If your game table doesn't watch an hour of midget on midget man fucking before playing this adventure, you're all a bunch of hateful bigots!

And tenbones, you're quite right about WotC's selective view of "representation". It's just political pandering woke bullshit because its quite clear the "Gnome = Gay" is just as meaningless to the adventure as "Gnome = Left Handed".

Also, how does a workshop have one king, let alone two kings? These aren't tinker gnomes. These fuckers are gully dwarves!

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1108981If you don't like Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms, you can say 'not in my version', but you should ask yourself why what you want automatically trumps what a player might want.

Because I'm the GM.

The person who puts in the work makes the decisions about the game world, and that's the GM.

The players' decision is whether to play in that GM's game world or leave.

Quote from: Mistwell;1109223And in the 1950s someone could have written "And this is where the Communist Ideology gets its foothold in the door," if the gnomes instead ran a socialist collective.

This overreaction is ridiculous. The evil lesbians and gays will not be taking over the nation because a couple of fantasy gnome kings are affiliated with them. It will not snowball into something meaningful because it's outright silly.

Woke Ideology already rules the USA, so I find this a weird inversion! Conversely the Stalin-affiliated Communists had gone from controlling much of the US government in the 1940s, to losing power under Eisenhower, which being on the decline is how McCarthy was able to openly oppose them.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1109259Also, how does a workshop have one king, let alone two kings? These aren't tinker gnomes. These fuckers are gully dwarves!

That's my take away from the thread. The whole thing from concept to implementation sounds like a train wreck of sloppy thinking.

Is the adventure equally terrible, or does it have any merit?

Quote from: Pat;1109287That's my take away from the thread. The whole thing from concept to implementation sounds like a train wreck of sloppy thinking.

Is the adventure equally terrible, or does it have any merit?

After having read it, I'd say that it was terrible and has little to no merit.

Quote from: jeff37923;1109215I still struggle with the volume. Spreading out to a 10' square rug just makes the volume very thin.

Well, that and the king was attacked in his throne room by the mimic when it was a rug. How do you not notice a new rug?

1: A 10ft square area depending on the thickness, and lets assume it was say a half inch thick. would get you something with a 2.5x2ft volume I believe. So it fits for something that is currently predating on gnomes.

2: considering how lacking in the brains department some of these gnomes appear to be. Makes sense in context. Or just assumed someone put a new rug in.

x: I get the feeling someone had read the old Phillip K Dick story Colony which seems to be the inspiration for the Mimic. Except mercifully they do not seem to ever mimic clothes.

Quote from: jeff37923;1109290After having read it, I'd say that it was terrible and has little to no merit.

I would not say it is terrible. But for anyone burned out on any kind of Knutty Krynn Komedy Knomes... it can come across as a little annoying. Especially as prior to this Rock Gnomes were not resented as wanna-be Tinker Gnomes. But I get the impression too that possibly someone writing this section was, like way too fucking many gamers, fixated on the idea that ALL gnomes are tinker gnome morons existing only for the chuckles. And they didnt even play that up enough.

Such is.

Quote from: Pat;1109287That's my take away from the thread. The whole thing from concept to implementation sounds like a train wreck of sloppy thinking.

Is the adventure equally terrible, or does it have any merit?

It is one mission out of several. The players might actually miss it depending on what jobs they take along the way.

It is either very sloppy or a very poor attempt at a joke location. And it feels like a joke location. Just with a serious threat. But the writing contradicts the location. These gnomes are supposed to be important somehow to the area. But theres only 20  of them, down from 22 originally. The place is essentially a workshop and dormitory for a bunch of recluse gnomes. Who seem pretty open for a bunch of recluses.

Without any history on the place its impossible to tell the exact why it exists or how.

But again this may be another "make of it what you will" thing. Left mostly blank so the DM can flesh it out however they want.

1: Maybee they are outcasts considered a bit... off... by wherever they originally came from. This is their try at making it on their own.
2: Maybee they are a bit... off... and were sent off to this place to both get them out of everyones hair, and give them something constructive to do.
3: Maybee they are a bit... off... set out to make their own colony for whatever reasons. And came across this abandoned gnome workshop. The mimic is why it is abandoned.
4: This started off normal. But eating mushrooms grown in a wild magic pocket has left some, or all, of the new colony a bit... off...

and so on. Make of it what you will.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1108981My point is that the setting is provided by someone other than yourself, and they do what they want with it when they want to.

Are you seriously trying to claim that *anyone* that gets the wheel of the car can decide to do *whatever* they want with it - in PUBLICATION? You are playing very fast and loose with something I'm not claiming - and in fact I've drawn a strict distinction between the table and publication. Not sure if you're doing it on purpose... but it wouldn't be the first time you've framed your points this way.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1108981They can (and do) claim that things are different than they said and they've always been different.  Sometimes Drow items stop dissolving in the sun and sometimes a new race that never existed before suddenly has always existed.  It's usually termed 'retconning' and it's silly to complain about it.

Stay on target. WHAT about what you just said is political in nature? What about it has *anything* to do with real-world conceits invading fictional ones? What about what you said has *anything* to do any attempt and honoring the PREVIOUS conceits of the setting. I'll tell you: ZERO on counts one and two. And on three - they very much explained away Drow weapons "dissolving in the sun" via the idea of alloy quality. etc. It didn't remove the old conceit. It added onto it without changing it.

As for construing these things being the same thing - you're being extremely disingenuous. The Woke Agenda is in play. This isn't shocking to anyone but you.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1108981If you don't like Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms, you can say 'not in my version', but you should ask yourself why what you want automatically trumps what a player might want.  If your answer boils down to 'even though it is a fictional world designed to be a fun place to play in, in my mind it's a REAL PLACE DAMMIT and I can't bear the thought of inconsistent changes', well, the insane one might be you.

