You know what I'm talking about. Spells like Goodberry that produce 10 berries that each can create a merry-go-round of people getting knocked to 0 hp and then getting right back up, feeding a berry to someone else, etc.

Considering how easy it is to get them, it seems like it'll just shatter any immersion with people walking around with a bag of them every day.

Is it supposed to be this way?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;861122You know what I'm talking about. Spells like Goodberry that produce 10 berries that each can create a merry-go-round of people getting knocked to 0 hp and then getting right back up, feeding a berry to someone else, etc.

Considering how easy it is to get them, it seems like it'll just shatter any immersion with people walking around with a bag of them every day.

Is it supposed to be this way?

I know you weren't asking about Goodberry alone, but with regard to that particular spell, a technical reading of the spell can solve that problem for you.

Goodberry requires someone to use their own action to eat the Goodberry, which one can't do if one is unconscious.

As some of the recent threads on immersion bear witness, folks have different thresholds for immersion-breaky-ness.  In any case, I'm a fan of tweaking things to how you like them.  I suppose the only gotcha here is if you have a player who is invested in a particular gimmick, and doesn't agree with you on the immersion-breaky point.  Things can get testy there, but that's a different topic.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;861133I know you weren't asking about Goodberry alone, but with regard to that particular spell, a technical reading of the spell can solve that problem for you.

Goodberry requires someone to use their own action to eat the Goodberry, which one can't do if one is unconscious.

As some of the recent threads on immersion bear witness, folks have different thresholds for immersion-breaky-ness.  In any case, I'm a fan of tweaking things to how you like them.  I suppose the only gotcha here is if you have a player who is invested in a particular gimmick, and doesn't agree with you on the immersion-breaky point.  Things can get testy there, but that's a different topic.

Couldn't another player use their own Action to feed the downed character a berry though? Same with a health potion.

The way that I look at, the more powers and abilities that the party has that can make downed heroes rise up without much trouble, the more I turn up the danger and peril. After all, if the possibility of death is lessened via spells and class abilities, then a slight increase in chance of being knocked out shouldn't be that big of a deal, right?

(For perspective, I've been running a campaign of 5e for nearly a year and have had about a dozen KO's but no deaths yet)

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;861142Couldn't another player use their own Action to feed the downed character a berry though? Same with a health potion.

Not to be flip about it, but if you want it to be that way, sure.

The DMG specifically mentions spending an action to consume a potion or to administer a potion to another character, so there it would seem to explicitly allow giving a potion to another (presumably unconscious) character.  There is no similar wording for Goodberry.

You could make an argument that one might give unconscious people liquids, but never solids because of the danger of choking.  And you could make a counterargument of "magic!"

If you're in the position that popping Goodberries into the mouth of a downed character to pop them back up in combat is goofy/anti-immersional/whate-have-you (and honestly, I'm with you on that), there's nothing in the rules to say that it should be allowed*.  

And nothing to say it shouldn't*.


* As far as I know...

It takes an action to feed someone the berry. An action is a precious thing, especially in a tense fight where people are getting knocked to 0. Think of all the damage the berry-feeder isn't doing for an entire turn for instance.

This situation doesn't bother me much as a result, but I'll admit a steady diet of Final Fantasy games has made me feel it's ok for mechanics and fiction to be somewhat detached.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;861122Is it supposed to be this way?

I think that 5th ed is a different beast from 3e and 4e altogether. See my sig for my thoughts on it.

TL;DR version is "It is as if the design team would have had an epiphany that it is not their problem what goes on in each individual gaming table, it is the job of the dungeon masters to even things out. This is a real improvement to the viewpoint that both 3.x and 4e tried to convey. “We tell you how it is supposed to be played”."

That is not immersion breaking spells. That is immersion breaking playstyle. And if the players are doing this on a regular basis then one would guess it is not immersion breaking for them.

I can just imagine players popping berries to save eachother while wailing to the heavens why god why!?!

ahem.

Is using a healing kit then "immersion breaking" what about listening at every door? Checking every 10ft square for traps and secrets? Anything done to excess can be a problem. And that is not a factor of any game.

As for Goodberry. An unconcious person cannot eat one as the rules for the berry specifically say the character must use an action to eat one. Nothing about feeding one to someone else. If you allow feeding an unconcious person one then that is on the DM.

I dunno about you guys, but on the face of it cramming food or drink into the mouth of an unconscious person sounds like a terrible idea - pretty much an ideal recipe for a choking hazard, or for something to go down the wrong way, or whatever.

Quote from: Warthur;861358I dunno about you guys, but on the face of it cramming food or drink into the mouth of an unconscious person sounds like a terrible idea - pretty much an ideal recipe for a choking hazard, or for something to go down the wrong way, or whatever.

I like the irony of choking to death on a magical healing fruit, but in practical terms it doesn't sound like a fun way to fix the problem.

Quote from: Warthur;861358I dunno about you guys, but on the face of it cramming food or drink into the mouth of an unconscious person sounds like a terrible idea - pretty much an ideal recipe for a choking hazard, or for something to go down the wrong way, or whatever.

I think that is probably why you can't feed someone else a berry in 5e.

Whose 'immersion' is getting broken? How? From the things you call out, this doesn't seem like any usage of the term I've encountered, but maybe there are details in the 5e version that weren't mentioned and might be more relevant.

This is why historical healing magic often took the forms of pills, powders or ointments.

Quote from: Phillip;861706Whose 'immersion' is getting broken? How? From the things you call out, this doesn't seem like any usage of the term I've encountered, but maybe there are details in the 5e version that weren't mentioned and might be more relevant.

Because you could in theory end up taking several times more damage than you could ever take just because it wasn't in 1 turn, because it knocks you to 0 and stops there.

You have 20 HP, you take 35 and hit 0. Someone revives you to 1 hp that turn.

You take another 35 HP of damage and hit 0 again. Now you've taken a total of 70 damage, but you're still at 0 and someone can revive you again just fine like nothing happened.

You take another 35 damage, and you've taken a total of 105 damage but you're still at 0.

When you think of it as in-game events it just doesn't make sense. Somebody's body is going to give out after taking that much pummeling on the edge of death.

As long as it doesnt take the character past their HP total. Yes.

But keep in mind someone has to waste an action stabalizing the downed character and if they arent fast enough then that could be the end o that character.

My personal problem is with non-magical aid popping the KOed character back up. Magic is magic - Spells, Potions, Powers - these things tend to defy natural laws and so arent an issue. Bandaging someone and having them up and running, even if its just 1 HP is ok. Having them up and down over and over can get a little funky. YMMV of course. Maybe its magical bandages?