4vengers are a well of delicious tears of unplumbed depths.

Fifth Element · July 17, 2012, 05:43:33 PM

Quote from: Spike;561199Its not even particularly a bad thing, though it often seems unfair.

Because: If you don't shun the assholes among you, you are providing them defacto aid and comfort by allowing them to remain members of your community.

Oh, bullshit. We're talking about internet message boards here, where anyone can join free of charge. There's no such thing as a monolithic messageboard where every poster has homogeneous opinions and attitudes. Even this one has some people who talk sense now and again, after all.

Just because someone joins my favourite message board doesn't mean they become part of "my community". I have no control over that, just as people here have no control over "4vengers" becoming part of "their community." Similarly, if some asshole decides to promote a game that happens to be my favourite, I have no control over that. There's no accounting for taste.

Mistwell · July 17, 2012, 05:53:59 PM

Quote from: Spike;561199Actually, I learned a painful lesson as a small pika way back in the late seventies, that 'Guilt by assosiation'... also known for the pithy saying 'lie down with the dogs and rise up with fleas' in many variations... is a real thing.

Its not even particularly a bad thing, though it often seems unfair.

Because: If you don't shun the assholes among you, you are providing them defacto aid and comfort by allowing them to remain members of your community.

In this particular case, the loudest 4vengers, strangely enough, seemed to have been (once upon a time) the very designers and company that made both games... making it particularly problematic to be a fervent booster of 4e without tacitly approving of the 4venger attitude.

So, sir, kindly take your dissembling self elsewhere with that ultra-nice guy bullshit.

So you ARE saying that by posting at that board, they are de-facto bad people? Really?

You get that some of them post at this board, too, right? That some people have acted as jackasses here, and none were banned that I know of, right?

And don't tell me they are shunned here - you have no idea if the guys you're attacking now at that board are also ones who shunned the people who behaved badly at that board. Unless you do have such proof - in which case, I'd like to see it.

So I'm calling bullshit. You don't hold yourself to the standard you're holding others to. This all sounds like "Guy A treated me badly, so I am going to treat Guy B badly out of revenge on Guy A".

James Gillen · July 17, 2012, 06:00:04 PM

Quote from: FASERIP;561000The term you're looking for is schadenboner.

Context is a big part of the amusement factor in this thread, viz. where it was posted. Rightly or wrongly, the other site is perceived as pro-4e, anti-other-editions.

This thread has been brought to you by
the number 3
the letter I
and the word schadenboner

James Gillen · July 17, 2012, 06:02:54 PM

Quote from: Melan;561074I love the character assassination campaign against Greg Tito. I also love how it stays unchallenged by the same moderators who would, and have banned users for saying marginally bad stuff about 4e.

As I said, with the Orwellian/authoritarian mentality, words mean the opposite of what they mean to the rest of us. Like "moderation." Other examples include The Ministry of Love, the Ministry of Truth and the Texas Board of Education.

JG

jhkim · July 17, 2012, 06:14:43 PM

Quote from: Spike;561199Actually, I learned a painful lesson as a small pika way back in the late seventies, that 'Guilt by assosiation'... also known for the pithy saying 'lie down with the dogs and rise up with fleas' in many variations... is a real thing.

Its not even particularly a bad thing, though it often seems unfair.

Because: If you don't shun the assholes among you, you are providing them defacto aid and comfort by allowing them to remain members of your community.

I basically agree with this. That's why I try to call out assholes within my community, and openly state that their behavior is not acceptable.

There are indeed assholes in my community who imply or openly declare that games other than their preferred style are objectively unfun, and go out of their way to insult games that other people genuinely enjoy. These people are fucking dicks, and I make no apologies about calling them on their bullshit.

Mistwell · July 17, 2012, 06:20:15 PM

Quote from: jhkim;561219I basically agree with this. That's why I try to call out assholes within my community, and openly state that their behavior is not acceptable.

Right. So, you can demonstrate that the people you're calling out now on that other board for mere association did not themselves call out the assholes on their board, right?

jhkim · July 17, 2012, 06:33:50 PM

Quote from: Mistwell;561222Right. So, you can demonstrate that the people you're calling out now on that other board for mere association did not themselves call out the assholes on their board, right?

