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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Benoist on January 23, 2011, 09:25:15 PM

Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 23, 2011, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;434715Now I could start a discussion of why 4e isn't really even a game, but that would get silly.
Wait wait wait. 4e isn't even a game, in your eyes?

(Starting a new thread with this because I like silly)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ggroy on January 23, 2011, 09:27:31 PM
***  Let The Madness Begin!!!  ***

:pundit:
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: danbuter on January 23, 2011, 09:31:14 PM
I don't like 4e, but it is a game. Saying otherwise is just silly.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Insufficient Metal on January 23, 2011, 09:34:19 PM
For fuck's sake. :duh:
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Koltar on January 23, 2011, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: danbuter;434729I don't like 4e, but it is a game. Saying otherwise is just silly.

...Okay then, but what KIND of game is it?

Is it a boardgame with pretensions of being an RPG?

Is it miniatureses game with roleplaying rules tacked on to it as an afterthought?


- Ed C.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 09:36:36 PM
Quote from: Benoist;434726Wait wait wait. 4e isn't even a game, in your eyes?

(Starting a new thread with this because I like silly)

Only in jest sir!

However there was an editorial in Dragon back in the second edition days about how roleplaying "games" were not technically games at all, but amusements.  Which is in many ways a fair assessment as they are not a competive activity and that's part of some dictionary definitions or something.

Now if I were attacking it from the angle that D&D 4e isn't even a game I'd start with the minion rules and ways in which the rules aren't applied equally to NPCs and PCs but no.  While an rpg may not actually be a game in some obscure entmological way that argument isn't much fun for an uneducated laborer like myself.

Bear in mind that while I think 4e is a catastrophe for the D&D brand it's actually a better game than 3e or 2e neither of which seems to have been designed people who actually understood D&D very well or just had no respect for the original design.

While the earlier versions of D&D suffered from being cobbled together with spit and bailing wire, the later ones are over engineered, largely reactions against the storytelling game thrust of the nineties, and reward a style of play that I find appalling.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 09:39:03 PM
Quote from: Koltar;434731...Okay then, but what KIND of game is it?

Is it a boardgame with pretensions of being an RPG?

Is it miniatureses game with roleplaying rules tacked on to it as an afterthought?


- Ed C.

It is a ROLEPLAYING AMUSEMENT sir and not a game at all!  :D
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Koltar on January 23, 2011, 10:01:28 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;434733It is a ROLEPLAYING AMUSEMENT sir and not a game at all!  :D

Somehow you should be dressed in Steampunk or Edwardian style clothing when you say that.


- Ed C.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 10:21:57 PM
Steam...PUNK?  SIR!  You offend me!

Do I look like some Dickensian waif waiting to snatch your wallet?

Steam Society sir, Steam Society or Steam Science if you must be vulgar!

Steam Punk indeed, I've a mind to give you a taste of my riding crop!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Shazbot79 on January 23, 2011, 10:41:20 PM
You're both wrong...

It's gaslight romance.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 23, 2011, 10:44:59 PM
More silliness is warranted here, gentlemen. Come on now, let's get on with it. :D

(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123194654_4d3cf62e274db.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 10:55:27 PM
It looks like Benoist is begging for a taste of the riding crop.

Even so sir, silly arguments require silly counter arguments.  Pick up your own end or accept my position!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Cole on January 23, 2011, 10:55:47 PM
Quote from: Benoist;434743More silliness is warranted here, gentlemen. Come on now, let's get on with it. :D

(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123194654_4d3cf62e274db.jpg)

(http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5376629/the-4ead-fuckin-lets-get-on-with-it.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 10:58:23 PM
Is this some obscure variant of The Chewbacca Defense?

Because Batman is not silly and D&D 4e simply is not a game.

For example, you cannot chase Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition through the woods with your hounds and hunting horns, what with it being an endanger species and all that rot.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: crkrueger on January 23, 2011, 11:02:20 PM
Quote from: Benoist;434743More silliness is warranted here, gentlemen. Come on now, let's get on with it. :D

(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123194654_4d3cf62e274db.jpg)

Oh no you didn't.

(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123200128_4d3cf9985eb67.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Cole on January 23, 2011, 11:03:29 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;434751Is this some obscure variant of The Chewbacca Defense?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5383511100_a38eb04852.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQObWW06VAM)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 11:21:07 PM
I always wonder about Chewbacca living on Endor, is that essentially pedophillia or something?  95% of Hitlers say Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition is an exploration of Wookie pedophillia and not a game at all!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Daedalus on January 23, 2011, 11:21:09 PM
I read this and thought "they cant be serious".  Glad to see they werent
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Insufficient Metal on January 23, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;434762I always wonder about Chewbacca living on Endor, is that essentially pedophillia or something?  95% of Hitlers say Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition is an exploration of Wookie pedophillia and not a game at all!

