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4e underselling 3e

Started by Balbinus, December 02, 2008, 11:03:15 AM

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Balbinus

December 02, 2008, 11:03:15 AM
Scooped to a degree in the Mongoose thread, but I thought it merited it's own thread.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=557512

and more particularly:

QuoteThe fourth edition is something of an odd duck for us, and it is no secret that sales thus far have been somewhat behind those for third edition. The game itself is very different from its predecessors.

Fans are reading that as saying sales of third party products are behind those for third edition, but that's plainly not what it says.

Interesting stuff.

One Horse Town

#1
December 02, 2008, 11:27:24 AM
That's what happens when making up your own stuff for the system is pretty effortless.

Balbinus

#2
December 02, 2008, 12:17:33 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;270688That's what happens when making up your own stuff for the system is pretty effortless.

That's true for tons of systems, it doesn't normally stop a clamour for supplements.

I suspect the massive global recession may be a factor myself.

One Horse Town

#3
December 02, 2008, 12:28:17 PM Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 12:40:07 PM by One Horse Town
Quote from: Balbinus;270699That's true for tons of systems, it doesn't normally stop a clamour for supplements.


Absolutely. However, tonnes of systems aren't d&d 3e.

Nicephorus

#4
December 02, 2008, 12:28:27 PM
There are definitely fewer supplements.  Part of that might be fewer get rich quick schemes of crappy D20 products, which Mongoose was a big part of with 3E.  More companies ahve realized that it's not worth doing unless they are serious about it. The lack of a truly open OGL probably scared people off as well.  But a horde of questionable supplements, many of which were competing products instead of D&D supplements didn't help wotc all that much.
 
There seems to be less buzz  post release than there was with 3E, but that could be my imagination.
 
I suspect that total 4e wotc sales are lower than wotc 3e sales were.  But I haven't seen any hard numbers, so I'm hesistant to make much of it.

StormBringer

#5
December 02, 2008, 12:31:17 PM
I must be somewhat dense.  I didn't see any replies on Mongoose that said anything about 4e, and I don't know what thread over here scooped this announcement where people are talking about this.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

\'Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I have no concern for it, but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.\'
- Thomas Paine
\'Everything doesn\'t need

Nicephorus

#6
December 02, 2008, 12:49:11 PM
In the Mathew Sprange post linked at the top of the other thread, Sprange wrote:
"The fourth edition is something of an odd duck for us, and it is no secret that sales thus far have been somewhat behind those for third edition. The game itself is very different from its predecessors. "
 
Presumedly, he had enough connections to have some numbers from distributors but he's not likely to have exact overall sales numbers.

Spinachcat

#7
December 02, 2008, 01:51:55 PM
It is doubtful that the RPG industry will ever spring back to pre-WoW numbers. Too much of the fanbase has vanished and WotC failed with 3e and 4e to market effectively to teens.   Each edition is just recycling buyers of the last edition with minimal new blood, but lots of loss of old blood.

Nicephorus

#8
December 02, 2008, 02:05:34 PM
I got the impression that 3e brought in a fair amount of new blood, though old players still accounted for well over half the players. Quite a few of the ENWorld and WOTC forum members had 3e as their first game.

Ian Absentia

#9
December 02, 2008, 02:09:10 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;270723It is doubtful that the RPG industry will ever spring back to pre-WoW numbers. Too much of the fanbase has vanished and WotC failed with 3e and 4e to market effectively to teens.   Each edition is just recycling buyers of the last edition with minimal new blood, but lots of loss of old blood.
Isn't that the sort of complaint that's made every decade or so, though?  The core market is lost to another medium and the industry limps along by selling and re-selling to the same old hobbyist diehards.  Sooner or later, someone (maybe WotC) will come out with a gaming product that will reinvigorate the hobby, probably coinciding with an upturn in the general worldwide economic forecast, and a new standard will be set for sales numbers.  4e just wasn't the blockbuster it was hoped to be, for a variety of factors.

!i!

TheShadow

#10
December 02, 2008, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;270731Sooner or later, someone (maybe WotC) will come out with a gaming product that will reinvigorate the hobby, probably coinciding with an upturn in the general worldwide economic forecast, and a new standard will be set for sales numbers.  

Yep, just as happened with the wargaming hobby. After acquiring SPI, TSR spend millions on developing a new generation of wargame, used its clout to put it in stores, and the rest was history.

Or something like that.
You can shake your fists at the sky. You can do a rain dance. You can ignore the clouds completely. But none of them move the clouds.

- Dave "The Inexorable" Noonan solicits community feedback before 4e\'s release

Ian Absentia

#11
December 02, 2008, 06:54:02 PM
Smartass cynic. :p

!i!

JongWK

#12
December 02, 2008, 08:00:38 PM
Quality issues aside, I don't think the economy is helping.
"I give the gift of endless imagination."
~~Gary Gygax (1938 - 2008)

StormBringer

#13
December 02, 2008, 09:32:11 PM
I had always heard that the entertainment industry does as well or better in times of economic crisis.  Escapism is always popular, but never so much as when there is plenty to escape from.  Plus the dollar-to-time ratio is often quite a bit better than other purchases.  Black Friday reports claim a 7% increase over last year, and I would assume a fair bit of that is entertainment dollars, such as DVDs, video games, and so on.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

\'Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I have no concern for it, but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.\'
- Thomas Paine
\'Everything doesn\'t need

jgants

#14
December 02, 2008, 11:44:48 PM
Quote from: StormBringer;270803I had always heard that the entertainment industry does as well or better in times of economic crisis.  Escapism is always popular, but never so much as when there is plenty to escape from.  Plus the dollar-to-time ratio is often quite a bit better than other purchases.  Black Friday reports claim a 7% increase over last year, and I would assume a fair bit of that is entertainment dollars, such as DVDs, video games, and so on.

I can see that.

But don't forget that many of the RPG producers, printers, distributors, and retailers may be relying on credit in order to keep product moving (and unlike the big industries of video games and movies, they don't have nearly as big of pockets).  If that's the case, the tightening of the credit market could be more than enough to offset the increase in consumer demand.
Now Prepping: One-shot adventures for Coriolis, RuneQuest (classic), Numenera, 7th Sea 2nd edition, and Adventures in Middle-Earth.

Recently Ended: Palladium Fantasy - Warlords of the Wastelands: A fantasy campaign beginning in the Baalgor Wastelands, where characters emerge from the oppressive kingdom of the giants. Read about it here.
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