Quote from: Opaopajr;767907~ I want spell casting in combat able to be interrupted.

I missed the analysis that said it couldn't. You can ready an action, correct?

You name the trigger, correct?

I name the trigger as "when the spellcaster opens his mouth."

The trigger action is completed before he finishes the incantation and therefore before the spell goes off, so my javelin/arrow/bolt takes flight before the spell itself is completed.

If it hits, he takes damage and has to make a concentration check.

Quote from: Saplatt;767968I missed the analysis that said it couldn't. You can ready an action, correct?

You name the trigger, correct?

I name the trigger as "when the spellcaster opens his mouth."

The trigger action is completed before he finishes the incantation and therefore before the spell goes off, so my javelin/arrow/bolt takes flight before the spell itself is completed.

If it hits, he takes damage and has to make a concentration check.

Correct if it's a buff/control spell. If it's a fire and forget spell sorry no dice. It's already plenty enough with the baseline concentration rules. Except we have no clue what tricks an Abjurer has.

My advice? What until the DMG is out before you start getting crazy with the houserules. And don't forget your yellow towel.

Quote from: Marleycat;767979Correct if it's a buff/control spell. If it's a fire and forget spell sorry no dice. It's already plenty enough with the baseline concentration rules. Except we have no clue what tricks an Abjurer has.

My advice? What until the DMG is out before you start getting crazy with the houserules. And don't forget your yellow towel.

I was going to argue with you, based on the wording of the "Ready" action, but the concentration rules (p80 of the free pdf) indeed don't require checks for spells that don't require maintained concentration.

You're right. As the rules stand, you can't interrupt a nonconcentation spell, period.    

Ugh. That's the single biggest problem I've seen with 5E to date.

One day at WotC...
Mearls - So team what was one of the problems with 3e we can solve.
Designer - It was next to impossible to interrupt a caster due to the 5' step.
Mearls - Ok, so we'll make it so you can't interrupt them while casting, period.  Great session, have a great weekend!
Designer - That's not what...
Mearls - See you on Monday!

I know, I know, we'll just have to wait for the Mythical Caster Interruption Module in the DMG.

Looking at Basic further, I am really liking my adjustment to Resting. I see that Channel Divinity abilities reset after either a Short/Long Rest. Though this effectively limits Turn Undead, I am OK with this for it mirrors parity with Arcane Recovery.

Arcane Recovery has a limiter of once per day, even though it is triggered by a Short Rest. By adjusting Short Rest definition it coincidentally conforms to Arcane Recovery's daily rate — and makes convenient parity with the fighter's, cleric's, and wizard's advantage. It is a bookkeeping convenience, and an interesting compromise between strategic resource management and those wilderness class advantages.

Quote from: Opaopajr;767994Looking at Basic further, I am really liking my adjustment to Resting. I see that Channel Divinity abilities reset after either a Short/Long Rest. Though this effectively limits Turn Undead, I am OK with this for it mirrors parity with Arcane Recovery.

Arcane Recovery has a limiter of once per day, even though it is triggered by a Short Rest. By adjusting Short Rest definition it coincidentally conforms to Arcane Recovery's daily rate — and makes convenient parity with the fighter's, cleric's, and wizard's advantage. It is a bookkeeping convenience, and an interesting compromise between strategic resource management and those wilderness class advantages.

No it removes arcane recovery. 8 hours? Totally useless. It isn't like ANY spellcaster has spell slots in the number of 0-3e. And it fucks the fighter up as usual by requiring everybody's favorite NPC (cleric). While screwing any cleric with the Turn ability. Remember BASIC is bare bones, no other subclasses, classes, races....nothing. I really suggest before going insane at least see the full traditional subclasses of the base 4/4.

Seriously Wizards are nerfed enough already when you realize even in current BASIC 46% of the wizard spell list is concentration spells and the the fact at higher levels you aren't supposed to be able to make those checks. It's part of the strategy and tactics for a pure magic user to decide when and who to buff or control. And the frontline who to attack or protect just like before 3x.

Quote from: CRKrueger;767991One day at WotC...
Mearls - So team what was one of the problems with 3e we can solve.
Designer - It was next to impossible to interrupt a caster due to the 5' step.
Mearls - Ok, so we'll make it so you can't interrupt them while casting, period.  Great session, have a great weekend!
Designer - That's not what...
Mearls - See you on Monday!

I know, I know, we'll just have to wait for the Mythical Caster Interruption Module in the DMG.

Ha!  You know, we were playtesting this incorrectly, using the ready action to interrupt casters  ... but the fact is that I rarely did that with monsters because it was too much of a hassle to manage. And while I can think of a couple of fights that would have played out differently, the PCs didn't use it that often because the vast majority of the monsters were using abilities rather than spells in any event.

So maybe I will take Marleycat's advice on this one and just see how it plays out as written.

