up shit that never occurred in the early OSR. In short you are doing what you accused Tenkar of distorting the early history of the OSR.

You never mention the OSR or the retro-clones prior to 2009 and your commentary only turned negative after you got into a pissing match with Stuart Marshall in 2009. Which I was able to document.

You should know better.

Quote from: Brad;794920Make some more CDD Netbooks using Castles and Crusades as the base. I'll even pay you to do that. I think it's funny you're still using truculent.org...heh.

Erm...for personal and aesthetic reasons, I will never write anything for Castles & Crusades. I am nearly finished with a big OSRIC supplement tentatively entitled Dangerous Dungeons, edited by Stuart Marshall, that will update and expand all of the old CDD netbooks. We're not doing a kickstart or asking for pre-order money. Once released, there will be both a free pdf version and a for-sale hardcopy, probably through Black Blade.

As for truculent.org...that was hosting space given to me for my stuff. I've since forgotten the password and am surprised it's still online. I still get a couple emails a week asking questions about those books or requests to use one part or another for some project. The most hilarious was some guy who wanted me to send them all to him in a plain text file so he could convert them to BECMI D&D. That's one offer I didn't accept.

Quote from: estar;795276You don't have the documentation or posts to back this up and are making up shit that never occurred in the early OSR. In short you are doing what you accused Tenkar of distorting the early history of the OSR.

Yeah, that pretty much nails the Pundit's fictitious 'history' of the OSR.

Quote from: Kellri;795292I am nearly finished with a big OSRIC supplement tentatively entitled Dangerous Dungeons, edited by Stuart Marshall, that will update and expand all of the old CDD netbooks. We're not doing a kickstart or asking for pre-order money. Once released, there will be both a free pdf version and a for-sale hardcopy, probably through Black Blade.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the final version of Dangerous Dungeons!

Quote from: Kellri;795292Erm...for personal and aesthetic reasons, I will never write anything for Castles & Crusades. I am nearly finished with a big OSRIC supplement tentatively entitled Dangerous Dungeons, edited by Stuart Marshall, that will update and expand all of the old CDD netbooks. We're not doing a kickstart or asking for pre-order money. Once released, there will be both a free pdf version and a for-sale hardcopy, probably through Black Blade.

Looking forward to this.

Quote from: Kellri;795292As for truculent.org...that was hosting space given to me for my stuff. I've since forgotten the password and am surprised it's still online. I still get a couple emails a week asking questions about those books or requests to use one part or another for some project. The most hilarious was some guy who wanted me to send them all to him in a plain text file so he could convert them to BECMI D&D. That's one offer I didn't accept.

There one reason I personally wouldn't mind seeing a plain text file of all the table. So that I can code them up to use with Inspiration Pad Pro. I found by a using a good set of random tables, (and yours are among the ones I considered good), making stuff like mega dungeons become far easier.

There been work done on random dungeons over the years. A completely random approach doesn't really work out for me a least. Instead I developed what I called a constrained use of randomness.

For example I know how big a level or site should be and randomly generate the map . I will then alters about 25% to make them fit with the rest of the thing I done and to account for planned features.

Then I will randomly generate all the room. I will throw out 25% of that in favor of planned features and inhabitants. Then I will go through the remainder and give each a brief write up. The write  up ties it someway back into the rest of the area or dungeon. 25% of that is total random garbage in the sense that there is no way to make the result make any type of sense for what I am trying to do. So I reroll until I am able to come up with something that works.

I repeat this for most of the levels or areas I have.

I find this allows me to create area and locales far more quicker and with better variety. I often only have a dozen or so firm ideas and the rest I have to scratch my head until I come up with something. I find explaining random results easier and often better because things will come up that I haven't thought of before.

The trouble comes is that doing this by hand is very tedious as I am often rolling up two dozen or more entries using multiple tables. I found Inspiration Pad Pro which allows me to code up random tables of nearly any level of arbitrary complexity.

The thing is that I have to retype tables from my source. It would nice that a new product with random tables as one of its central selling point would offer the tables in plain text to make coding them up with one of the automatic generators easier.

For example I took the NPC personality tables from Paizo's Gamemastery Guide and combined with the AD&D 1st DMG Guide to produce this. I use it as a source of inspiration to come up with a NPC.

