Quote from: jeff37923;1103694This is why I keep saying that if the information is not important for the adventure or setting, do not include it.

Bingo is your name-o.

Quote from: tenbones;1103682I'm still waiting for my Asian Gnomish representation.

Hmm. How about:

Three gnomes applied for the position of king but only two were allowed in, due to a new set of human-imposed rules limiting the yearly number of gnomes allowed to join the ranks of royalty; the large influx of well-qualified applicants from Gnomeland are making it difficult for humans to achieve any crowns of their own, in their own lands no less! Of course, the pressure to outperform the scrutinizing humanfolk in the run-up to the coronation drove one of the gnomes mad in the process...

Quote from: Omega;1103683You have been watching too much Pandorum haven't you? :eek:

Hey, all my ideas are original! Original! /shakes fist

Quote from: tenbones;1103682I'm still waiting for my Asian Gnomish representation.

Hehehehe. Nice...

Quote from: tenbones;1103667You walk into the throne room of Suzail, it is festooned with the finest Corymian decor, with additional handwoven carpets from far-flung Calimshan, bronzework statues from Chessenta, and draperies of the great Houses of Cormyr made of the finest Kozakuran silk. Standing on the throne is Fat Albert and the Gang, with Fat Albert wearing his Burger King Crown on his brow, held fast by a piece of half-chewed Wrigley's Juicy-Fruit gum in his hair. His chamberlain, Mushmouth steps forth...

"Heybuh Kibing Fabat Albubert. Hebere ibis yourba heberoes!"

With dimensional magic being possible in the Realms... there is *nothing* weird about this scene. Right?

So, you're comparing having a gay character to bringing in characters from other dimensions. Having characters from other dimensions requires dimensional magic. Having gay characters requires... nothing. They just happen. A rate of 3.5% is not very unusual.

In the real world, if I find out that someone is gay, I don't ask "Was there some kind of weird interdimensional spell done to you?" or "Were you bitten by a radioactive drag queen?" They're just gay. It doesn't require some special explanation or story.

In the real world, there were gay people in medieval history. Likewise, in the Forgotten Realms, there are established gay characters. Further, Ed Greenwood (who created FR) made clear that marriage practices were quite broad and libertine in the local culture.

Yeah, the big deal isn't the event itself. I have casually gay characters in several of my products, no one ever seems to notice.

The big deal is the Motive.

Quote from: jeff37923;1103694This is why I keep saying that if the information is not important for the adventure or setting, do not include it.

Quote from: tenbones;1103695Bingo is your name-o.

J: Not necessarily. Something may be irrelevant to the adventure. But there to give the DM ideas and make of it what they will. Or to give the NPC a little more life than just a stat block and a name.
Do I need to know why Diana the Fighter level 5 is wearing a cooking pot on her head? No. I have enough brain cells still active to come up with all sorts of possible reasons. And just because an entry is effectively meaningless in no way means that entry can not be embellished, changed, or whatever the DM or even the players think it can be applied to.

T: Wrong-o is your name-o.

Are you two really that deficit in imagination?

Quote from: tenbones;1103667You walk into the throne room of Suzail, it is festooned with the finest Corymian decor, with additional handwoven carpets from far-flung Calimshan, bronzework statues from Chessenta, and draperies of the great Houses of Cormyr made of the finest Kozakuran silk. Standing on the throne is Fat Albert and the Gang, with Fat Albert wearing his Burger King Crown on his brow, held fast by a piece of half-chewed Wrigley's Juicy-Fruit gum in his hair. His chamberlain, Mushmouth steps forth...

"Heybuh Kibing Fabat Albubert. Hebere ibis yourba heberoes!"

With dimensional magic being possible in the Realms... there is *nothing* weird about this scene. Right?

It only gets weird when Cosby the court magician slips you a potion with a little extra in it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1103644How is being a guard comparable to a monarchy, with lineages and inherited positions? According to wiki, the jewish population in China is 0.00018 percent. I guess that's meaningful in that there aren't very many.

Yes, that is in fact meaningful. For fucking China, the most populous nation on the planet, when considering the population of Jews in the world. Most nations have zero you realize, right?

Not sure why I am debating this with you any more though. You appear to have an odd agenda at this point.

'Fat Albert & the Gang' in Forgotten Realms, Contagious Bites of Radioactive Drag Queens... this is "campy RPG premises" gold! :eek: Keep spinning, lovelies, I'm taking it down in shorthand! :cool:

(And obviously the gnome kings should have been changed to an asexual blasian handi-capable enbi poly gestalt, you bigots! Subvert my expectations! /runs weeping, in literal tears!, to the safe space )

Dralasite Kings!

ahem.

The other possibility that came to mind is that this is some sort of weird nod to Dwarf Fortress.

Quote from: Omega;1103767Dralasite Kings!

ahem.

The other possibility that came to mind is that this is some sort of weird nod to Dwarf Fortress.

At least with dralasites there was some thought by the creators into making them gender fluid (they transition between male, female and neuter throughout their life cycle for those who don't know), which helps the dralasites to be actually more alien than the typical space opera alien with a funny forehead. With the gay gnomish kings it seems they put so little thought into the "diarchy" WOTC creates it can be undone by doing no more work than flipping one of the kings into a queen.

