Quote from: EOTB;1022551The absolute most important component to running a sandbox is that the DM is a content creation machine - and that they enjoy it for its own sake as a creative outlet.  Even if they're relying on published content exclusively, at best they have bricks they still have to mortar themselves.

In that case, I am looking for a paper version of This Old House.

QuoteThat said, I think the campaign section of the 1E DMG discusses the philosophy of sandbox play very well, because SB is what the DMG assumes.

I think it does. Having come from BECMI, then 2e, and having gotten my hands on OD&D, 1e, and B/X as an adult, I definitely understand why so many people speak of these things with such reverence.

I also understand why so many people didn't get the memo, how railroad adventures and so forth came to be, and so on and so forth, because as philosophical treatises go, these are pretty good. As how-to guides, these are not really that good, especially for 13-14 y.o. starting DMs who have other options. I was fortunate to grow up with a lot of people 5-10 years older than me willing to show me the ropes. I hope to be able to do so for my nephew. But at least in the near term, I hope I can find some good published aids. Thanks veryone for their suggestions.

 

QuoteFor content/idea generation, I don't think there's anything better than Mythmere's Tome of Adventure Design.  It not only gives tables, it has lots of discussion on craft.

Including this one. I will look into it as soon as I am in a position to purchase and download things freely.

Quote from: Haffrung;1022525I struggle to think of commercial products that fit this need.

I was just thinking this is a product gap that someone could fill. A system neutral book specifically on sandboxing and hexcrawling procedures. Starting out very detailed with charts and systems, and progressing into theory and suggestions.

How often do you see the young man?  Because really, the best way is to spend a single afternoon with him and just walk him through a few random outdoor encounters just like we used to do.  A little mentoring will be far more effective than any amount of reading.

After my GaryCon OD&D game four years ago, a young man in the group caught up to me the next day and we spent all afternoon talking about how to ref.  It really works.

Probably 2x a month, less so if you count only the times where talking shop is possible. This upcoming year with us looking for a house and him getting more involved with scouts and late middle-school, it might be less. I think that's the insecurity that is making me hope for a published crutch to help. But you are of course right, the best way to help is to show, and hands-on teaching, etc.

The best generators at donjon are well hidden and easy to overlook. They are under Fantasy on the left tab.

Quests:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=Quest

Dungeon Encounters:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=encounter;enc-type=Dungeon

Road Encounters:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=encounter;enc-type=Road

Sea Encounters:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=encounter;enc-type=Sea

Town Encounters:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=encounter;enc-type=Town

Wilderness Encounters:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=encounter;enc-type=Wilderness

Worlds & Planes:
http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/random/#type=World

You can fill your sandbox very easy with this baby!

My roll on Wilderness:

Ulflald, a male human bounty hunter tracking a gang of brigands. He has broken his ankle in a goblin's trap, and begs for help.
A female dwarf ranger named Irugg Hranidotr. She protects the lair of a great bronze dragon against adventurers.
The temperature suddenly drops greatly.
Shimmering curtains of yellow light dance across the sky.
A shambling mound of vines lurks in the undergrowth.
A male dwarf ranger named Thakam. He seeks to destroy a local tribe of ogres.
A great white hart stands in a sunlit clearing, watching intently.
A male human ranger named Aerelm. He has an animal companion, a hawk named Munda.
An elemental tree stands ahead, oozing acidic sap from fissures in its trunk.
Gili, a female dwarf herbalist collecting plants. She has found a copper ring, which she believes is magical.

My Worlds:
Brithone: A medieval plane of storm-wracked seas and forested islands, beneath a starlit sky. The plane is primarily populated by elves, with smaller numbers of other races.
Para: A corrupted plane of fields of flame and seas of lava, filled with decaying ruins. The plane is primarily populated by devils, and manticores.
Londolas: An elemental realm of sapphire water, filled with columns of crystal and the sound of horns. The realm is primarily populated by kraken, and nereids.
Essearnis: A desolate realm of broken hills, shadowed valleys, and trackless deserts. The realm is utterly lifeless and uninhabited.
Hellonde: An elemental world of sapphire water, filled with mountains of ice and floating motes of light. The world is the domain of Turgoli, a deity of oceans, and is populated by sea dragons. The denizens of Hellonde are at war with invading demons.
Tirine: A mystical realm of silver mountains, sapphire lakes, and vast oceans. The realm is primarily populated by trolls, with a few nymphs.
Vallione: A ruined plane of shadowed valleys, cratered battlefields, and poisoned oceans. The plane is utterly lifeless and uninhabited.
Sama: A sealed plane of barrier peaks and fathomless seas, where all magic fails. The plane is the prison of an ancient gold dragon, bound by magical chains.
Nyamene: A fiery world of black peaks and ashen valleys, beneath clouds of cinders and ash. The world is the domain of Galinduil, a demi-goddess of chaos, and is populated by fire elementals. The denizens of Nyamene are at war with invading devils.
Thimlone: An elemental world of silver mountains and rocky deserts. The world is sparsely populated by blue dragons. It is also the location of the Crypts of Chthonic Terror, a legendary dungeon of earth elementals.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1022620How often do you see the young man?  Because really, the best way is to spend a single afternoon with him and just walk him through a few random outdoor encounters just like we used to do.  A little mentoring will be far more effective than any amount of reading.

