Quote from: Windjammer;355071And yes the intent is the exact opposite of trolling. You can run a game in the spirit of the OSR off that map straight away.

In the light of this bit you said in another thread (the one about the new D&D promo video)...

Quote from: Windjammer;355075In 4E the mechanical elements of the PCs define just one thing - the PCs - and nothing else. The 4E mechanics used to
define classes (powers, feats, ...) don't even model NPC wizards, let alone commoners, let alone a society. The edition is
based on the idea that the time and love that goes into building a PC need not occur when a DM builds the 30 NPCs of a village.

That's fine until you realize that the edition doesn't provide much by way of providing mechanics in that area at all.
There are extremely few mechanics for what's there in a world apart from PCs and monsters. (...) It's just that WotC
unburdened all that on the DM.
(...)
But I must say, giving me as a DM free reign on everything outside combat happens to fits my default DM style quite well.

...you want to stress that it was exactly that way with OD&D?



(Very nice map, btw! I don't know anything about the new setting. I was under the impression that WotC didn't want to
detail the implied setting - so is that map based on something official--the names, of course--or is the placement of terrain
your design?)

Very nice map.

My son found a hex map I was working on and had lots of questions about it, so we ended up colouring in all the hexes by hand with crayons.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;355084Hey there's my dungeon! (Vault of Xammux!)

Yes, hex R21! Observe how in my version of the map that vault now sits on the lower reaches of the mountain range, whereas in the original one which you linked to in your dungeon description you can see it's drawn inside a forest.

That's just one of several changes - I've certainly not been entirely faithful to the original map (whence the cheeky reference to the Spellplague in the OP).

Incidentally, the one thing I disliked most about the original (apart from the colours just being too pale) is that there were so many streets and roads! That doesn't strike me as very "Points of Light"ish*, and so I actually didn't bother to copy most of them onto my map.

@Dirk: in that thread I'm talking about the rules. Here I'm only talking about the little sandbox that's inside the first chapter of the new Realms book. My thread title glosses that distinction over (rules vs. setting), so I guess we oughta blame myself for that one.

*Although I must admit it's quite in line with the strictures of the 4E DMG on how to structure a setting with respects to villages, towns, and roads. (Which itself isn't very Points-of-Light'ish.)

Quote from: Kellri;355040Hasbro games are a lot like Thai ladyboys. They might look good, and talk a good game, but appearances can be most deceiving.

Hasbro owns Avalon Hill.

Imagine my surprise when I was offered "the best game of Panzerblitz in my life" by a petite, long-haired beauty in Chiang Mai, only to see her whip out some A&A crap once we got upstairs.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;355149Imagine my surprise when I was offered "the best game of Panzerblitz in my life" by a petite, long-haired beauty in Chiang Mai, only to see her whip out some A&A crap once we got upstairs.

"Dear Penthouse Forum, I know this may sound incredible..."

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;355158"Dear Penthouse Forum, I know this may sound incredible..."

!i!

"...then I crossed the Maginot Line and went straight up Flak Alley..."

Quote from: Stuart;355093Very nice map.

It is indeed!

Seanchai

Quote from: Windjammer;355021Behold my gift of reconciliation:

I like it, I am particularly impressed that you painted it. Not quite up to painting maps myself. Draw them yes, use computer tool yes, painting not yet.

After reading the inital 3 core books of 4e I was struck how sparse the rules outside of combat were. That and the presentation of Fallcrest and Nentir Vale caused me to say in my review of 4e that portion of the game is a throwback all the way back to the original edition of D&D.


From refereeing 4e myself I found the combat/encounter system itself work well with sandbox play. I keep a card index of monster and NPC stats along with a card summarizing the standard actions. I just pull out what I need and don't have to crack open the rulebook. Which is a huge bonus for a rules heavy RPG.

My main dislike of 4e is the high heroic feel of the classes and the package of powers. I prefer a gritter feel to the abilities of the characters and 4e doesn't do that well. The system could if you were willing to spend the time to make new classes and new powers.

The ritual system fits perfectly with the general feel of magic in the Majestic Wilderlands. With is why I adapted the basic concept for my Swords & Wizardry supplment the Majestic Wilderlands.

Quote from: Windjammer;355021Rob "Points of Light" Conley - this one's for you. Hope you like it.

Appreciate it.

Rob Conley

P.S. Do you have a link to the enworld discussion.

Quote from: estar;355166I like it, I am particularly impressed that you painted it. Not quite up to painting maps myself. Draw them yes, use computer tool yes, painting not yet.

