Quote from: thecasualoblivion;389330Being here to troll and being here to argue are two separate things. I try to have a point, and to make points. Some lazy people prefer to call people names as opposed to actually discussing things.

Devil's Advocates are worse than trolls, douchebag.

Quote from: beejazz;389337Opinions can have more or less merit than other opinions, and there still isn't a damn thing wrong with contradicting people on an unmoderated forum. At least the other people on this thread are arguing actual points (though on the 4e side of things that's mostly just Pseudo all by himself right now), instead of just whining that people are arguing.

A lot of people have the "opinion" that homeopathy actually works.  It's a load of bollocks with no basis in scientific fact, but hey, it's just like, their opinion, man, so of course that means the BBC has to give them equal coverage.

Maybe TCO is just used to BBC journalism.

Quote from: noisms;389268There can't be much more in life that is more unedifying than arguing over definitions on the internet.

Especially definitions of terms people made up themselves.

Seanchai

Quote from: StormBringer;389338Seriously?  You have never heard of JC Whitney?  Dude!  They had honest-to-God woodcarving style illustrations until the last catalog I saw of theirs several years ago.  There is nothing quite like the frisson of cognitive dissonance brought on by seeing some electrical part or doo-dad illustrated in a style popular hundreds of years prior.

My god, I didn't even know they were still in business; I used to have a few of their print catalogs lying around my room as a kid.

I'll check it out.  Now if I only had a car a/c bleed kit and the five years or so of training to properly use it

Quote from: StormBringer;389342No, mostly we were trying to get away from your passive agressive bullshit, like the junior high ideas about 'opinions' you hold.  It's douchebags like you that made a bee-line to the moderators when called on being passive aggressive douchebags.

I was actually banned from RPG.net for my argumentative trolling style (or firing back at being dog-piled by passove-aggressive douchbags, your choice). Clearly, I haven't learned my lesson since I'm such a horrible person on this board.

I came here not of my own free will - it was forced upon me as nobody else would have me.... *sniff*

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;389325They are arguing that what they say is truth, and that the other side is deluded and not even participating in the discussion.

No, it's worse than that. They're also arguing that others aren't playing an actual roleplaying game. It's not defending a truth, it's about the truth. Being gatekeepers. It's about acquiring a special, superior feeling to replace the one they lost when they realized the majority of gamers are going to keep playing a game they don't like...

Seanchai

Quote from: Werekoala;389353I was actually banned from RPG.net for my argumentative trolling style (or firing back at being dog-piled by passove-aggressive douchbags, your choice). Clearly, I haven't learned my lesson since I'm such a horrible person on this board.

I came here not of my own free will - it was forced upon me as nobody else would have me.... *sniff*

There, there, sweetheart...  we all like you here.

This will cheer you up:  Eurovision 2010 winner

If not, ELO always works:  Mr Blue Sky
(Fun trivia:  The heavily vocoded part at the very end says "Please turn me over", not "Mr Blue Sky-yyy")

Quote from: thedungeondelver;389347My god, I didn't even know they were still in business; I used to have a few of their print catalogs lying around my room as a kid.

I'll check it out.  Now if I only had a car a/c bleed kit and the five years or so of training to properly use it

Those catalogs were awesome.  I swear you could build a whole car from them.

Quote from: StormBringer;389343Devil's Advocates are worse than trolls, douchebag.

That's stupid. Provided a devil's advocate is actually willing to concede points and amend their arguments in response to offered responses, there is nothing wrong with attempting to present a counterargument, especially if there are none/few willing to take up that side.

Quote from: SeanchaiNo, it's worse than that.

Until these threads move past the psychobabble bullshit you're pulling (and others, too, so I'm not trying to necessarily single you out), there's almost no point in even posting here. We go through the same circles all the time, getting nowhere, each side constantly ascribing bullshit motives to the other.

It's getting tiresome.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;389359That's stupid. Provided a devil's advocate is actually willing to concede points and amend their arguments in response to offered responses, there is nothing wrong with attempting to present a counterargument, especially if there are none/few willing to take up that side.

Sadly, no one actually does that.  It almost always ends up being another douchebag advocate thinking they are clever.

Quote from: StormBringer;389362Sadly, no one actually does that.  It almost always ends up being another douchebag advocate thinking they are clever.

I think that part of the problem is that the two camps are so freaking hostile to each other that everyone assumes that anyone who opposes them has ridiculously stupid nonsensical motives (per Seanchai's post, above).

Until we get past this hostility, we're not going to get anywhere.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;389359Until these threads move past the psychobabble bullshit you're pulling (and others, too, so I'm not trying to necessarily single you out), there's almost no point in even posting here. We go through the same circles all the time, getting nowhere, each side constantly ascribing bullshit motives to the other.

It's getting tiresome.

It's the nature of the beast. When the discussions are unmoderated, you will have all sorts of BS cropping up in discussions. I'm not claiming any high ground here, because the medium basically allows us to have cat fights if we want to, and I appreciate that.

We are lucky in that we all are basically a bunch of folks who can have interesting discussions when we are willing to have them. It's not like Something Awful or other boards where you're left wondering what the fuck is going on.

So the best way to deal with it is to use critical thinking. Just have the discussions you want to have, the arguments you want to have, and discriminate between posts, threads, users, whatever, what you want to get from this board. After a while, the noise will fade in the background, most of the time.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;389366I think that part of the problem is that the two camps are so freaking hostile to each other that everyone assumes that anyone who opposes them has ridiculously stupid nonsensical motives (per Seanchai's post, above).

Until we get past this hostility, we're not going to get anywhere.

That would require people upset at the success of 4E and other games having the ability to move on.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;389369That would require people upset at the success of 4E and other games having the ability to move on.

...see, shit like that. What does that even mean? To me it sounds like you are just trying to be aggravating and not actually contributing anything useful to the conversation.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;389372...see, shit like that. What does that even mean? To me it sounds like you are just trying to be aggravating and not actually contributing anything useful to the conversation.

As Benoist has pointed out, that is what he does.