After my GaryCon OD&D game four years ago, a young man in the group caught up to me the next day and we spent all afternoon talking about how to ref.  It really works.

Absolutely this.

I think what everyone seems to be missing is that sandboxing isn't just tables of random shit.  The young man doesn't need to know any of that; that's what the tables are for.  What he needs to know is how to GM.  I think that Monster of the Week gives some of the best advice for GMing ever.  One of the strengths of the PbtA games is that it hard codes as rules all of the many things that successful GM's already do.  I've been GMing off and on over thirty years and there were many things that I just didn't know to do until I started reading through PbtA games, but MotW in particular.

Be a fan of the players.

Play to see what happens.

No NPC is immune to death or defeat (even in the first act).

Stuff like that.  Then the GM can take the most railroady railroad of an adventure or a sandbox and it doesn't matter.  The skills of great GMing are already there.

When should you make the players roll?

Talk about character death beforehand to see where everyone is at.

What happens when the player does [X] and I don't know what to do?  (Don't be afraid to take a minute or five and think it through.)

Or what happens when I as GM screw up?  How do I fix it?  Should I get player input?

What if I freeze up or get tongue-tied?



I think that whatever resource is recommended should at least attempt to answer these kinds of questions.  I'm trying to think back at when I first started with games like the B/X D&D (Metzner? I guess?  It's been decades...) and what advice did they give?  Gronan can obviously speak extensively on this.  Or the LBB Traveler books.  

I don't mean to denigrate anyone's suggestions here, btw.  It's all good, but maybe aimed at a GM with just a stronger skillset than what I'm guessing is being requested.

And this is in conjunction with talking with the young man, hopefully not in lieu of.

Quote from: CausticJedi;1022686I think what everyone seems to be missing is that sandboxing isn't just tables of random shit.  The young man doesn't need to know any of that; that's what the tables are for.  What he needs to know is how to GM.  I think that Monster of the Week gives some of the best advice for GMing ever.  One of the strengths of the PbtA games is that it hard codes as rules all of the many things that successful GM's already do.  I've been GMing off and on over thirty years and there were many things that I just didn't know to do until I started reading through PbtA games, but MotW in particular.

Sure, and in this specific example, it's a valid option.
But part of the trouble where so much was lost and had to be rediscovered through the OSR was that those experiences were not sufficiently explained when TSR published the rules for a mass audience. So while I do agree with you and Gronan on this point, I think having something like an OSR primer focused on sandbox and hexcrawl campaigns would be a pretty neat resource for new GMs and experienced ones who are not as familiar with the ideas.

Quote from: EOTB;1022551For content/idea generation, I don't think there's anything better than Mythmere's Tome of Adventure Design.  It not only gives tables, it has lots of discussion on craft.

Cool. I'll check it out.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1022701Sure, and in this specific example, it's a valid option.
But part of the trouble where so much was lost and had to be rediscovered through the OSR was that those experiences were not sufficiently explained when TSR published the rules for a mass audience. So while I do agree with you and Gronan on this point, I think having something like an OSR primer focused on sandbox and hexcrawl campaigns would be a pretty neat resource for new GMs and experienced ones who are not as familiar with the ideas.

Oh, sure, I absolutely agree with you too.  Yes, talking face to face is probably the best but not for everyone and not everyone has another experienced GM available to have discussions with either.  Having a solid written resource would be great; I know I've seen systemless books written on "how to GM" but for the life of me, can't recall a single one.  The ones I remember are all system specific which can be a turn off for many people.  Like I know well that many people dislike the PbtA systems so my recommendation would be useless for them.  Similarly, I would at least hesitate a good while if someone recommended me a book that was written for D&D 5e; I have zero interest in the system, zero desire to even play with that rule set, and so I don't know if I'd want to spend money on a book which I wouldn't get full use out of.

I like hoarding maps for those times groups decide to go off on complete tangents.  Google+ has been a great resource as well as Dyson's Dodecahedron.  That way I don't need to try and come up with mini-dungeons, ruins, or lairs off the cuff and I free up my time to make maps that are more important for my own game.

When I was a kid I liked to make a hexmap rolling up random terrain and contents using the DMG appendices. The settings made no sense whatsoever, but at that age one doesn't care.