Ah, I see. So "Marking" is basically what they're going to use to argue for 5th edition in a couple of years: "4th edition had too many flaws, there were things that EVERYONE agrees just don't work, like the Marking Rules. They were an interesting concept but need to be totally reworked... also, 4th edition makes it too difficult for players to feel awesome enough. In 5th we'll give every player a pet dragon at level 1!"

RPGPundit

"Hunter's Mark" is a WoW power isn't it that flags a creature with a little arrow and gives the Hunter that flagged him a bonus , whilst also handily making sure the PCs know which target to take down first.

Pundit be careful re pets (dragons and otherwise) they are hugely important in WoW and very popular Also the potential for additional mini sales if your ranger changes his pet every 3 levels are huge :-)

The big problem I see with this rules (as currently presented) and others of the same ilk is that it's adding a huge meta-gaming layer on top of the rules that you need to play out a story.  A thief sneaking up on someone and back stabbing them, that's supported in a story.

A fighter, a thief, a paladin, a mage a... all surveying the field, marking their targets and then their targets for whatever reason knowing 'I must go after X' that's just not supported in any sort of story telling.

In current D20 and other rpg's there are marking systems that fit in with the story.  A Kender's taunting for example to piss off and draw a target, or a flensing maneuver that doesn't hurt your target, but really pisses them off and draws them onto you.  That also fits well within a story.  If these are the sorts of things that 'Mark' does I'm all for it.

But from the rules we've seen so far it doesn't seem to be the case.

Quote from: kryystThe big problem I see with this rules (as currently presented) and others of the same ilk is that it's adding a huge meta-gaming layer on top of the rules that you need to play out a story.  A thief sneaking up on someone and back stabbing them, that's supported in a story.

A fighter, a thief, a paladin, a mage a... all surveying the field, marking their targets and then their targets for whatever reason knowing 'I must go after X' that's just not supported in any sort of story telling.

All we have is the crunch, not the flavor text. It seems like only Defenders get marking abilities, so tht leaves the thief and mage out. We also know that the paladin's abilty is called Divine Challenge, a name which at least suggest an in game logic behind it.

Quote from: jibbajibba"Hunter's Mark" is a WoW power isn't it that flags a creature with a little arrow and gives the Hunter that flagged him a bonus , whilst also handily making sure the PCs know which target to take down first.

exactly!

QuoteHunter's Mark
Places the Hunter's Mark on the target, increasing the Ranged Attack Power of all attackers against that target by 20. In addition, the target of this ability can always be seen by the hunter whether it stealths or turns invisible. The target also appears on the mini-map. Lasts for 2 min.

kregmosier, that sounds a hell of a lot like Farie Fire, no?  (although bonus for doing damage is on the dmg rather than the tohit)

Quote from: blakkiekregmosier, that sounds a hell of a lot like Farie Fire, no?  (although bonus for doing damage is on the dmg rather than the tohit)

Nooo!!!! It's WOW!!!! WOW, I say!!!! WotC wants to be Blizzard and there's no denying it!!!! BLAARGLE!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat's not true, either.  I believe what you mean to say is that it isn't conclusive or definitive.  Wizards of the Coast itself is the source of the information. What do you suppose they want people to do with that information? Give it a big ol' rubber stamp of approval?  Well, okay, they probably would like that, but...they want people to speculate on what the game is going to be like.  And I wouldn't be surprised if they're gauging the negative speculation.

!i!

Yanno, that's really my biggest pet peeve in all these threads, one I've expressed before.

What the fuck else am I supposed to base my opinion on, but the shit Wizards themselves are saying about the fucking game?  Am I supposed to just assume they're lying?

Quote from: James McMurrayNooo!!!! It's WOW!!!! WOW, I say!!!! WotC wants to be Blizzard and there's no denying it!!!! BLAARGLE!

D&D's faerie fire doesn't do anything but nullify concealment effects like invisibility.

It's the WoW fairie fire that actually provides a direct stat debuff (subtracts Armor).  

And this "marking" basically sounds exactly like an inverse Hunter's Mark.

It gave a bonus to hit in 2e (+2 IIRC), and presumably earlier versions, though I don't have a book handy to look it up.

Sorry, D&D did it first, no win this time.

Quote from: James McMurrayIt gave a bonus to hit in 2e (+2 IIRC), and presumably earlier versions, though I don't have a book handy to look it up.

Sorry, D&D did it first, no win this time.

Yeah 1e/2e did. That bonus (I remembered it as +1 but you could be right there) got toned down to nothing other than helping with darkness/invibility/concealed targets in 3e when they realized how uberpowerful that spell made lowlevel characters.

Quote from: RPGPunditIn 5th we'll give every player a pet dragon at level 1!"

RPGPundit

Actually, I like the idea of pets, familiars, and animal companions....so long as it's not overdone. It can work very well under the right circumstances.

Quote from: blakkieYeah 1e/2e did. That bonus (I remembered it as +1 but you could be right there) got toned down to nothing other than helping with darkness/invibility/concealed targets in 3e when they realized how uberpowerful that spell made lowlevel characters.

Yeah...according to the SRD, it has no bonus whatsoever.  I'll have to look it up for earlier editions...

Quote from: Sacrificial LambActually, I like the idea of pets, familiars, and animal companions....so long as it's not overdone. It can work very well under the right circumstances.

I'm planning on giving my daughter's halfling sorceress a pseudodragon in lieu of the rat familiar she lost.  That's just a GM/dad call, though, not a design feature.

!i!

I think I've reached the point, after reading about several new mechanics like this in 4E, where I'm questioning whether I'm even going to buy the core books for 4E.  If I wanted to play an MMORPG, I'd play an MMORPG.