Quote from: wmarshal;1103781With the gay gnomish kings it seems they put so little thought into the "diarchy" WOTC creates it can be undone by doing no more work than flipping one of the kings into a queen.

I get the impression WoTC & Paizo see "King" as equivalent to "CEO", like Lisa Stevens is the King of Paizo (with her consort Queen Wertz). A CEO doesn't need to worry about producing an heir.

Quote from: wmarshalWith the gay gnomish kings it seems they put so little thought into the "diarchy" WOTC creates it can be undone by doing no more work than flipping one of the kings into a queen.

Quote from: S'mon;1103789I get the impression WoTC & Paizo see "King" as equivalent to "CEO", like Lisa Stevens is the King of Paizo (with her consort Queen Wertz). A CEO doesn't need to worry about producing an heir.

I don't have the Essentials Kit, so I'm not sure how they handle it there. But D&D has never had much semblance of feudalism. I mentioned the government of the Village of Hommlet before. I had thought that it wasn't defined, but when I checked this morning, it turns out I was wrong. The government is defined as follows:

QuoteThe elder is quite wise and greatly respected. He heads a council whose other members (in order of seniority) are --

Jaroo, the druid of the Grove (24)
Terjon, chief cleric of the church (20)
Elmo's father, Captain of the militia (2)
Ostler, the Innkeeper (7)
Mytch, the Miller (22)
Burne, the magic-user (31)
Rufus, Burne's associate (31)

The latter two are new arrivals to the council.

The elder is also the Justice of the Peace. Once each new moon, he holds a village meeting to hear ideas and complaints.

How succession works isn't defined, but it is implied that seniority is important for the council members. This isn't terrible, but it isn't particularly feudal - and seems just as modernist as declaring successors rather than having them by birth descent (which has happened in many cases in history).

Quote from: jhkim;1103720So, you're comparing having a gay character to bringing in characters from other dimensions. Having characters from other dimensions requires dimensional magic. Having gay characters requires... nothing. They just happen. A rate of 3.5% is not very unusual.

3.5% probability is *by* definition unusual. Being Gnomes on top of that makes it more unusual. Making them Sovereign rulers in a system that is completely outside their normal cultural mode of authority as portrayed in the setting for 30+ years - EVEN MORE unusual. Making them all of these things AND CO-RULERS? Yes... that's about the same probability as Fat Albert and Gang showing up through a color-pool in the Astral Plane and making it to Toril and taking over. Same statistical ballpark - which is close to nil. But hey! then that opens up the possibility of incompetent design AND/OR ulterior motives.

Quote from: jhkim;1103720In the real world, if I find out that someone is gay, I don't ask "Was there some kind of weird interdimensional spell done to you?" or "Were you bitten by a radioactive drag queen?" They're just gay. It doesn't require some special explanation or story.

That's funny. Because gnomes don't exist in the real world. But let's pretend they did. If you walked into America - and suddenly found out Bad Orange Man was killed and two homosexual Gnomes were suddenly made Monarchs of America. That wouldn't strike you as odd?

It's *not* that they're gay. It's not that they are Gnomes. It's not that there are kings. It's that it's ALL OF THESE THINGS AT ONCE. I find this equally stupid if they were ASIAN GNOMES and watched everyone like you pretend that wasn't weird. You're doing your obtuse thing again.

Quote from: jhkim;1103720In the real world, there were gay people in medieval history. Likewise, in the Forgotten Realms, there are established gay characters. Further, Ed Greenwood (who created FR) made clear that marriage practices were quite broad and libertine in the local culture.

Yes that is true. Gay rulers are everywhere. Gay Gnomish Kings? In the Realms? Precisely nowhere. They don't *have* kingdoms. But hey - I'll let that slide. It's context that I'm asking for. Thought that was clear. Context is always the thing for me (and should be for everyone that wants to game better)

But letting that slide implies some cartoony narrative bits have now slid into the conception of the Realms that I find silly and not useful. I have homosexual rulers in my own in my Realms game. But they have context to them beyond "just because".

And let's not pretend that gay rulers in real life did not have to go through specific lengths to justify their needs as if it didn't matter. For dynastic purposes it absolutely mattered. And there most certainly were political ramifications for meeting those needs or not depending on the ruler and location. Context matters even in real life.

And yes, Ed created FR (we all knew that unless you're doing performance posting) - marriage practices might very well be libertine in the local culture. That's fine! But it doesn't explain away the plausibility of the scenario in light of the rest of the Realms and how they handle these things historically in-setting.

OR...

Maybe the writers just have an agenda and/or are bad designers. Which is more likely?

Quote from: Opaopajr;1103751'Fat Albert & the Gang' in Forgotten Realms, Contagious Bites of Radioactive Drag Queens... this is "campy RPG premises" gold! :eek: Keep spinning, lovelies, I'm taking it down in shorthand! :cool:

(And obviously the gnome kings should have been changed to an asexual blasian handi-capable enbi poly gestalt, you bigots! Subvert my expectations! /runs weeping, in literal tears!, to the safe space )

It could happen! The D&D cartoon characters appeared in the Realms.