Quote from: StormBringer;261892The fuck?

Seen it happen. I usually DMed, but occasionally I wanted to play and one of my players would try his hand at DMing. Very inexperienced, but he actually wasn't that bad a DM overall. He had Asmodeus show up when our PCs were 1st level. No illusion. It was the Big A himself. It was actually kinda fun in a horrifying way. Sure, it was a "WTF?!?" moment, but it's stuck with me for 25 years or so, so I can't say it ruined my play experience.

I've always liked wandering monsters. What I did to save time, though, was determine ahead of time exactly what critters or other types of encounters would show up, then determine when and where they showed up randomly during the game. I put the stats on index cards and kept them ready. I just recently unearthed some of these cards while cleaning out stuff at my parents' place. They ranged from lost mules laden with supplies to skeletons to the Ghostbusters to a potion dispensing machine that looked like a Coke machine.

Quote from: StormBringer;262019Because everyone else in the thread related an anecdote that was clearly intended to show that Orcus on level 1 reached a new level of fucked-up, and claims that it was common in anyway were equally fucked-up.

Certainly not commonplace, no, and yes, it was fucked up (though fun at times). Over the years, I've heard of such stuff happening in various groups, and have seen even more such reports with the advent of the internet. It's all anecdotal, sure, but apparently it happened enough to become a trope - much like the tales of groups plowing through Deities & Demigods like it was the Monster Manual. I'd always assumed that was unique to my group until I went online almost ten years ago now and ran across a number of other people relating the exact same thing happening in their groups. I'd guess it must be a solid minority of groups that had such things happen, especially the younger ones.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;262306+7 works, if it's +5 and bane. Maces can have sharp edges - Add magic and Vorpal isn't impossible.

Back Then (tm), a +7 weapon was considered utterly ridiculous. Guess times have changed.

Depends on the campaign Melan. I saw many such things back in the day. Especially in the free wheeling junior high period of the very late 70's. FWIW, I have yet to give away any magic items whilst using 4e.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;262319Certainly not commonplace, no, and yes, it was fucked up (though fun at times). Over the years, I've heard of such stuff happening in various groups, and have seen even more such reports with the advent of the internet. It's all anecdotal, sure, but apparently it happened enough to become a trope - much like the tales of groups plowing through Deities & Demigods like it was the Monster Manual. I'd always assumed that was unique to my group until I went online almost ten years ago now and ran across a number of other people relating the exact same thing happening in their groups. I'd guess it must be a solid minority of groups that had such things happen, especially the younger ones.

That kind of thing makes my brain hurt.  I know tales of killing Thor with a push spell from Dragon magazine and such, but the wandering monster deal is something new.

Which turns the question itself rather around:  For the groups who were encountering Demogorgon and Orcus playing poker with Tiamat and Thor on the first level, were they necessarily complaining about it?  I don't doubt some were having great fun at the time, and others were groaning at the thought of rolling up more characters for the third time that session.

All in all, though, I don't see this as an indictment of the concept of wandering monsters as a whole.

Quote from: StormBringer;262244So, no point to make either, then?  Not even going to try to expand on the 'culture of play'?

You could lack the courage of your convictions, but you have none.  Just this latest ploy to appear thoughtful, and oh so 'too cool for school'.

Please, display this vast intellectual honestly, and make something like an argument.

You're not only a troll, you're a troll who can't use the search function on these forums. I'm not going to waste my time talking with an idiot.

I though that was the entire point of the internet.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;262397You're not only a troll, you're a troll who can't use the search function on these forums. I'm not going to waste my time talking with an idiot.

In other words, you don't really have anything to offer the discussion.

I only wish that were surprising.

Quote from: StormBringer;262400In other words, you don't really have anything to offer the discussion.

I only wish that were surprising.

Actually, I've got quite a bit to say, just not to you troll. I've already proposed a way of integrating short rests and wandering monsters in 4e. Should you ever try 4e, instead of just complaining about it vociferously on the internet, you might even want to try my method.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;262404Actually, I've got quite a bit to say, just not to you troll. I've already proposed a way of integrating short rests and wandering monsters in 4e. Should you ever try 4e, instead of just complaining about it vociferously on the internet, you might even want to try my method.

Then point to that thread and shut your cockholster.  Despite your protestations to the contrary, you have been quite interested in maintaining this conversation with me in particular.  Of course, your interest has nothing to do with engaging in this conversation, but simply to demonstrate your pseudo-intellectual superiority.

