If everybody played 1e, forums everywhere on the internet would be very boring. If somebody plays 4e and enjoys it, more power to them. It's a game and it's there for fun to be had.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;561152I have a friend, we'll call him Steve (because that's his name).  Steve only played late 2e and then went into 3rd edition and 3.5.  He loved them.  Then, he gamed with me in our Original D&D campaign.  He loved it.  We switched to AD&D.  He loved it.  4e came out, and he loves that.  He has asked me on a couple of occasions to play (but time/scheduling issues prevented it), extolling its virtues.  He's excited about 5e.

Around here, Steve's problem would be that Benoist and others would tell him that he's only saying that to be politically correct.

I've loved every edition of D&D that I've ever played. The only one I haven't actually played is OD&D, but based on my knowledge of it there's no reason I wouldn't also love it. But that doesn't prevent the flak I get anyway.

Quote from: Spike;561278Are your eyes brown? I'm betting they are. You're so deep into your bullshit you can't even smell it anymore.

theRPGsite: "look over there! All those assholes that made fun of us for years are getting theirs!"

Mistwell: "That's totally unfair. Some of them aren't assholes. I demand you be more selective when addressing that mob over there".


It is a bullshit demand in the name of... I dunno... geniality? Some perverse sort of fairness?

Your summary is bullshit.

The assertion is that people who were assholes got theirs.

My challenge is that there is no apparent link between the people who are "getting theirs" and the people who "were assholes".

It's not that "some of them are not assholes."  It's that MOST of them are not assholes.  The assholes made up a tiny, but loud, fraction of the user base (just like here, and any gaming message board).  But you decided to call them all assholes, and when I challenged that, you basically said you don't need to BACK UP THE CLAIM YOU'RE MAKING (IE that the guys we're talking about are assholes who therefore deserve what they got).

No dude, you do need to backup a claim you're making when you say someone is "getting theirs", if it seems somewhat likely it wasn't even them who did the thing deserving "getting theirs".

QuoteTo whit: I'm reasonably certain I haven't seen too many people called out by name in this thread that haven't been demonstrably assholes.

The claim is that everyone who wants a clone of 4e, in that thread, is assholes who got what is coming to them.  NOBODY has backed that claim up.  No names at all in fact, with no connection to prior bad behavior.  It's not "some", we're talking NOTHING AT ALL.  Now if you disagree, show me.  If you think they were "demonstrably" assholes, then DEMONSTRATE IT (that's what the word means).  

QuoteNo innocent bystanders unless you count the smucks standing next to the named assholes... who, by rights, should know better than to stand with assholes if they don't want shit on them.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that someone named assholes in that thread.  From what I have seen, that's not the case.  Some assholes were named, but as far as I know, not from that thread.  Nor does "posting in the same thread as an asshole" make someone "stand with an asshole".  Here I am responding to you, a guy behaving like an asshole, and I am not "standing with" you.  There are other assholes around who I just don't reply to.  That doesn't make me "standing with" them either.

And the word is "shmuck" not "smuck", you shmuck.  

QuoteNo one is obligated to go forth and identify the innocent bystanders here.

How about the assholes?

QuoteBy all means, however, go forth and identify the poor bastards who are getting shit flung at them who really don't deserve it.   Tell us who WE are tarring with too broad a brush.

Given nobody has linked anyone in that thread to both prior assholish behavior and also pining for a clone of their game, how about all of them?

QuoteMeanwhile, I'll tell you plain that you've managed to elevate congeniality to the level of true dickery.  I'm not sure if I should praise you or damn you for it.

All I've done is stand up for strangers who are peers who are being unfairly attacked, same I would do for folks here if it was done elsewhere (and have done in fact).  It bothers you, I suspect, because you want to be able to vent at others, regardless of whether or not they deserve it, because it's about you and your venting and not who you're doing it to.  Which, as I said, isn't particularly Golden Rule of you.  You're not just being a dick, but you're being a dick in the very way that you complained other unrelated people were dickish to you.  You're behaving in the very manner you complained about.

If that's the Steve I actually know, no, I have never told him anything like this, have actually played with him and think he's a terrific guy. Which brings me back to you, Iain. If your thing in life is indeed a live and let live and we all got to live together approach, you are SERIOUSLY failing at it on internet message boards, because you come off as a smug asshole who wants to "teach a lesson to the intarwebz meanies" more often than not, this conversation included.

So you can go fuck yourself, hypocritical scumbag.