Actually, I was talking about calling out assholes here on theRPGsite or on Story Games (my other main online community). I'm not a member at the Gaming Den.

Benoist · July 17, 2012, 06:59:17 PM

Quote from: Fifth Element;561203I find this line of argument to be an excuse for not thinking about what you say before you say it. Or not taking responsibility for saying something stupid and inflammatory. The point of discussion forums, presumably, is to discuss, not declare. If you want to declare, go get yourself a blog. Calling someone an asshole is all fine and good, but does nothing for discussion. In fact, it tends to either end discussion, or more often cause it to deteriorate into pointless name-calling and bitching.

I fundamentally disagree with that line of thought. It's the premise of the "keeping the peace" argument of RPGnet and "Eric's grandma" at ENWorld. I think people have a fundamental right to like what they like and dislike what they dislike. They have a right to post about it if that's what they want, which ALSO means they have a responsibility in the choice of their words, what they decide to post, or not to post, and the reactions they get in return.

For instance, I now know that when I post some things like this post here I'm going to rub you the wrong way. I made my peace with that, because I think you are wrong and think it's important to point it out now to not fall into the first steps of that RPGnet/ENWorld logic.

Aos · July 17, 2012, 07:05:58 PM

Remember to forget the middle.

Spike · July 17, 2012, 07:08:01 PM

Quote from: Fifth Element;561208Oh, bullshit. We're talking about internet message boards here, where anyone can join free of charge. There's no such thing as a monolithic messageboard where every poster has homogeneous opinions and attitudes. Even this one has some people who talk sense now and again, after all.

Just because someone joins my favourite message board doesn't mean they become part of "my community". I have no control over that, just as people here have no control over "4vengers" becoming part of "their community." Similarly, if some asshole decides to promote a game that happens to be my favourite, I have no control over that. There's no accounting for taste.

You are quite welcome to leave if the company doesn't suit you... which is, in fact, the point.

If in fact the revolution comes, and Posters at theRPGsite are first against the wall, protesting loudly that YOU were the lone voice of sanity around here will not save you from the guns.

Spike · July 17, 2012, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell;561212So you ARE saying that by posting at that board, they are de-facto bad people? Really?

You get that some of them post at this board, too, right? That some people have acted as jackasses here, and none were banned that I know of, right?

And don't tell me they are shunned here - you have no idea if the guys you're attacking now at that board are also ones who shunned the people who behaved badly at that board. Unless you do have such proof - in which case, I'd like to see it.

So I'm calling bullshit. You don't hold yourself to the standard you're holding others to. This all sounds like "Guy A treated me badly, so I am going to treat Guy B badly out of revenge on Guy A".

You don't like my brute force response to you?

Hey, don't lay out bullshit reasons for everyone to shut up. Consider mine in the same spirit as your post I quoted originally.

thedungeondelver · July 17, 2012, 07:13:02 PM

Quote from: Gib;561230Remember to forget the middle.

Yeah! Screw those guys! True Neutral MY EYE!

Declan MacManus · July 17, 2012, 07:19:25 PM

Quote from: KenHR;561088I'm no "4venger" - what I've seen of 4e sucked donkey balls imo - but I think the label is childish and idiotic.

Same goes for the earlier "3tard" or whatever the fuck they call them at Dragonsfoot.

I call them "3ggers".

Mistwell · July 17, 2012, 07:21:26 PM

Quote from: Spike;561233You don't like my brute force response to you?

Hey, don't lay out bullshit reasons for everyone to shut up. Consider mine in the same spirit as your post I quoted originally.

WTF was bullshit about my post? I explained why yours is bullshit, in detail. You just asserted it.

Which appears to be the same reasoning used to bash these guys - a mere assertion they were assholes at some point in the past, with the only link to that claim being they liked 4e and posted on a board that also has some assholes.

Declan MacManus · July 17, 2012, 07:32:56 PM

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;560954I wouldn't know, I never role-played that.

Then you've never role-played.

Why don't you stop suckling at mama-forge's teat and play like a man?