In original D&D, Gary talks about a "referee's map" of the wilderness that uses 5 mile hexes (in fact, the movement rate table uses number of 5 mile hexes, rather than miles or leagues). In the 1e DMG, he talks about a world or continent map using hexes of 20 to 40 miles per hex (the Greyhawk map uses 30 miles per hex), with more detailed or zoomed in area maps that divide each large hex by five, giving a scale of 4 to 8 miles per hex. I like either a 30 mile hex + 6 miles per hex area maps, or a 25 mile hex + 5 miles per hex area maps (the second is what I'm currently using). Your map's hexes cover more area than I would choose, but they're still within the guidelines that Gary suggested, at least for a world map.



That said, I agree with Foster that hex crawls seem to work well with on a 5 or 6 miles per hex area map (especially for interesting sites on your world map). Both 5 and 6 miles work out well with leagues (the distance one can walk in an hour). Historically, leagues have been commonly defined at both 2.5 miles and 3 miles (take your pick), so your "referee's area map" hexes can break down into 2 leagues (2 hour walk) each. These maps complement, rather than replace, your world map.

The league measurement is also useful on the world map. For example, at 25 miles per hex and a 2.5 mile league, you have a hex being about a 10 hour march in clear terrain (that pace is rough, and may or may not sustainable over many days, but it's still useful to have 1 hex = about 1 day's walk). Also, the standard OD&D or AD&D "barony" or domain is a 20 to 30 mile radius around the castle or fortress (i.e. a "point of light"), which works out well with the world map's hex scale.

For your map, I'd use a 2.5 mile league, which would make each 40 mile hex 16 leagues, which you could say is about two days march in clear terrain and assuming an average load.  Dividing each hex into five hexes across would give you "referee area maps" with 8 mile hexes (3.2 leagues).

Thanks, that's incredibly helpful, esp. your pointing out how one can always complement a large scale map with smaller scale ones. I didn't know about that 1e DMG entry, I was only aware of a similar entry in the Wilderlands box by Necromancer Games (where you've got way more smaller hexes when you "zoom up" areas of the larger scale map).

I'm now tempted to do a follow-up set of complementory smaller maps for my campaign, "especially for interesting sites on your world map" as you put it.

PS. Thanks also for cross-posting your post on Enworld/cross-posting it here. I was going to do so and then saw you had already done so.

I'm glad you found that info helpful.  Another formula which I sometimes find useful in hex crawls is a rough estimate of horizon distance.

Horizon distance in miles = square root (1.5 x relative height in feet)

So if you have a 100' tower in the middle of a plain (and assuming clear conditions), a 6 foot man in would be able to see it from about 12 miles away.  (square root of (1.5 x (100-6)))  A range of mountains around 1000 ft. above the plain could be seen from about 40 miles away.  Et cetera.

Incidentally, if you have (or can easily get) a copy of the 1e DMG, it has some helpful info: wilderness movement rates, wilderness encounter frequency/ probability/distance (and encounter tables), guidelines for forced marches and chances of becoming lost, et cetera.

I've updated my OP with hex entries described in the one and only 4E Realms module, Scepter Tower of Spellgard. For those not caring to click on page 1, here are the updates:

My copy of that module arrived an hour ago in the mail. I've updated my OP with suggestions where to place these adventure sites. They really are suggestions - as pointed out above, some of the terrain adjustments on my map from forest to mountains and vice versa, call for the creative "placement" of some sites. - For those not caring to click back onto page 1 of the thread, here are the updates:

UPDATE, January 16 2010: Adventure locations described in
Scepter Tower of Spellgard, page 12. (Rumors about this sites are related ibd., p.3).


1. General Areas

T28-33,
U29-32_____The Fallen Lands: covers generally all the lands behind the Greypeak Mountains, but especially some uncharted territory shown in pale brown on the map.
V30-32,
W31-33_____Deep Maw: presumably a chasm that opens into the Underdark (cf. FRCG p. 232). (I recommend painting these hexes in pitch black.)
R30-32,
S32-33_____Weathercote Forest [not described in module].

2. Adventure Sites

N21_____Owlbar: small village of frontier settlers [presumably - not pescribed in module]
P27_____The Smear: peaceful village of lizardfolk. [re-located from original site]
Q27_____Valley of the Dogs: two hobgoblin tribes engaged in a territorial war.
R29_____Tarensent's Grave: dwarven site of ritual burial.
S31_____Monastery of the Precipice (FR1 module, pp.12-13), Ruins of Spellgard (ibid., pp.14).
T30_____Stormkeep
T31_____Reversed Obelisks
U31_____Jortay's Folly

Quote from: Windjammer;355021Here's my proof that the new signature setting of 4th edition D&D is closer in spirit to the Old School Renaissance (OSR) than its proponents or detractors might care to admit.

One map does not a game system make. Most of us learned that when we were 13 year AD&D DMs.

"But 4e is really Old School!" reminds me of the evangelical Christians who knock on my door to try to convert me.
"Mate, see the mezuzah? We're Jewish. Bye."
"That's great! Jews believe in Jesus, too!"
"No. Fuck off."

Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;355583One map does not a game system make. Most of us learned that when we were 13 year AD&D DMs.

"But 4e is really Old School!"

Emphasis mine. Strawmen yours.

On topic: Abyssal Maw, if any of the hexes are actually fleshed out in LFR modules, I'd love to incorporate those references in my OP. Let me know. Obviously the point isn't in overloading the map with "official" references (thus killing the purpose of the sandbox as a starting point for DIY DMs), but it's always nice to see if there are other DMs out there who've filled in some of the hexes and check out their work if one wants to.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;355583...
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.

This made me laugh out loud.  Thank you.

Quote from: Kyle AaronAstrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.

So, that means if I buy a copy of 4e and start heading to the Old School at the speed of light, using suspended disbelief to slow the conversion process, it would seem to me like a short 25-year journey, whilst on Earth all of my grognard peers will have died and no-one will remember the purpose of my journey to the stars - or even my journey at all. Sweet Moses, Aaron and Ezekiel, that's a buzz kill!

Quote from: Kellri;355722So, that means if I buy a copy of 4e and start heading to the Old School at the speed of light, using suspended disbelief to slow the conversion process, it would seem to me like a short 25-year journey, whilst on Earth all of my grognard peers will have died and no-one will remember the purpose of my journey to the stars - or even my journey at all.

And when you get back the earth will be populated with evolved centipede people all playing My Life With Master.

Speaking of wilderness hexes, I've been bashing Jagged Alliance 2 lately and I'm piqued for planning a strategic wilderness clear-and-hold campaign.

What I'm dreading, though, is pre-planning a whole map of hexes, plus patrol and supply routes for enemies etc.  Any tips on that or links to guides or blogs of similar campaigns?

Bumped for Benoist. estar talks about the similarities on like page 2 or 3; I pretty much agree with everything he says.

There's other stuff, too. It's far easier to do a horde of orcs in 4e. I know it's not BD&D, but the bit in G1 when you have like 20 or 30 hill giants in a room -- trivial. The core mechanic is a ton simpler. Etc.

Quote from: Thanlis;366067Bumped for Benoist. estar talks about the similarities on like page 2 or 3; I pretty much agree with everything he says.

There's other stuff, too. It's far easier to do a horde of orcs in 4e. I know it's not BD&D, but the bit in G1 when you have like 20 or 30 hill giants in a room -- trivial. The core mechanic is a ton simpler. Etc.

Awesome! Thanks a lot for the bump. I hadn't seen that gorgeous map. Love the style, and how you can see how it was put together with the felt pens, the white-out for the mountains... It's beautiful!

So. From what I'm reading from estar there, he basically states that 4e actually focuses on rules for combat encounters and little else, which is a throwback to the original game in this regard.

Also, that 4e meshes really well with sanbox game play.

The other two points, his dislike of the uber-heroic feel of the classes and how rituals fit the Majestic Wilderlands, don't seem to address the similitude he'd see between the original game and 4e, and in fact, in the former's case, would dispute it.

Do I get it right?

PS. Also, this:

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;355583Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.

Made me laugh out loud.

Quote from: Benoist;366073Awesome! Thanks a lot for the bump. I hadn't seen that gorgeous map. Love the style, and how you can see how it was put together with the felt pens, the white-out for the mountains... It's beautiful!

So. From what I'm reading from estar there, he basically states that 4e actually focuses on rules for combat encounters and little else, which is a throwback to the original game in this regard.

Also, that 4e meshes really well with sanbox game play.

The other two points, his dislike of the uber-heroic feel of the classes and how rituals fit the Majestic Wilderlands, don't seem to address the similitude he'd see between the original game and 4e, and in fact, in the former's case, would dispute it.

Do I get it right?

His actual quote is

Quote from: RS Conley"The ritual system fits perfectly with the general feel of magic in the Majestic Wilderlands. With is why I adapted the basic concept for my Swords & Wizardry supplment...

As for me, I think it's similar because monsters and encounters are less work, and it seems to acknowledge that it is a game rather than a collectible mathematical model of the universe. 4E works best at the table, not on the shelf.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;366075As for me, I think it's similar because monsters and encounters are less work, and it seems to acknowledge that it is a game rather than a collectible mathematical model of the universe. 4E works best at the table, not on the shelf.

Less work as compared to... what? 3rd edition? Monsters and encounters are less work mostly because of the DDI and electronic tools that are part of it, I would guess. Correct?

As for acknowledging that this is a game instead of some simulation model, I see how you can consider it as a similitude. I do think that the two games look at the nature of the actual game play in different ways, however. 4e seems to be much more insistent on the notion that playing the game system itself is a big part of the fun to be had. Isn't it?

PS: I know who Rob/estar is, by the way. You didn't need to point that out.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;366075As for me, I think it's similar because monsters and encounters are less work, and it seems to acknowledge that it is a game rather than a collectible mathematical model of the universe. 4E works best at the table, not on the shelf.

Different strokes, different gaming agendas, etc, etc...

Not everyone enjoys gamist play.