For example I generated this for a town.

chandler
finesmith
finesmith
herbalist
jeweler
jeweler
leathercrafter*
legal
merchant
ostler
religious
sailor
scholar        
scholar        
tailor*
tavern          
tavern          
tavern
weaponsmith
weaver*


Then for each entry generated a personality profile like this

Finesmith

QuoteAlignment: neutral, Possessions: scant Age: youthful, General: rough, Sanity: normal General Tendencies: opinionated/contrary, Personality: Average: well-spoken, Disposition: unfeeling/insensitive, Nature: forgiving, Honesty: deceitful, Energy: normal, Morals: lustful, Intellect: anti-intellectual, Materialism: greedy, Bravery: craven, Thrift: mean, Piety: reverent, Interests: drugs Background: Killed someone in self-defense, Goal: Marry a prince/princess, Physical: Homely, Personality: Polite bus calls attention to it with elaborate bows or other gestures., Secrets: Is the bastard child of a noble, Reward: Offer the hand of a relative in marriage

From the above I wrote

QuoteFinesmith, Quality: Poor, Prices: Average
Ecgric, age 26, is the bastard brother of the Baron of Piall. His father, the current baron’s father, secured him a finesmith apprenticeship and later a franchise in Mikva. This has seriously upset Leudast. Ecgric gets along with his half-brother the Baron however the favoritism shown by his father has left him with an inflated sense of his importance. He will states his opinion whenever he can and attempts to join in on important events. Baron Argus tolerates this but will not give him any task or position where his brother is in charge.

The AD&D 1st Edition has multiple individual tables for each entries which meant it would take an excessively long time to generate the 20 or so entries I wanted for this project. But with Inspiration Pad Pro (free BTW) it took seconds to generate 20 results and print them out.

It would nice if thing could be arranged that a spread sheet or something similar of all the tables in Dangerous Dungeon would be available so people could code up files for IPP, Tablesmith or whatever.

Quote from: estar;795276You don't have the documentation or posts to back this up and are making up shit that never occurred in the early OSR. In short you are doing what you accused Tenkar of distorting the early history of the OSR.

You never mention the OSR or the retro-clones prior to 2009 and your commentary only turned negative after you got into a pissing match with Stuart Marshall in 2009. Which I was able to document.

You should know better.

At the time I had that pissing match with stuart marshall, I had no idea who he was.

So I'll be clear here: I wasn't involved with OSRIC, I wasn't in any of those traditionalist OSR forums, I didn't know who any of these guys were.  And I'm sure that for those of you who were on the inside of those groups, there were many nice things about what was happening, and it was an exciting time.

For me, on the outside, I was happily going along in my ignorance, being Old-School, running an old-school (RC D&D) campaign, writing about old-school, designing an old-school game (or what I thought was one), and not giving a fuck about OSRIC.

So my perspective is based on how my earliest encounters with people identifying themselves as "OSR" were people telling me FtA wasn't an old school game and I wasn't an old-school gamer, and that the way I was playing wasn't old-school play, because I wasn't doing it right the way people like JMal told them "everyone" was playing it back then (where he never was); even though I was "back then" and never played it that way, nor recalled it being anything like what these people (who, from my perspective, had just come out of nowhere) were claiming it had been like.
In fact, EVERYTHING about their perspective seemed terribly not-old-school to me.  Because the real old school, the one I'd lived rather than the one they were full of nostalgic fantasies about, was an old school that was full of excitement about thinking up new cool ways of doing stuff.  That's the problem with reactionary movements; they claim to represent The Way It Was In The Beginning, but their attitude is always one of rejecting anything new. When back in the actual beginning, everyone was much less interested in maintaining strict purity and way more interested in all kinds of experimenting with exciting new ideas.

So yeah, I was predisposed to dislike that Reactionary version of the OSR right from the start, and it didn't help when the first experiences I ever had with them was of people directly or indirectly telling me I was Doing It Wrong for all these years of identifying myself as an old-school gamer.

That's the truth of the matter: that's my documentation of my experience. Was there other stuff that the OSR was doing that might have been cool? Probably, sure, as long as you drank the kool-aid of their particular vision of things.  But if you didn't, you were out.   Things only started to get better when they finally ran out of old D&D editions to slavishly copy down to the last detail.