As to the conversation in general, I am awaiting something more to 'culture of play' than 'learn the rules and talk about them'.  Unless you agree with that definition, in which case, I won't need to peruse any other of your drooling ramblings, as they will be as useless to any kind of discussion as your current involvement.

And in case I forgot, you are a douchebag.

Quote from: StormBringer;262388All in all, though, I don't see this as an indictment of the concept of wandering monsters as a whole.

To be clear, the "demogorgon on level one" article and the "re-inventing wandering monsters" article were in different blog entries. In my OP I cited them not as a means to link them, but as two different instances of design bits (being "wandering monsters" and "noncombat powers of powerful monsters") that were IMO carelessly discarded from the ruleset, and saw the fact a designer addressed these two "bits that got axed under his watch" in his blog  as somewhat interesting.

Quote from: StormBringer;262407Then point to that thread and shut your cockholster.

It was on this very thread.

QuoteDespite your protestations to the contrary, you have been quite interested in maintaining this conversation with me in particular.  Of course, your interest has nothing to do with engaging in this conversation, but simply to demonstrate your pseudo-intellectual superiority.

What "conversation"? We've already established that you have severe problems with reading comprehension and basic reasoning skills, have a limited and deficient understanding of how 4e is played, and have trouble confusing the rules of the game as written with Mike Mearls' toss-off ideas in his personal blog.

QuoteAs to the conversation in general, I am awaiting something more to 'culture of play' than 'learn the rules and talk about them'.  Unless you agree with that definition, in which case, I won't need to peruse any other of your drooling ramblings, as they will be as useless to any kind of discussion as your current involvement.

That's a rather tortuous way of saying that you don't know how to use the search function.

QuoteAnd in case I forgot, you are a douchebag.

That remains the single lamest verbal tic on these forums.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;262408To be clear, the "demogorgon on level one" article and the "re-inventing wandering monsters" article were in different blog entries. In my OP I cited them not as a means to link them, but as two different instances of design bits (being "wandering monsters" and "noncombat powers of powerful monsters") that were IMO carelessly discarded from the ruleset, and saw the fact a designer addressed these two "bits that got axed under his watch" in his blog  as somewhat interesting.

Certainly.  However, what I find even more interesting is at one point excoriating the 1st level Orcus notion, he thereafter posits the idea of using Orcus with 1st level characters as a skill challenge.  Which carries its own problems, as noted by Mr. Wilen previously.  Of course, the skill challenge idea also fails to address the idea of wandering monsters, rather presenting it as a kind of 'wandering skill challenge'.

Quote from: StormBringer;262413Certainly.  However, what I find even more interesting is at one point excoriating the 1st level Orcus notion, he thereafter posits the idea of using Orcus with 1st level characters as a skill challenge.  Which carries its own problems, as noted by Mr. Wilen previously.  Of course, the skill challenge idea also fails to address the idea of wandering monsters, rather presenting it as a kind of 'wandering skill challenge'.

That's because you're confusing two different blog entries.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;262411It was on this very thread.

I hope you aren't referring to this:

QuoteIf you will recall our conversations right after 4e came out: As I said I hoped would happen, we are seeing a very vibrant "culture of play" emerge in 4e. The only people who seem to be hanging off of Mearls' every word are people who are not playing the game (Stormbringer, for example, appears to read Mearls' blog frequently; I, who play 4e weekly, don't pay attention to it in the slightest).

It took my group two sessions into our "We're going to play everything by the book to get a feel for it" campaign before we were already making rulings, fiddling with the encounter system and adapting the skill challenge system in ways amenable to our preferred style of play. We are by no means exceptional, as the testimony of 4e players all over the internet is demonstrating.

Because that is in the top ten mealy-mouthed 'too cool for school' exercises in masturbation.  Your whole point of 'culture of play' is 'learn the rules and talk about them'.  You tweaked a few things here and there.  Whoopty-shit.  Were you expecting a medal of some kind?

Especially in your case, 'more words' does not equal 'more content'.

QuoteWhat "conversation"? We've already established that you have severe problems with reading comprehension and basic reasoning skills, have a limited and deficient understanding of how 4e is played, and have trouble confusing the rules of the game as written with Mike Mearls' toss-off ideas in his personal blog.

Yes, but you are still describing my actions rather than engaging the thread.  Douchebag.

QuoteThat's a rather tortuous way of saying that you don't know how to use the search function.

No, it's a rather direct way of saying your diarrheaic self-aggrandizement isn't worth searching for.

QuoteThat remains the single lamest verbal tic on these forums.

Not as long as the archive keeps everything you have posted.