Unfortunately, NWN2 completely abandoned any attempts at ease of use.  While they'd promised up and down before release that they would make the toolset easier to use and include copious tutorials and help files, instead they dropped a massively complex toolset on the general public with no documentation, and an interface that is far less intuitive than NWN1's was.  

The one to look at now, I think, is the Ryzom Ring setup, which is far easier to use, and would make a pretty decent model really, the game engine's even open source.  Unfortunately, Ryzom's a pretty obscure game, with a very wierd setting.  It's cool as hell, but it's one of those games that's probably doomed by it's own wierdness.

Quote from: J ArcaneUnfortunately, NWN2 completely abandoned any attempts at ease of use.  While they'd promised up and down before release that they would make the toolset easier to use and include copious tutorials and help files, instead they dropped a massively complex toolset on the general public with no documentation, and an interface that is far less intuitive than NWN1's was.  

The one to look at now, I think, is the Ryzom Ring setup, which is far easier to use, and would make a pretty decent model really, the game engine's even open source.  Unfortunately, Ryzom's a pretty obscure game, with a very wierd setting.  It's cool as hell, but it's one of those games that's probably doomed by it's own wierdness.

It's open source?  I wonder how tightly linked the resolution is - so perhaps you could drop in a different rules set or something...hmmm....

Quote from: James J SkachIt's open source?  I wonder how tightly linked the resolution is - so perhaps you could drop in a different rules set or something...hmmm....

Well, the engine is open source, the game itself is a commercial product, and I don't know how much of the Ring's functionality is included in the source.

I'd recommend checking it out though.  There's a free trial mode that's not time-limited, and it does include a cut down version of the Ring.  

The setting is kind of a wierd sci-fantasy thing, with a really cool and alien art style to it.  It could probably make a good topic for a revival of Pundit's "WTF is this shit?" thread series.  

Am I missing something here? If D&D becomes predominantly a computer game, isn't that the end of new D&D being a tabletop RPG?

Quote from: CabAm I missing something here? If D&D becomes predominantly a computer game, isn't that the end of new D&D being a tabletop RPG?

Well, other than that the nonsensical idea that 4th edition "will be" a "computer game", that there are already several D&D computer games already, and that people are completely misunderstanding the role that the computer tools will be taking with the new game, I guess... no?

Just to assuage Abyssal Maw's concerns (if he has any about my posts), I do not think 4th Edition is a computer game.  I think they are introducing tools to facilitate play - particularly long distance gatherings - and that's about it.  It's no more a computer game than this forum is a computer game becasue you can play-by-post.

Also, it should be clear that all of my speculation and prediction on 5th Edition, silly as it might seem, has been based on the idea that it will be a computer game, but not in the way we think of computer games now - not even WoW paradigm. It will be, IMHO, the next step.

I'm talking about using the computer to really, truly facilitate play - whether that be around the table or around the world.  Essentially, everyone would have a PHB/tablet that would be the same $30 but would be specialized computer (like a Tivo is simply a computer with one task, or an iPod is) whose one and only task would be to play D&D. The DMG will be a software you run on a server, with a print version for "legacy play." If you go to an individual's house to play, you simply connect into the local network running the local copy and that DM's adventure/campaign/world (or one he's downloaded - a module as it were).  If you play via Internet, you use the same exact device, perhaps with a different interface, perhaps not, and you connect either to a public or private server running games - where you meet up with your group and your DM takes you through the game. WotC will sell subscriptions for players and DM's and sell individual group access to worlds and modules - but will also use the system to facilitate Living Campaign play that acts more like WoW (lot's of groups running around in the same world with instances for individual groups where appropriate).

That's what I'm talking about - and I think 5th Edition will offer books just like always, but this will be the direction into which they put their energy...

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, other than that the nonsensical idea that 4th edition "will be" a "computer game", that there are already several D&D computer games already, and that people are completely misunderstanding the role that the computer tools will be taking with the new game, I guess... no?

Keep up. Read the spate of posts predicting thats where 5th edition would head.

Quote from: CabKeep up. Read the spate of posts predicting thats where 5th edition would head.

Dude, I don't need to keep up because it's all obsessive groundless hysteria. Predict all the fuck you want. Feel free.

Anyhow, nearly exactly the same thing happened when 3rd edition was announced.

Flying Cars, I tells ya...FLYING CARS!!!  :what:

Don´t be stupid folks.
There´s DDO, correct?

It´s built upon 3.5, correct?

Will there be an update for DDO to 4th?
Maybe a relaunch?

I cannot see any reason why there shouldn´t be an DDO overhaul in the works.

Quote from: Abyssal MawDude, I don't need to keep up because it's all obsessive groundless hysteria. Predict all the fuck you want. Feel free.

Anyhow, nearly exactly the same thing happened when 3rd edition was announced.

Ahh, I see, so you're too proud to admit you took the comment you replied to out of context. Fine.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerThe problem, of course, is that what Hasbro's shareholders and officers want out of D&D simply cannot be had without transforming D&D from a tabletop RPG into either some form of MMORPG or a PC/console RPG series.  The differences in the media at hand are too great, and the understanding of both tabletop and digital RPG business are too little on the part of the immediately aforemention parties; Mearls & company are getting screwed, and the tabletop RPG world with them.

You and I may wind up on the same page yet.  Truthfully I'll hate to be proven right.  I mean I like to be right, but being right because the main player in the industry is jumping off a bridge to find out if the rocks at the bottom of the gorge are sharp?  Not so much.

I'd much rather see a healthy and well managed D&D lose out to beter game designs in the long run.  Than the entire industry be dragged down and burned with fire.