FORTUNATELY my players don't get to determine what *I* want in my game. As I posted - I'm not going to run anything I don't want to run. That includes putting dumb stuff in there that doesn't belong. I don't GM by committee but I certainly ask them what they're interested to see if it dovetails with what I'm willing to run. Beyond that: they can choose to play/not play or run something themselves. Pretty easy.

Quote from: Mistwell;1109223And in the 1950s someone could have written "And this is where the Communist Ideology gets its foothold in the door," if the gnomes instead ran a socialist collective.

What precisely do you think the inclusion of this ridiculous scenario is supposed to reflect? Aside from an embarrassing example of "pro-LGBT". Because I wouldn't find it flattering. Are you denying it's political in intent?

Quote from: Mistwell;1109223This overreaction is ridiculous. The evil lesbians and gays will not be taking over the nation because a couple of fantasy gnome kings are affiliated with them. It will not snowball into something meaningful because it's outright silly.

Who is over-reacting? I've posted *MULTIPLE* times in this thread that it's not a big deal. MULTIPLE TIMES. It's merely a topic of discussion. Who is making a big deal about it? I'm just speaking my observation.

As for snowballing into something meaningful... hmm I think it's already done that, by showing the door to those that don't really want to support this backhanded silliness in the products they consume. I'd say that's meaningful.

Quote from: Pat;1109287That's my take away from the thread. The whole thing from concept to implementation sounds like a train wreck of sloppy thinking.

Is the adventure equally terrible, or does it have any merit?

And under THIS premise (which you perfectly outlined) is the "positive representation" the Woke, so thirsty for any form of legitimacy, will accept as a score for their team.

Have at it people/them/they/whatevers!

Quote from: jeff37923;1109243Nice strawman.

Wrong trendy argumentation retort. The trendy argumentation retort you were looking for is whataboutism, not strawman. I did not accuse him of making that argument. I compared his argument to another argument.

Unless you mean the lesbians and gays taking over snowball. Which was obvious hyperbole. Whatever people are afraid of with this, it's stupid. There is nothing to fear from this. Our culture is not being harmed by a couple of gay gnomes in your fantasy adventure book.

Quote from: tenbones;1109338What precisely do you think the inclusion of this ridiculous scenario is supposed to reflect? Aside from an embarrassing example of "pro-LGBT". Because I wouldn't find it flattering. Are you denying it's political in intent?

It reflects nothing. And I don't care if it has political intent, I care if it does any harm to anything making it worth getting your knickers in a bunch over it. And it doesn't do harm to anything, so it is silly to overreact this much to it. We're what, 450 responses in to a couple of gay gnomes in your fantasy adventure?

QuoteWho is over-reacting? I've posted *MULTIPLE* times in this thread that it's not a big deal. MULTIPLE TIMES.

You do understand the irony of you posting many times that something isn't a big deal, and then repeating it in all caps twice. Right? I mean you see it?

Quote from: Mistwell;1109344It reflects nothing. And I don't care if it has political intent,

Well there you go. Other people do. /shrug.

Quote from: Mistwell;1109344I care if it does any harm to anything making it worth getting your knickers in a bunch over it. And it doesn't do harm to anything, so it is silly to overreact this much to it. We're what, 450 responses in to a couple of gay gnomes in your fantasy adventure?

Do you think those people perpetuating these political narratives in their products haven't contributed to the harm caused to other people in the gaming industry? Are you going to actually say that on RPGsite? LOL

Yes we're talking about one tree in a very very large forest. and that Tree happens to be filled with the very rot that is causing sickness far beyond the forest. And it's indicative of the lengths to which people will bury their heads in the sand over Intersectional Religous Zealotry and refuse to simply admit that very damage you're choosing to ignore in your statement.

I mean - we can discuss only gay-gnomre kings... and we should... but there is a lot more to it than just that. I thought that was pretty clear after 40+ pages of varying levels of actual discussion.

Quote from: Mistwell;1109344You do understand the irony of you posting many times that something isn't a big deal, and then repeating it in all caps twice. Right? I mean you see it?

I don't think YOU do. I of course do. Because you know... I had to keep repeating yet more because you're pretending I never said it. Right? I mean... I did have to repeat it to you. You see the irony of your supposed irony? You could just acknowledge it and move on - rather than passive-aggressively insinuate otherwise, or trying to make some nebulous rhetorical point that speaks to literally *nothing* I haven't acknowledged. Yet... here you are.

Edit: Note- you didn't answer any of *my* questions. Give me some Ukrainian Quid P.Q.

Quote from: Mistwell;1109342Wrong trendy argumentation retort. The trendy argumentation retort you were looking for is whataboutism, not strawman. I did not accuse him of making that argument. I compared his argument to another argument.

Unless you mean the lesbians and gays taking over snowball. Which was obvious hyperbole. Whatever people are afraid of with this, it's stupid. There is nothing to fear from this. Our culture is not being harmed by a couple of gay gnomes in your fantasy adventure book.

Sorry I described your disingenuous stupidity with the wrong term. I'll endeavor to be more accurate when describing the idiocy that you post in the future. :rolleyes:

Quote from: jeff37923;1109065... they are all tinker gnomes pretty much, and worrying about perpetuating their line is pointless because their lifestyle will result in an eventual pocket-sized gnomish genocide (they are manufacturing minor magic items in a wild magic zone ...

Someone could have pointed that out at the first and closed the argument hard.  I was on the fence until you reported it.  Now I'm completely out.