[4e] So.. is it in there?

RPGPundit · May 28, 2008, 05:18:02 PM

Well, what about "Rule 0"?

There had been some considerable debate here earlier about people claiming that surely the new edition would have some variety of a "rule 0" (where the GM has the final authority, over and above the rules themselves); a position they argued mostly (I argued) out of blind optimism, given that everything in the previews seemed to indicate that the GMs were strongly limited in their authority in the game.

I know some of you have already seen the PHB and DMG... so, who was right? Is a rule 0 in there or not?

RPGPundit

Ian Absentia · May 28, 2008, 05:21:15 PM

Not sure, though it seems they included The Monarda Law from Nobilis. :haw:

!i!

Blackleaf · May 28, 2008, 05:22:48 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaNot sure, though it seems they included The Monarda Law from Nobilis. :haw:

He said the secret word! GrimGent will be here any moment. :keke:

RPGPundit · May 28, 2008, 05:27:00 PM

And while we're at it: are there random treasure tables, or not?

RPGPundit

RPGPundit · May 28, 2008, 05:32:11 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaNot sure, though it seems they included The Monarda Law from Nobilis. :haw:

!i!

Well, if they included it as anything other than as general GMing advice, that would pretty much preclude the existence of a Rule 0. You can't have the "never say no" thing as a rule, and also have a Rule 0.

RPGPundit

Fritzs · May 28, 2008, 05:38:07 PM

RPGPundit: I haven't noticed them... but I haven't read the whole thing, so maybe they are somewhere as optional rule...

Ian Absentia · May 28, 2008, 05:43:26 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditYou can't have the "never say no" thing as a rule, and also have a Rule 0.

Now, see? You could have dodged GrimGent before this, but that "never say no" bit is just plain bait.

!i!

The Yann Waters · May 28, 2008, 05:51:52 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYou could have dodged GrimGent before this, but that "never say no" bit is just plain bait.

Meh. We've already gone over all this far too many times in the past: it's not a rule even in Nobilis, just sensible advice.

James McMurray · May 28, 2008, 06:19:12 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditWell, what about "Rule 0"?

There had been some considerable debate here earlier about people claiming that surely the new edition would have some variety of a "rule 0" (where the GM has the final authority, over and above the rules themselves); a position they argued mostly (I argued) out of blind optimism, given that everything in the previews seemed to indicate that the GMs were strongly limited in their authority in the game.

I know some of you have already seen the PHB and DMG... so, who was right? Is a rule 0 in there or not?

RPGPundit

There is nothing I have seen labeled "Rule 0." However, the DM is stated as being the arbiter whenever something is unclear, and is given the right to create house rules if he wants. The viking hat is not explicit, but appears to still be hiding under the covers.

Hackmaster · May 28, 2008, 06:44:05 PM

I haven't seen it despite flipping through the entire DMG. I haven't specifically gone looking for it, but for now my impression is that no, it's not in there.

I haven't seen any random treasure tables either. There are tables telling you what level magic items and how much gold you should give each encounter, and there is a sentence or two telling you to pick items that your players will think are fun. In other words, no magic maces if all of your players like using swords.

Akrasia · May 28, 2008, 06:49:24 PM

Hmmm ... I like a lot of what I'm reading about 4e, but if 'rule 0' isn't there, that's disappointing. (Not that it would affect me one way or the other, but there's a principle at stake here!)

J Arcane · May 28, 2008, 07:01:37 PM

Courtesy of Mr. Mcmurray:

QuoteThe House Rules section gives the GM the right to change the rules. Page 189: "If you disagree with how the rules handle something, changing them is within your rights."

Sounds like Rule 0 to me. Why he's being so cagey as to not repost it here I don't really understand.

Engine · May 28, 2008, 07:17:09 PM

I think all that looking at the 4e DMG is probably burning him. Actually, it's burning me, too.

Ian Absentia · May 28, 2008, 07:27:42 PM

Quote from: J ArcaneSounds like Rule 0 to me.

You forgot to put on your special glasses, though:

"If you disagree with how the rules handle something, changing them is within your rights (if your players let you, you big pussy)."

!i!

J Arcane · May 28, 2008, 07:33:07 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYou forgot to put on your special glasses, though:

"If you disagree with how the rules handle something, changing them is within your rights (if your players let you, you big pussy)."

!i!

I will admit though, that the wording on it is a little awkward, but overall it does seem to be the rule 0 I'm familiar with at least.