Quote from: The Ent;774124I'm sure everyone knows about the Greek thing.

I like the barbarian = subset of fighter thing.

This is btw one of the things FantasyCraft got really right.

Its not even a subset of figther though its just a fighter.

A barbarian fighter would be a better way to describe it as opposed to a barbarian cleric or a barbarian bard.

Barbarian is more like Elf than figther in other words.

Also in your setting (and as I have stressed far too often too few DMs put enough focus on setting prefering instead some wishy washy default setting and putting all of the emphasis into one scenario or the details of one "hex") a barbarian may well be closer to a number of identified specific cultural groups.
Set your game in Ancient Greece for example and maybe there are Slavs, Celts, Bedouin, Moors, Vandals, Goths all of whome might be "barbarians"

Now a berker is perhaps a subset of fighter personally I think Beserk is more like a feat fighters may acquire.

Take the Cheyanne for example. They have their warriors they also have Contraries who are reverse warriors who do the opposite of what is commanded. They have a role not dissimilar to beserkers, they are generally committed to battle only as a last resort and don't tend to retreat unless told not to of course

Good points jibba!

Hm...didn't know that thing about Cheyenne. Thanx!

Quote from: The Ent;774307Good points jibba!

Hm...didn't know that thing about Cheyenne. Thanx!

The Cheyenne were pretty sophisticated with different warrior societies.  The Contrary Warriors and Dog Soldiers are probably the most famous.  The Contraries also had a valuable social function in instructing through comedy and satire, in a sense almost like a jester, in that they could get away with saying things others couldn't.  Some of them also had the crazy shaman thing going on, so as "touched" people, they were inviolate.

Read Bernard Cromwell, he goes into Briton v. Saxon and Anglo-Saxon v. Norseman conflict and has interesting things to say about Celtic and Nordic berserking based on a ton of literary and historical research.

The short version - Barbarian=Berserker is about one of the silliest statements you can make about either.

Now I want to make a bespectacled wizard in a vest and slacks from a foreign kingdom who introduces himself in refined Common as 'Nevin the Barbarian.'

Problem is....Dnd is about as historical as Star Trek.

Thanks to the movie "Eric, the Viking" I always imagine that every berzerker had a condescending parental figure who lectured them endlessly about the "proper" way to berzerk. Thus, part of the emotional fuel that powers the Rage is a sort of "FUCK YOU, DAD!" kind of thing.

Thanks to some history books I read years ago, I think of berserkers tripping on mushrooms.

Quote from: Marleycat;774985Problem is....Dnd is about as historical as Star Trek.

History is irrelevant, language and setting implication is the point.

Saying this is a drawing of a sword...

isn't historical...it's the English language.  Saying it's a sword based on the Roman Gladius "Fulham" type would be historical.

Lot of elves are archers, lot of dwarves are miners, lot of halflings are cooks, but
Elf=Archer
Dwarf=Miner
Halfling=Cook

Would be silly.
There's plenty of absurd incorrect definitions you could do, WotC just chose this particular one.

Icewind Dale, Ruathym, Uthgardt, hell there's 3 different areas a "barbarian" could come from in the Savage North alone, and that's just off the top of my head.  All of which now have all warriors who are some kind of Berserker now, because to WotC Barbarian=Berserker. Or, they aren't Uthgardt Barbarians, they are Uthgardt Ranger, Uthgardt Fighters, Uthgardt whatever.

WotC makes up mechanics and definitions FIRST, and then, if we're very very lucky, decides if these things make sense when actually applied to a setting.

4e...not so lucky...yeah.
5e, so far, a hell of a lot better, I will admit.

In this case, however, they went down the old road of pooch-screwing.  So, as I said earlier, meh.

What are they smoking to even allow that thread in one of their main forums?

Tangency maybe or Trouble Tickets - but in a main forum?

Can't they even see that it has (b) nothing to do with gaming and (b) makes a terrible fucking impression on any new visitors to the site.

Quote from: CRKrueger;775008History is irrelevant, language and setting implication is the point.

Saying this is a drawing of a sword...

isn't historical...it's the English language.  Saying it's a sword based on the Roman Gladius "Fulham" type would be historical.

Lot of elves are archers, lot of dwarves are miners, lot of halflings are cooks, but
Elf=Archer
Dwarf=Miner
Halfling=Cook

Would be silly.
There's plenty of absurd incorrect definitions you could do, WotC just chose this particular one.

Icewind Dale, Ruathym, Uthgardt, hell there's 3 different areas a "barbarian" could come from in the Savage North alone, and that's just off the top of my head.  All of which now have all warriors who are some kind of Berserker now, because to WotC Barbarian=Berserker. Or, they aren't Uthgardt Barbarians, they are Uthgardt Ranger, Uthgardt Fighters, Uthgardt whatever.

WotC makes up mechanics and definitions FIRST, and then, if we're very very lucky, decides if these things make sense when actually applied to a setting.

4e...not so lucky...yeah.
5e, so far, a hell of a lot better, I will admit.

In this case, however, they went down the old road of pooch-screwing.  So, as I said earlier, meh.

It is a one handed weapon right? It's a pivsticker right? So what's your issue again?

Quote from: Marleycat;775032It is a one handed weapon right? It's a pivsticker right? So what's your issue again?

The point is, it's not an axe.

or another way to put it...

Quote from: Marleycat;773761I do agree it should have been a subclass.

I managed to make a gladius in Planet Explorers (which has a GUI to let you design weapons, guns, vehicles, etc... but it's a limited GUI, so it takes a lot of finesse to get good results):

Quote from: CRKrueger;775033The point is, it's not an axe.

or another way to put it...

U Mad Bro? Seriously you need to relax.

Quote from: Marleycat;775039U Mad Bro? Seriously you need to relax.

You're the one that agreed with me until you didn't, for whatever reason.  I might say since you're the one combing through looking for every 5e critique you may be the one who needs some relaxation.