Quote from: jhkim;1103232Thanks. That's good to hear after disappointment with the Starter Set. What's the point of a boxed set with no usable components?

I like the GM screen a lot - personally I prefer an easily packed light screen to a big heavy one.

Basically the EK gives you a complete D&D game for levels 1-6, everything you need to play indefinitely*, plus a nice sample campaign setting & adventure. I don't really see how it could be much better, assuming you don't mind the lack of miniatures stuff like battlemats & pawns/pogs.

*You could even play it E6 with just the included material if you gave PCs a +2 stat bump (max 20) instead of a level-up after 6th. The monster palette might become a bit limited eventually.

As far as the gnay gnomes go, well my likely players will mostly be Gen X (from grognards to newbies) age 40-52, so I think I'm going to get my own back on dour humourless Millennial LGBTQI Seattle games designers, & go with an outrageously camp Larry Grayson/Kenneth Williams "British 1970s TV" Vibe - Shut That Door!

Ok. Made it out to Target while on a shopping trip elsewhere and they had it in stock as hoped.

Got it home and opened her up...

And I have to say I am very pleasantly surprise. Very much so.

Whats in the box?

First off, a full spread of dice! Not the half assed partial set in the starter of one each + a extra percentile. Mine are transparent red. It actually comes with more than the standard array. 4 d6s, 2 d10s, and 2d20s, plus a d4, d8, and d12.

Next was the adventure book. 48 pages of various adventures and 14 more pages of monsters and NPCs. At least one new monster, a spirit beast. Map key on the back cover. A good variety of adventures and there is indeed a pair of married male gnome kings. More on that at the end.

Next was this weird folded thing. Looked like a McDonalds french fry holder... It is in fact as I suspected... a folded up card box. As what follows are several sheets of uncut cards. They are though perforated for separation. Theres cards for initiative, status effects, Sidekickss, magic items, quests, and 3 quick ref cards for combat.. 9 sheets in total, 9 cards each so 81 cards. Good cardstock too.

Next is a map of the Sword Coast with hex grid. The map states the hexes are 5 miles each. The area is not all of the sword coast. Just the lands stretching from the Mere of Dead Men up to about where Neverwinter is. The back of the map is the town of Phandalin.

Next is the rulebook. 64 pages of basic D&D pared down as it only takes the characters to level 6. Races are Human, Elf, Dwarf, and halfling. Classes are Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, and oddly enough, Bard. Looks like the same basic backgrounds as in Basic as well. After that is the game rules, how advantage/disadvantage works, skills, general gameplay, environment, combat.
Then it gets into equipment. Followed by a few magic items. Even some new common ones from Xanithar. After that are spells, which is fairly short considering the level limit.

Lastly is something new. Rules for Sidekicks. These are NPCs, people or creatures, that tag along with your character and are divided into 3 sorts. Expert, a sort of jack of all trades as the book states it, spellcaster, could be healer or mage, and lastly Warrior, your all general combat types. And then some really really basic rules to take them to level 6. A bit more is explained on them in the Adventure book which doubles as a mini DMG. Sidekicks function alot like retainers did in BX and AD&D and are meant to bolster a party short on players.

Next in the box is a DM screen. Not badly done and I like the panorama on the front.

And finally a bunch of double sided character sheets.

And finally+1 is a flyer advertising D&D product and on the back are some codes for D&D Beyond.

Now regards the Gnome Kings... Honestly I have to ask... "What was the point of this?" it seems to have just been tossed in out of the blue and has ZERO impact on the adventure and ZERO explanation. One of them has indeed flipped out. But for good reason actually. But really them being both male is totally meaningless for the adventure. Its like the Vistani who has a "daughter" who is apparently really a boy, in Curse of Strahd. It is pretty much totally meaningless.