The day you decide to live by your own words and behave like Steve, I'll treat you like Steve. Not until then.

Quote from: Benoist;561302If your thing in life is indeed a live and let live and we all got to live together approach

It's not really that, actually. Live and let live sounds more like your attitude, that people should be able to do what they want and you can't say anything about it.

The flaw in my approach is reality, of course, because even if you have an ideal you know that not everyone will live up to it. Which means you have some dicks trying to walk over the people who are trying not to be dicks. And that's undesirable as well, so sometimes you do have to try and do something about it.

Quote from: Benoist;561302The day you decide to live by your own words and behave like Steve, I'll treat you like Steve. Not until then.

Oh, I've tried that. Honestly it often doesn't really help on the internet, as doing so at ENWorld resulted in being attacked by assholes like yourself (and specifically including you) for doing so. So there's you're hypocrisy.

Quote from: Endless Flight;561295If everybody played 1e, forums everywhere on the internet would be very boring. If somebody plays 4e and enjoys it, more power to them. It's a game and it's there for fun to be had.

Agreed. But the vast majority of 4e players aren't 4vengers but they are so venomous that it makes it very hard for me to make the distinction anymore in too many instances currently.

Quote from: Marleycat;561306Agreed. But the vast majority of 4e players aren't 4vengers but they are so venomous that it makes it very hard for me to make the distinction anymore in too many instances currently.

I think I have the same problem sometimes with regards to 1E players, from hanging around here.

Are there any forums with particularly venomous 3E and 2E players, so we can complete the set?

Try it with me, and you'll see some serious improvement. I actually challenged Mark in the same way months ago (Mistwell), and my opinion of him HAS improved. I consider him a good pal now, even though I still disagree with him a whole lot.

So. Show me you're not a smug asshole out to correct all the injustices you see on the internet, and you'll see our relationship improve. That's a promise. Keep up with that cheap adversarial passive aggressive bullshit you grace us with time and time again, and I'll keep riding your ass.

Quote from: Fifth Element;561308I think I have the same problem sometimes with regards to 1E players, from hanging around here.

Are there any forums with particularly venomous 3E and 2E players, so we can complete the set?

The Wotc boards? Actually there is great 2e board, purple something.  Most 3e players keep to ENworld subforums or open sites like this.

@Mistwell, how fucking white does your Knight have to be? Have you tried to post at the D20 subforum at TBP on a half regular basis?  It's a cesspool full of vipers and those current threads are Tangency ban traps for the uninitiated, End of story.

Quote from: Benoist;561309So. Show me you're not a smug asshole out to correct all the injustices you see on the internet, and you'll see our relationship improve. That's a promise. Keep up with that cheap adversarial passive aggressive bullshit you grace us with time and time again, and I'll keep riding your ass.

I do find this a bit confusing. You keep saying that you can say whatever you want, as long as you realize you'll be called on your bullshit. Yet when someone calls you on your bullshit, they're adversarial. It's an interesting double-standard you apply, and does illustrate how your approach to discussion doesn't lead to discussion but back-and-forth sniping.

Quote from: Marleycat;561311The Wotc boards?

Does that cover 2E as well? I've never spent any time there.

Quote from: Fifth Element;561313Does that cover 2E as well? I've never spent any time there.

2e fans are hated by all.  We must hide.

Quote from: Fifth Element;561312I do find this a bit confusing. You keep saying that you can say whatever you want, as long as you realize you'll be called on your bullshit. Yet when someone calls you on your bullshit, they're adversarial. It's an interesting double-standard you apply, and does illustrate how your approach to discussion doesn't lead to discussion but back-and-forth sniping.

The switching the tables routine aside, I'll take that as a "no".

Quote from: Rum Cove;5613172e fans are hated by all.  We must hide.

He missed my joke. Seriously, there is a site pretty sure the name is "purple dragon" is 2e heaven.

Personally I like it here better because I can tell Ben to fuck off and ask Drohem anything 2e on the same site.  That's what I call heaven.

This is the best general rpg site, pun intended, on the interweb. Hell, I can talk WW and Mage if I feel like it and people will talk serious.

Quote from: SneakyPete;561090It's not really a surprising. Ettin and his fellow tender warrior Cirno have made themselves quite the little niche of insulting whoever doesn't fit their myopic little worldview of what RPGs should be and getting at most a slap on the wrist.

Cirno's posts are sad little piles of pig poo.

Welcome to the adult swim.