Ok I am only going to post this once.

The RPGPundit said that there were people trying to destroy the hobby and I thought he was being overdramatic (he does at times have a tendency to do so) but in this case he was 100% right.

I apologize to the RPG Pundit.

Quote from: SHARK on April 02, 2023, 03:51:01 AM


I find it pretty fucking sad that 10 and 12 year old kids embrace RPG's with more fun, common sense, and maturity than these alleged "adults" that everyone talks about.



SHARK

I can directly attest to this. I've had groups of adults scream, shout, and throw chairs at me when they didn't get their way with the dice. I actually spent about 5 years away from RPGs because I couldn't deal with toxic players anymore. But man this game I'm doing with some kids has restored my faith in RPGs completely. If anything, they're starting to say I'm too lenient and demanding more death and violence in our current Keep on the Borderlands Savage Pathfinder campaign. I'm not the sort of GM who's openly hostile and mudcore to a party. So it's a learning experience for all. But these kids are going to terrify other GMs when they do more games.

Quote from: SHARK on April 02, 2023, 03:51:01 AM
I find it pretty fucking sad that 10 and 12 year old kids embrace RPG's with more fun, common sense, and maturity than these alleged "adults" that everyone talks about.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yep.  I have a couple of young players in my group and they are there for the game.  They don't know or care about people trying to turn a hobby that's supposed to be about having fun into something political. 

I don't and never would allow any of my players to do that in my game.  If they try they are gone.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 03, 2023, 10:46:54 AM

Quote from: SHARK on April 02, 2023, 03:51:01 AM
I find it pretty fucking sad that 10 and 12 year old kids embrace RPG's with more fun, common sense, and maturity than these alleged "adults" that everyone talks about.

I can directly attest to this. I've had groups of adults scream, shout, and throw chairs at me when they didn't get their way with the dice. I actually spent about 5 years away from RPGs because I couldn't deal with toxic players anymore. But man this game I'm doing with some kids has restored my faith in RPGs completely. If anything, they're starting to say I'm too lenient and demanding more death and violence in our current Keep on the Borderlands Savage Pathfinder campaign.

Hi, King Tyranno. Sorry to hear about the toxic players you had to deal with.

Over the years, I've encountered a bunch of toxic players as well. As a group, I think the worst that I've dealt with were some World of Darkness groups from the 1990s on. That isn't necessarily inherent in the game, but the games seemed to draw in a bunch of awful players. I also hated the tournament dungeon scene of the 1980s with competition to get the most points by "solving" the dungeon correctly, as well as some of what I saw in 2000s organized play like Adventurer's League - which seemed to cater to the worst players. I enjoyed Knights of the Dinner Table humor - which is mostly from mocking bad player tropes.

The place where I differ a lot from Pundit's points in his video is that idea that such toxic players who throw fits over PC death are a new thing, especially that they're a new thing that comes from young modern SJWs playing a fantasy version of themselves.

I think there have always been bad players, and players who hate PC death. There are lots of ways to help players enjoy PC death -- maybe that's another thread.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 09:28:43 AM
Ok I am only going to post this once.

The RPGPundit said that there were people trying to destroy the hobby and I thought he was being overdramatic (he does at times have a tendency to do so) but in this case he was 100% right.

I apologize to the RPG Pundit.

I'll do you one farther: the Woke Cult (and don't kid yourself, it's a cult) are doing more than destroying the RPG hobby. By making a cornerstone of the story-telling cycle the concept of not having the prospect of death in the story itself, it completely neuters the entire Hero's Journey by making it meaningless. Because without the characters going through the crucible of doubt, fear, the chance of death, it goes completely against what it means to BE a hero. This has deep psychological meaning. It's part of our existence.

To quote Capt James T Kirk "You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand! They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away, I need my pain!"

Kirk losing his best friend, his ship, were key components in his growth as a character.

Why?

Because he learned from those confrontations and sacrifices. He had a better understanding of life and appreciated it more.

It's part of his journey.

Without adversity, the journey the PCs take is meaningless. Now, I'm not saying that every single encounter should be wrought with fear and trepidation. On the contrary. But part of the overarching reality in the world the PCs live in should be "death is real".

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 03:18:44 PM
I'll do you one farther: the Woke Cult (and don't kid yourself, it's a cult) are doing more than destroying the RPG hobby.

To what benefit?  Once it's destroyed then what? Are they going to move on to something else?  Are they destroying it because they don't like others having fun.