I don't know what's going on in this post, but it's amazing.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 23, 2011, 11:27:46 PM
(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123202707_4d3cff9bb732d.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Cole on January 23, 2011, 11:34:07 PM
Quote from: Benoist;434769(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123202707_4d3cff9bb732d.jpg)

(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110123203343_4d3d0127a3571.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 11:37:02 PM
Quote from: Insufficient Metal;434767I don't know what's going on in this post, but it's amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhvAs5GsMPw

It's really a vital exposition on the nature of internet debate when you think about it.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Koltar on January 23, 2011, 11:56:42 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;434775http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhvAs5GsMPw

It's really a vital exposition on the nature of internet debate when you think about it.

Except for the fact that the "Chewbacca Defense" from 'South Park' has been wrong all these years.

Chewbacca is from Kashyyk - the Wookiee homeworld. So cartoon Cochran should have been called on the walking carpet for that mistake.


- Ed C.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 23, 2011, 11:58:44 PM
IRRC in some of the EU stuff he lives on Endor after the battle of Endor.

Obviously Starwars is a vile attempt to prepare children to kneel down before hairy adults and play Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 24, 2011, 12:03:10 AM
(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123210249_4d3d07f9c9d73.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: skofflox on January 24, 2011, 12:22:01 AM
:rotfl:

oh the humanity...
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 24, 2011, 12:25:09 AM
I believe so far we have proven that the very questionable "Chewbacca Defense" is no match for invoking Hitler and Pedophillia in an internet debate!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Peregrin on January 24, 2011, 12:26:03 AM
It's not a game. (http://easybake.ytmnd.com/)

It makes real dungeons, with spiked pits, and there's poison traps.

But the secret ingredient is fear, dammit!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 24, 2011, 12:30:09 AM
Fear the skill challeeenge!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 24, 2011, 12:31:46 AM
We have nothing to fear but fear itself, and skill challenges of course, those things are freaky shit.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Peregrin on January 24, 2011, 12:33:49 AM
I really don't know why skill challenges get so much love from some.  I've always found them mechanically bland at best when run by a competent GM, and horribly stilted otherwise.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: jeff37923 on January 24, 2011, 01:14:52 AM
Quote from: Daedalus;434763I read this and thought "they cant be serious".  Glad to see they werent

If people were serious they would say that D&D 4E is not a role-playing game.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Doom on January 24, 2011, 01:32:09 AM
4e is the best 4e version of 4e D&D!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: David Johansen on January 24, 2011, 01:36:58 AM
A ridiculous assertion.  Palladium Fantasy Roleplaying 1e is the best 4e version of 4e D&D and 95% of pedophile wookie hitlers think so.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 24, 2011, 01:38:20 AM
Quote from: Shazbot79;434741You're both wrong...

It's gaslight romance.
But with more gas, and no light at all. :D
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Shazbot79 on January 24, 2011, 01:47:41 AM
Quote from: Peregrin;434786It's not a game. (http://easybake.ytmnd.com/)

It makes real dungeons, with spiked pits, and there's poison traps.

But the secret ingredient is fear, dammit!

Quote from: Benoist;434787Fear the skill challeeenge!

"Roll your goddamn athletics you fucking taffy ass glitterboi!"

"My what? Athletes? I don't...how do I even...?"

"Athletics! Roll it, nancy!"

"Roll it? Roll what??? Roll on the ground?"

"Roll your athletics! This is a motherfucking skill challenge and their are mother fucking spikes with motherfucking poison and you will motherfucking die! Now roll your fucking athletics!"

"There's been a mistake..ah-heh...I'm here for a spin class!"

"Athletics! Roll your athletics! What's wrong with you? Roll your athletics! Why in sweet cherry syrup fuck aren't you rolling your athletics??? Do you want to die???"

"Die? What? I'm just...I don't even know...look can I just leave?"

"Oh you know what...my bad...it's actually acrobatics."

"What?"

"DC 21"

"What's happening?"

"Acrobatics motherfucker!"
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Shazbot79 on January 24, 2011, 01:48:23 AM
Quote from: Benoist;434797But with more gas, and no light at all. :D

Depends on where's you're holding the lighter.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: crkrueger on January 24, 2011, 02:07:30 AM
Quote from: Peregrin;434789I really don't know why skill challenges get so much love from some.  I've always found them mechanically bland at best when run by a competent GM, and horribly stilted otherwise.

