Quote from: Sacrificial LambI'm confused. Have they finished writing the game? If you pay the $5,000, does that mean you get to see the game rules they've written before it's released to the public? I hope I'm not being dense, but I need to have the obvious stated. :confused:

The way I understand it according to that release is that the 4E core books (released by Wizards) will be finished and available in June 2008, so the game will have finished being written by that time.  The publisher pays $5000 to get a copy of the SRD and then gets to release products starting in August 2008.  In January 2009, the SRD becomes OGL and anyone can release products without paying the $5000 from that time forward.  

But the core books will have been available for 6 months already, so publishers who did not want to pay for the license will already know how the system works (they just won't know for certain what is and is not OGL).  

Does that help?

Again everyone, please let me know if I'm missing something.  I've only had a short while to look this over.  

Pete

Honestly, I don't think anyone should shell out the $5,000.   Necromancer and Goodman are definitely on board but why do this just to maintain market presence?  Even these two companies are, at best, second tier (WotC being tier one) and what do they have to gain by jumping in early?  Okay, maybe they'll have a good 4e GenCon but will it be enough to cover the $5k and is it going to matter in the public eye?  Let's face it, second tier companies are still a gem only in the eyes of the internet-savvy fanbase--admittedly a small percentage of D&D gamers (thought I recall reading that somewhere)--and those same fans will still be there to support their company, be it 0 months or 6 months after 4e's release.  Heck, how long did Necro fans have to wait for City of Brass for god's sake and were still happy as clams when it was eventually released?  That same mentality carries over here, methinks.

As a new, small, pdf publisher, I'm actually happy with the sneak-peak fee.  It tells me that I will stay my course until 4th quarter '08.  Since I don't make that much now, at least I can expect the same steady sales.  

As I said elsewhere, if WOTC honestly thinks that there won't be a fully-functional and legal 4.0 SRD released under v1.0a of the OGL, then they're sadly mistaken.  It will happen, and likely within a month of 4.0's release.

I agree with you there Brad, but from what I'm reading here and in the announcement, it still seems that WoTC is virtually guaranteeing a continuing 3.5 market.

I think there will still be a market for 3.5 products for a while yet.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerAs I said elsewhere, if WOTC honestly thinks that there won't be a fully-functional and legal 4.0 SRD released under v1.0a of the OGL, then they're sadly mistaken.  It will happen, and likely within a month of 4.0's release.

I can see this happening.  I imagine there's folks chomping at the bit to do so.

Why does the "Discuss this article" link at the bottom of WoTC's announcement send you to the D&D Miniatures forum?

Quote from: joewolzI think there will still be a market for 3.5 products for a while yet.

That depends on how you define "market."  I see a lot of 3.5 stuff in bargain bins and some publishers aren't taking on larger supplements like settings and such.  From what I hear (hearsay), online/PDF sales have also been down across the board.  

Pete

And yet I notice, pspahn, that all of your products use d20.  Are you going to upgrade all of them?  Or are you going to wait and see?

I think in the PDF realm, 3.5 will be around for a while.  The OGL we have now may become a serious competitor for 4th edition as well, especially if someone can make 4th ed appear within the current OGL's context.

Quote from: joewolzAnd yet I notice, pspahn, that all of your products use d20.  Are you going to upgrade all of them?  Or are you going to wait and see?

d20 Modern actually, which runs under a different SRD.  So, I have the luxury of waiting and seeing how it pans out.  

Quoteespecially if someone can make 4th ed appear within the current OGL's context.

Now that's an interesting thought, especially if OGL/4E compatible products started hitting the shelves before 2009 from publishers who did not pay for the kit.  

Pete

I just learned the news. I'm not surprised in the least.

I think it makes sense, and I think the original (3e) was very loose and not in WotC's best interests.

As a fan, I'm not disappointed. Didn't like much 3rd party products originally. If this doesn't improve things for me, it certainly isn't going to make them worse.

About what I expected, so there is no disappointment here - the writing was on the wall, and it is good to see my favourite d20 company be able to release material in a timely manner (it... helps the enthusiasm that one of these products happens to be Tegel Manor :deflated: ).

Quote from: Pierce InverarityFunny, Necromancer, a niche company, endorse 4E jubilantly, but Paizo, a mainstream company, are holding off. Why, and how much of this is showmanship--who knows.

Necromancer Games is a company of two guys who run it in their free time, and a small collection of contracted volunteers who are also doing things in their own free time. Paizo actually employs salaried people (maybe about a dozen), and have a responsibility to them. It is an entirely different motivation, since Necromancer can afford to be satisfied with low profits, while Paizo cannot. My inner grognard sez Paizo should just make a well-supported, intelligently written 3.75 game and stick with it. However, my inner grognard doesn't have salaried employees either. :haw:

So the SRD isn´t going to be a real SRD, correct?
 
It´s (the new OGL) mostly a D&D licensing thingamajig, correct?

Quote from: PaizoWe have not yet made a decision regarding fourth edition and won't until all the cards are on the table. The difference going forward is that the card game has now started, and the dealer is getting ready to begin play.

If I were in Paizo's position, and having just hand WotC kill Dragon and Dungeon magazine on them, I'd be very careful with how my company viewed any new licensing deals with them.  Especially one that's a lot more restrictive than the 3.x d20 license.

Looks like the companies that developed their own D20 based RPGs and built a fan base made a smart move.

Quote from: NapftorHonestly, I don't think anyone should shell out the $5,000.   Necromancer and Goodman are definitely on board but why do this just to maintain market presence?  Even these two companies are, at best, second tier (WotC being tier one) and what do they have to gain by jumping in early?  

Necromancer attributes the massive sales of Crucible of Freya and some of their other early 3E releases like Rappan Athuk to the being first out of the gate with published adventures. I assume they're banking on the same approach for 4E. Even with WotC's own planned adventure series taking the lion's share, you'll see big sales of the first professional 4E adventures to hit the shelves - especially with WotC putting up a $5,000 barrier to entry for the first six months to prevent a glut.