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 03:18:44 PMBy making a cornerstone of the story-telling cycle the concept of not having the prospect of death in the story itself, it completely neuters the entire Hero's Journey by making it meaningless. Because without the characters going through the crucible of doubt, fear, the chance of death, it goes completely against what it means to BE a hero. This has deep psychological meaning. It's part of our existence.

To quote Capt James T Kirk "You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand! They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away, I need my pain!"

Kirk losing his best friend, his ship, were key components in his growth as a character.

Totally agree

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 03:18:44 PMWhy?

Because he learned from those confrontations and sacrifices. He had a better understanding of life and appreciated it more.

It's part of his journey.

Without adversity, the journey the PCs take is meaningless. Now, I'm not saying that every single encounter should be wrought with fear and trepidation. On the contrary. But part of the overarching reality in the world the PCs live in should be "death is real".

Totally agree.  I am not sure the mob is going to get 100% results with what they are doing.  But they may destroy D&D.  But then, there are other games people can play instead including all of the OSR games.

the Cult of Woke has taken hold of movies, comics, and games for the past ten years.
It does seem to be losing it's grip, but as you know cults can be tenacious.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 03:29:30 PM

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 03:18:44 PM
I'll do you one farther: the Woke Cult (and don't kid yourself, it's a cult) are doing more than destroying the RPG hobby.

To what benefit?  Once it's destroyed then what? Are they going to move on to something else?  Are they destroying it because they don't like others having fun.

Benefit has nothing to do with it.  It's all about control.  They want control of everything. Anything they can't control, they want to no longer exist.  For any given thing, they don't really care which result they get.  This is the first hurdle to understanding why it can't be reasoned with.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 09:28:43 AM
Ok I am only going to post this once.

The RPGPundit said that there were people trying to destroy the hobby and I thought he was being overdramatic (he does at times have a tendency to do so) but in this case he was 100% right.

I apologize to the RPG Pundit.

Well, thanks.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM

Until they DO tell you how to play, at a convention.

But they haven't done that to me.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM
Or at a gaming store.

Or this.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM
Or online in virtual table top.

Or this.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM
Or by designing products that have these elements built in.

I won't buy or play them.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM
Or by grooming a generation of children who will then physically assault you if you don't play D&D the "diverse" way.

I'm a parent of a 20 year old gamer. Ran a two year campaign for him and three friends and another dad when then boys were 13-15. We didn't play that way. Ran another campaign for a group of 20-somethings (I'm 58) and didn't play that way. I get my hands dirty and do my part.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM
Or by eventually passing laws where something you say in your own home could be reported to the FBI and they arrest you for Hate Speech.

We have this thing called the Constitution which has a provision called the First Amendment.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 02:08:14 PM
At what point in the slippery slope are you going to realize that saying "stop" to a gang of psychopaths is probably a good idea?

We can play this game all day. We can take any belief, trend, behavior we don't agree with and give a hyperbolic, apocalyptic spin. Doesn't make it real.

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 06:34:11 PM
the Cult of Woke has taken hold of movies, comics, and games for the past ten years.
It does seem to be losing it's grip, but as you know cults can be tenacious.

Well the problem is the things the WOKE Cult got ahold on became crap and the companies started losing money.  When they lose money they wake up and ask themselves "Why are we listening to these idiots?"

The Woke cult cannot lose their grip fast enough.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 03, 2023, 06:40:40 PM

Benefit has nothing to do with it.  It's all about control.  They want control of everything. Anything they can't control, they want to no longer exist.  For any given thing, they don't really care which result they get.  This is the first hurdle to understanding why it can't be reasoned with.

That makes sense.  For RPGS it only seems they have been able to get a grip on D&D, with everything else basically doing it's own thing.

I guess they want to destroy the hobby because with the OSR there is no way they can gain full control.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 04, 2023, 04:27:47 AM

Well, thanks.

I am man enough to admit when I make a mistake

Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 09:09:05 AM
We have this thing called the Constitution which has a provision called the First Amendment.

We have this thing called the Federal Government that creates agencies filled with unelected officials that reinterpret laws to infringe our rights and drop cases whenever they might loose in court. See how well our right to self defense, as guaranteed by the Second Amendment is protected by the government. If that is somehow different because firearms are dangerous or lethal, then the popular rhetoric that "words are violence" ought to eliminate that distinction.

"The fact is that those who do not see themselves but who see others, who fail to get a grasp of themselves but who grasp others, take possession of what others have but fail to possess themselves. They are attracted to what others enjoy but fail to find enjoyment in themselves."

― The Book of Chuang Tzu