(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110123230701_4d3d2515b4e26.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Imperator on January 24, 2011, 04:37:38 AM
Best thread of 2011 so far.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: StormBringer on January 24, 2011, 04:59:12 AM
Quote from: Benoist;434787Fear the skill challeeenge!
Blam.
(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124015803_4d3d4d2b7e6dc.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: StormBringer on January 24, 2011, 05:02:14 AM
Quote from: Benoist;434769(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123202707_4d3cff9bb732d.jpg)
(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124020057_4d3d4dd9184ea.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Benoist on January 24, 2011, 10:56:38 AM
Quote from: StormBringer;434821(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124020057_4d3d4dd9184ea.jpg)
:D LOL Hilarious. I too want a batmobile in Gamma World!
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Peregrin on January 24, 2011, 12:19:52 PM
Me too.

Our group ended up with a single beatup pickup and something like 5 fucking canoes.

Oh, and a horse.

But what are we going to do with FIVE FUCKING CANOES??
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: kregmosier on January 24, 2011, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Peregrin;434872Me too.

Our group ended up with a single beatup pickup and something like 5 fucking canoes.

Oh, and a horse.

But what are we going to do with FIVE FUCKING CANOES??

http://www.flickr.com/photos/barb/4258326255/#/  :D
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Shazbot79 on January 24, 2011, 01:15:46 PM
Quote from: Peregrin;434872Me too.

Our group ended up with a single beatup pickup and something like 5 fucking canoes.

Oh, and a horse.

But what are we going to do with FIVE FUCKING CANOES??

Build a stronghold....attract followers. Injun' followers.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: jeff37923 on January 24, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: Peregrin;434872Me too.

Our group ended up with a single beatup pickup and something like 5 fucking canoes.

Oh, and a horse.

But what are we going to do with FIVE FUCKING CANOES??

Make two and a half catamarans?
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ColonelHardisson on January 24, 2011, 03:56:06 PM
What next? Someone rationalizing that 4e doesn't exist?
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ColonelHardisson on January 24, 2011, 04:00:09 PM
Quote from: Benoist;434769(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110123202707_4d3cff9bb732d.jpg)

Man, I'd love to get in on this with something about having to be tied to a cleric's apron strings, but my ability to 'shop stuff is a big ol' FAIL. :(
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Cole on January 24, 2011, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;434906Man, I'd love to get in on this with something about having to be tied to a cleric's apron strings, but my ability to 'shop stuff is a big ol' FAIL. :(

(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124130851_4d3dea631f4f5.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Cole on January 24, 2011, 04:10:10 PM
(double post)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ColonelHardisson on January 24, 2011, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Cole;434909(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124130851_4d3dea631f4f5.jpg)

I actually laughed out loud, for real.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: TAFMSV on January 24, 2011, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;434906Man, I'd love to get in on this with something about having to be tied to a cleric's apron strings, but my ability to 'shop stuff is a big ol' FAIL. :(


(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124131124_4d3deafca81ef.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Koltar on January 24, 2011, 04:29:18 PM
Quote from: Cole;434909(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110124130851_4d3dea631f4f5.jpg)

Cole,

 That same word ballon joke would work if you had a still pic of when Nurse Chapel was told to slap around Spock in an episode.


- Ed C.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: crkrueger on January 24, 2011, 08:59:28 PM
(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110124175900_4d3e2e64dbed1.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: jeff37923 on January 25, 2011, 04:42:16 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;434963(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110124175900_4d3e2e64dbed1.jpg)

Schweet!  :D
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ColonelHardisson on January 25, 2011, 10:05:24 AM
Quote from: Koltar;434916Cole,

 That same word ballon joke would work if you had a still pic of when Nurse Chapel was told to slap around Spock in an episode.


- Ed C.

I think it would work better as a gif. But that's a great idea.
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ColonelHardisson on January 25, 2011, 10:10:46 AM
OK, so my idiocy has been assuaged a bit...

(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110125071001_4d3ee7c9626d4.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: ColonelHardisson on January 25, 2011, 10:18:03 AM
Damn, this is fun!

(http://www.batmancomic.info/gen/20110125071748_4d3ee99ce575f.jpg)
Title: 4e isn't even a game?
Post by: Insufficient Metal on January 25, 2011, 10:49:05 AM
I have nothing of use to add, so...


(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110125074820_4d3ef0c49d2bf.jpg)

(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20110125074942_4d3ef1168f9cb.jpg)
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