Considering the Rulebook does not have the same line on gender as the PHB does. It just notes that characters can be any gender and it has no real bearing on gameplay. Allmost makes you wonder if someone mandated a toning down of the SJW bits? Probably not. But one can fantasize.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarchy:

QuoteCorule is one of the oldest forms of government. Historical examples include the Pandyan dynasty of Tamilakam, Sparta's joint kingdom, the Roman Republic's consuls, Carthage's Judges, and several ancient Polynesian societies. Systems of inheritance that often led to corule in Germanic and Dacian monarchies may be included as well, as may the dual occupants of the ranks of the Inca Empire. Modern examples of diarchies are Andorra, whose princes are the President of France and the Bishop of Urgell in Catalonia; San Marino, whose republic is led by two Captains Regent; and Eswatini, where sovereignty rests jointly in the king and his mother.

Thinking about the Consuls there's *so much potential*.

I got the EK, but from what I heard it's more like a loose collection of location scenarios than an adventure, per se, and thus will be harder to run for a new GM than the Starter Set. I still need to read the EK and see for myself.

Quote from: jhkim;1103232I agree there's always been a tendency for D&D to reflect modern-day sensibilities and mores (like Lake Geneva and Seattle), which goes past the illustrations. Still, background details are pretty easily personalized by the GM.

I'd suggest highly localized sensibilities rather than modern-day. I'm confident the vast majority of D&D players don't give a shit about representation of gay or transgendered characters in their adventures.

We don't live in a world where half of society that thinks representation of trans-gendered characters in pop culture is a vital moral issue, while the other half of society are bigots who can't stand the idea of transgendered people. Those two camps are maybe 10 per cent of the population each. Most of us, the 80 per cent, have no strong feelings either way and just wish the culture warriors would leave their politics at the door when we want to enjoy D&D, Star Wars, etc.

WotC and Paizo do this stuff because in the very small, very homogenous social milieu they live and work in, there's a powerful social imperative to express a particular ideology. The D&D market of 2019 as a whole doesn't subscribe to that ideology and couldn't give a fuck if it's represented in their game books.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1103278I got the EK, but from what I heard it's more like a loose collection of location scenarios than an adventure, per se, and thus will be harder to run for a new GM than the Starter Set. I still need to read the EK and see for myself.

From what I understand, the adventures and encounters are presented as discrete quests, complete with quest cards. That may be different from the traditional linear narrative, but I don't know why it would necessarily be harder to run.

Quote from: Haffrung;1103283From what I understand, the adventures and encounters are presented as discrete quests, complete with quest cards. That may be different from the traditional linear narrative, but I don't know why it would necessarily be harder to run.

I actually really like this kind of adventure format. The players can engage or avoid specific encounters as they wish, and it gives the GM a lot of flexibility in how they structure the content.
I usually run at like random encounters, but each encounter is fleshed out to at least a page of details.

I think its the inherent meaninglessness of it that tweaks people the wrong way.  It seems to exist purely for meta-game political purposes.  It doesn't establish anything unique or interesting about the gnome culture and leads to a number of "Okay, wait, so how does..." questions that aren't answered.  It assumes an entirely "current year" concept of marriage and links it to an ancient legal system without any apparent thought about how this would actually work in practice.  It's more the political and cultural naivete that grates, rather than the sexuality. The frustrating thing is, as this thread clearly demonstrates, there are several solutions that don't stink of social engineering.  It just takes a little creative thought.

The gnomes could be co-ruling kings, as ancient Rome had for a period of time.  Their relationship could be entirely non-sexual and the issue kept purely political, for gaming with younger players.  

Or, for a more mature group: the idea of a serial male-male "dynasty" of older/younger ruler-lovers is interesting and solves the problem.  It introduces a weird dynamic to this particular gnome culture and increases, rather than decreases, the strangeness of the setting.

One could be the king, a committed "bachelor" with a very well respected high born "companion" who has now disappeared.  The family of the companion would certainly want to know what happened, and everyone knows what's really going on, but everyone also hopes that they king will get married and produce an heir at some point.  Solving one problem could lead the PCs to being involved in helping the gnomes solve their larger political issues.