By gum, you learn something every day around here.

Quote from: Marleycat;767996No it removes arcane recovery. 8 hours? Totally useless. It isn't like ANY spellcaster has spell slots in the number of 0-3e. And it fucks the fighter up as usual by requiring everybody's favorite NPC (cleric). While screwing any cleric with the Turn ability. Remember BASIC is bare bones, no other subclasses, classes, races....nothing. I really suggest before going insane at least see the full traditional subclasses of the base 4/4.

Seriously Wizards are nerfed enough already when you realize even in current BASIC 46% of the wizard spell list is concentration spells and the the fact at higher levels you aren't supposed to be able to make those checks. It's part of the strategy and tactics for a pure magic user to decide when and who to buff or control.

Nah we'll just all nerf the Wizards down from Human Torch level, and everything will be just fine, you'll see.  

Quote from: CRKrueger;767999Nah we'll just all nerf the Wizards down from Human Torch level, and everything will be just fine, you'll see.  

:Heh.

Quote from: Marleycat;767996No it removes arcane recovery. 8 hours? Totally useless. It isn't like ANY spellcaster has spell slots in the number of 0-3e. And it fucks the fighter up as usual by requiring everybody's favorite NPC (cleric). While screwing any cleric with the Turn ability. Remember BASIC is bare bones, no other subclasses, classes, races....nothing. I really suggest before going insane at least see the full traditional subclasses of the base 4/4.

Seriously Wizards are nerfed enough already when you realize even in current BASIC 46% of the wizard spell list is concentration spells and the the fact at higher levels you aren't supposed to be able to make those checks. It's part of the strategy and tactics for a pure magic user to decide when and who to buff or control. And the frontline who to attack or protect just like before 3x.

Again, I completely disagree. Previously, Wizards resting in dangerous wilderness areas risk getting zero spells. As 5e spell preparation brings huge flexibility, and are easily revised next day in mere minutes, I am cool with severely limited slot regeneration amid danger.

I think all of these problems you have emulate closer to the TSR power level I far prefer for my settings. The tamping down on Turn Undead was a surprise, but a pleasant one, as I did have some reservations of its unlimited nature from TSR. Essentially what you see as bugs, I see as features.

I think I might be done with hammering down the power level. However I still need to fashion a stat mod progression to my liking. I'm tempted to borrow TSR's stat mod progression wholesale...

With the magic system i think the key is internal consistency. If your magic system makes sense and hold up to inspection then you can start to to look at ways to tweak "balance".

For all my criticisms in this topic I must compliment how easily modulated 5e is so far. There is still quite a bit of houserule unintended consequences, as there's greater integration of mechanics across game facets. But I am familiar with that difference from TSR to WotC, and in a way I am at peace with sacrificing some discrete for some elegance.

If they can hit the DMG out of the park with solid modularity, this could definitely be my "2nd D&D" as a compromise between WotC D&D fans and I.

Quote from: Opaopajr;768024Again, I completely disagree. Previously, Wizards resting in dangerous wilderness areas risk getting zero spells. As 5e spell preparation brings huge flexibility, and are easily revised next day in mere minutes, I am cool with severely limited slot regeneration amid danger.

I think all of these problems you have emulate closer to the TSR power level I far prefer for my settings. The tamping down on Turn Undead was a surprise, but a pleasant one, as I did have some reservations of its unlimited nature from TSR. Essentially what you see as bugs, I see as features.

I think I might be done with hammering down the power level. However I still need to fashion a stat mod progression to my liking. I'm tempted to borrow TSR's stat mod progression wholesale...

Opa I like you but you need to understand why 5e characters have positive modifiers and understand 22 slots are half of what 0-2e wizards had or the fact Arcane recovery is only allowed for wizards and the spellcaster druids. Have fun with your silly solution but don't get mad when the DMG has a solution far less silly. Like Mearls said please play the game RAW before going totally 2e on it.

Good positive mods are critical because of the hard cap and bounded accuracy. Or the fact that the spells themselves are far weaker then 0-2e. I would murder any 5e wizard with my 2e counterpart easily.

I will play it RAW a few times, but I have very strong doubts.

Quote from: Opaopajr;768326I will play it RAW a few times, but I have very strong doubts.

Fair enough. Remember to run the spells as written and use concentration as written. My bet is that you'll figure out why cantrips are at will and things like Stoneskin or Antimagic Field or Finger of Death aren't "I win" buttons unless they're used strategically and only rarely tactically. They all need serious planning and in most cases someone running interference while you wait to drop the hammer.

It's far better for a wizard to Stoneskin the fighter or the life cleric to lay down an Antimagic Field and let the frontline types have at it for example.

You want to take direct action? I would suggest a different domain or a multiclass F/M or a Dragon Sorcerer or Blade Pact Warlock. Or a Skald college Bard.