This came up over on BGG/RPGG on archery in 5e. But it applies to melee as well.

By my reading Action surge just allows you an extra attack.

But another person is claiming it allows another attack spread.

So a fighter with say 2 attacks a round, uses action surge and instead of one attack, makes 2. PG 192 seems to say the same. Which means that Bonus action does the same?

The more I read over it. The more I think I was reading it wrong before?

Action surge doesn't give you another attack, it gives you another ACTION.

Fighters get up to 4 attacks for one action based on level.

Therefore, when a level 20 Fighter, using action surge, gets two actions, and each action is 4 attacks, so they get 8 attacks.

Its a pretty straight forward read.

I concur with the emperor.

Yeah, Jan's half-orc fighter archer is going to be pretty thrilled about THAT...
The monsters... not so thrilled.

The Action Surge does allow it as it is a full on additional Action. You can only Action Surge once per turn, however.

Action Surge
Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again. Starting at 17th level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 25.)

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 25.)

(edit note: Notice that Action Surge grants an unconditional action. That is really powerful. Bonus Actions are only granted as a bonus action, meaning they are conditional.

Bonus Actions
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don’t have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action’s timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
(ibid. p. 69.)

Do note how Two Weapon Fighting is worded in a nuclear (happens together), conditional resolution:

Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
(ibid. p. 74.)

It is a situational Attack action that grants a conditional bonus action. Note how it also breaks with traditional Attack damage resolution in the next sentence. This is a conditional action that produces a block set of effects. This is not a "regular action" that can trigger Extra Attacks. Unless an errata arrives from WotC Sages, you get 3 attacks, not 4, from Extra Attack (x2) & Two Weapon Fighting.)

Yeah, there was a brief debate about how two weapon fighting interacted with extra attacks. But we settled on the fact is says Bonus action and the limiters on bonus actions. So it just adds 1 bonus attack. Not your extra attack spread. Flurry of blows being the only known exception?

Quote from: Opaopajr;813574Action Surge
Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.

I take this as saying the possible bonus action is the one attached to the regular action, and not also an additional possible bonus action (that is, if Action Surge were to give an action and a bonus action, for a total of two of each). Are there any circumstances where two bonus actions can be taken in one round (excluding where one of them was actually an action)? (I wish they had spelled out the possibilities in one place, with examples.)

Bonus actions aren't part of your normal action; you can take them before or after your normal action.  They are completely separate, and you can only ever take one bonus action per round (unless otherwise specified somewhere, which I don't think there is).

So a 2-weapon fighter at 5th level (2 attacks) would get:

2 attacks (base) + 1 bonus attack with offhand

Using action surge:

2 attacks (base) + 2 attacks (base action surge) + 1 offhand


As far as I'm aware, the only class that can do more than one extra attack with a bonus action is the monk's flurry of blows

For the most part Sacrosanct is absolutely correct. I just clarified something in red, underlined and bolded the critical part, and explained they "why" of the last sentence.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;813589Bonus actions aren't part of your normal action; you can (normally) take them before or after your normal action (unless otherwise indicated by the effect granting the bonus action).  They are completely separate, and you can only ever take one bonus action per round (unless otherwise specified somewhere, which I don't think there is).

So a 2-weapon fighter at 5th level (2 attacks) would get:

2 attacks (base) + 1 bonus attack with offhand

Using action surge:

2 attacks (base) + 2 attacks (base action surge) + 1 offhand


As far as I'm aware, the only class that can do more than one extra attack with a bonus action is the monk's flurry of blows

Note, just like Extra Attack creates extra attacks out of the single unconditional, regular Attack -- but is not creating extra actions -- Flurry of Blows creates extra attacks out of the sole, conditional, bonus action. It is not creating extra bonus actions.

Further, timing does matter. i.e. Two Weapon Fighting requires the situational Attack to happen before the conditional bonus action (off-hand attack) is granted.

Bonus action spells cast preclude (do not allow) non-cantrip spells from being cast that round. However non-spell bonus actions granted by a spell do not count for this limit. i.e. Spirit Weapon takes a bonus action to cast, thus only Cantrips can be further cast that round. It later grants, for up to 1 minute, a non-spell bonus action to attack with the Spirit Weapon.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;813589As far as I'm aware, the only class that can do more than one extra attack with a bonus action is the monk's flurry of blows

Yep, Action Surge isn't so great for a Monk as they rely on bonus actions and Action Surge does not grant any extra.

Quote from: Skywalker;813631Yep, Action Surge isn't so great for a Monk as they rely on bonus actions and Action Surge does not grant any extra.

Action surge does grant an extra bonus action, it explicitly says so in the rules.

Action surge
On you turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.

No, that's merely a redundancy clause ("on top of...") to clarify what it is not. In CCG parlance we call it Reminder Text.

The standard allotment for everyone:
1 Action
1 Move
1 Reaction
1 Bonus Action slot (not filled until granted, hence 'possible')
1 Free Interaction with the Environment.

That sentence just reiterates the relevant material that might cause confusion. As it cannot relate at all to move, free enviro, or reaction, they are extraneous to the reminder text. To include both it would need to say, "can take one additional action and a bonus action..." before the "on top of..." clause.

Further, I cited the text above on bonus actions. You only get to use one regardless.

Also Action Surge would be unique (IIRC) if it was a situation that grants an unconditional bonus action, as the others require a situation or are limited to a condition (or creates a limiting condition, i.e. spells).

@ Opaopajr  is what you say an official interpretation or your take on it?
As to me it reads that there's an additional bonus action available.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I would just like clarity on your view.

Thanks.


{edit}
I had a look on the wizards forums here:
http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4111561
It's an older post going back to July 2014, but it says what you said..  no extra bonus action.

That's interesting and good to get clarified.  The wording is a bit ambiguous.  
Or at least it is to me.

Quote from: danskmacabre;813673@ Opaopajr  is what you say an official interpretation or your take on it?
As to me it reads that there's an additional bonus action available.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I would just like clarity on your view.

Thanks.


{edit}
I had a look on the wizards forums here:
http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4111561
It's an older post going back to July 2014, but it says what you said..  no extra bonus action.

That's interesting and good to get clarified.  The wording is a bit ambiguous.  
Or at least it is to me.

I thought that was pretty clear (guess I have played too much magic )

I house rule one thing you can take a bonus action instead of an action. There are a couple of things that list out bonus actions and it seems nuts that you couldn't do them instead of a full action.

Small point I know

I've been saturated in CCG legalese, so it's good to see where what seems like natural language (with "obvious disambiguation") to me really is not. It's easy to take one's environment for granted. So it's good you ask as I'm sure it's educational for future designers interested in conversational clarity, too.