Quote from: Brendan;1103289I think its the inherent meaninglessness of it that tweaks people the wrong way.  It seems to exist purely for meta-game political purposes.  It doesn't establish anything unique or interesting about the gnome culture and leads to a number of "Okay, wait, so how does..." questions that aren't answered.  It assumes an entirely "current year" concept of marriage and links it to an ancient legal system without any apparent thought about how this would actually work in practice.  It's more the political and cultural naivete that grates, rather than the sexuality. The frustrating thing is, as this thread clearly demonstrates, there are several solutions that don't stink of social engineering.  It just takes a little creative thought.

The gnomes could be co-ruling kings, as ancient Rome had for a period of time.  Their relationship could be entirely non-sexual and the issue kept purely political, for gaming with younger players.  

Or, for a more mature group: the idea of a serial male-male "dynasty" of older/younger ruler-lovers is interesting and solves the problem.  It introduces a weird dynamic to this particular gnome culture and increases, rather than decreases, the strangeness of the setting.

One could be the king, a committed "bachelor" with a very well respected high born "companion" who has now disappeared.  The family of the companion would certainly want to know what happened, and everyone knows what's really going on, but everyone also hopes that they king will get married and produce an heir at some point.  Solving one problem could lead the PCs to being involved in helping the gnomes solve their larger political issues.

Assuming WOTC wanted to create an interesting adventure, and not just say "He gay, pls clap."

Quote from: Brendan;1103289I think its the inherent meaninglessness of it that tweaks people the wrong way.  It seems to exist purely for meta-game political purposes.  It doesn't establish anything unique or interesting about the gnome culture and leads to a number of "Okay, wait, so how does..." questions that aren't answered.  It assumes an entirely "current year" concept of marriage and links it to an ancient legal system without any apparent thought about how this would actually work in practice.  It's more the political and cultural naivete that grates, rather than the sexuality.

Yeah, that was certainly my reaction - eyerolling at the "pls clap" as Ratman put it. The author doesn't seem to have any concept of what a monarch is or why this looks odd.

Quote from: Brendan;1103289The gnomes could be co-ruling kings, as ancient Rome had for a period of time.  Their relationship could be entirely non-sexual and the issue kept purely political, for gaming with younger players.

You know this opinion is considered hate speech?

"Kids can handle the idea of married straight couples without knowing what sex is, but gay couple are inherently perverted and not suitable for children"

That isn't the kind of thing that only SJWs have a problem with. That kind of opinion goes right up there with "they shouldn't be allowed to marry" or "they should keep their gross love life a secret"

It's anti-gay. Just admit that you aren't comfortable with gay people in general and that this has little to do with how it was depicted here for you.

/rant

Just had to nit-pick someone who tipped their hand too much.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1103296You know this opinion is considered hate speech?

I seriously thought you were being sarcastic - and I live in a country where we just had the buses banks & supermarkets covered in rainbow flags for over a month! I guess 'hate' is an ever-broadening concept.

Quote from: S'mon;1102858gnome 'kings' who are married to each other and co-rule in tandem

I guess they think a woman/queen would have been unsuitable to rule alongside a man. Bigots.

Gnomes are a fantastic race (in the fantasy sense) and aren't clearly based on a single real-world culture.  Most fantasy races have been cobbled together by throwing fantastic (as in, wildly strange) things on them and seeing what sticks.  

The 'fact' that Drow are dark-skinned elves living below ground dealing with a form of radiation that magically makes their stuff work (and that it breaks down when taken to the surface) while worshiping a Spider-Goddess, living in a matriarchy and that they have strict divisions of classes by gender is all because people thought 'this would be pretty cool' and going from there.  

Explaining why at least some gnomes have male-male co-rule isn't really the first step to building an interesting fantasy culture.  You can start with 'here's this thing' and then try to build to a plausible explanation for why that's a thing.  In thirty years maybe we'll all forget that there used to be a time when Gnomes didn't have dual-rulers and just accept that it was always that way based on what 'catches the imagination on fire'.  Or maybe this is the last we'll hear of it, and we'll be stuck with TinkerGnomes forever.