It's dead easy and I'm not really skilled at it either. I use glossy acrylics which border on watercolours. What I love is just adding layers on layers on layers of paint to create a depth effect of sorts. The FR map was a rushed job, really. To see what I'm talking about, watch the sea area in  this one. I painted it some while ago, and some hex numbers are off, but I still like it.

Quote from: estar;355166From refereeing 4e myself I found the combat/encounter system itself work well with sandbox play. I keep a card index of monster and NPC stats along with a card summarizing the standard actions. I just pull out what I need and don't have to crack open the rulebook. Which is a huge bonus for a rules heavy RPG.

The main thing I'm missing from 4E for sandboxing are rules to emulate overland travel. The core rules seem to suggest to handle it via the skill challenge subsystem (see the "Lost in the Wilderness" skill challenge in the 4E DMG, page 79). But that strikes me as a bit too simplistic, and I'm not fond of skill challenges anyway. Ever since my players first used the fancy dice in Runebound (we're also boardgaming regularly) they've been itching to import that "overland travel"-mini game to an RPG. God knows, maybe we do that in our upcoming 4E campaign, but even that needs a lot of work.

Quote from: estar;355166P.S. Do you have a link to the enworld discussion.

Here ya go.

PS. I'm glad you liked my map. I absolutely love your crayon-drawn maps of the Wilderlands (stuff like this one) and of the City State (have it on my harddisk, can't find it online anymore).

Quote from: Elliot Wilen Imagine my surprise when I was offered "the best game of Panzerblitz in my life" by a petite, long-haired beauty in Chiang Mai, only to see her whip out some A&A crap once we got upstairs.

Down in the bar, I thought she had a sweet set of polyhedrals, and those chits...my god, you just don't see rounded edges like that anymore! Anyways, I was sold when she grabbed me by my dicebag and huskily whispered in my ear the three magic words: Advanced Squad Leader. I nearly blew a gasket on my panzerfaust - this is what international travel is all about, I thought. Later, when we got back to my guesthouse, I waited patiently while she was in the toilet, I assumed she was just sorting all the counters for the night's scenario. When she finally came out, my dreams disappeared like the wind - she was holding a copy of Memoir '44 and I knew what I should have known all along - ASL has a way bigger bulge than that.

Very cool map!

Quote from: Windjammer;355172The main thing I'm missing from 4E for sandboxing are rules to emulate overland travel. The core rules seem to suggest to handle it via the skill challenge subsystem (see the "Lost in the Wilderness" skill challenge in the 4E DMG, page 79). But that strikes me as a bit too simplistic, and I'm not fond of skill challenges anyway. Ever since my players first used the fancy dice in Runebound (we're also boardgaming regularly) they've been itching to import that "overland travel"-mini game to an RPG. God knows, maybe we do that in our upcoming 4E campaign, but even that needs a lot of work.

Just create a chance of something interesting happening and if you roll it make something up. If you rather not make so many random rolls just make up one or two things per four hour period.

QuoteYou been on the road for another two hours. As you crest a hill you see downslope from you a cart with two persons gesturing wildly at each other.

The trick to look at your everyday life, think of all the people you meet and see during the day. Convince stores, at a stop light, etc. Think of anything unusual and twist into something that would exist in your setting. Sprinkle three or four through the day and you are well on your way to making a campaign seem part of a living breathing world.

If you feel that they could get lost just don't refer to a map and verbally describe where they going. Occasionally you give them a choice of where to go.

QuoteOK you been moving along the ridge line for the past three hours. It ends and slops down into a gap. Do you up the other side and follow the ridgeline on the other side or follow the gap to the left or right.

If they are smart they will stop and try to figure out where North is and use some common sense. If following some natural feature you need to look around every so often to make you understand where the terrain is taking you. If they are not paying attention they will get lost quite easily.

The final trick is not bombard them with choices every footstep. Three to six should do quite nicely.

In short there nothing to be gained by having mechanics for Overland Travel (other than how far you travel). It a matter of presentation and control of pacing by the referee.

Nice-looking map. But surely each hex being 40 miles across is way too big a scale for a hexcrawl "there's only one interesting thing per hex" type game, no? Most such maps, IME, tend to have scales of 4-6 miles per hex.

Quote from: T. Foster;355265Nice-looking map. But surely each hex being 40 miles across is way too big a scale for a hexcrawl "there's only one interesting thing per hex" type game, no? Most such maps, IME, tend to have scales of 4-6 miles per hex.

You're totally right about the scale. I guess anyone stealing the map can always ditch the scale and replace it with something closer to his tastes.

I'm fine with the scale as is, but that has to do with 4E specifics (e.g. combat time) that aren't pertinent to your point or your tastes.

That said, there's always the possibility to run so-called "complex encounters" sc. interlocked sets of in-game situations where one triggers the next (say, an ambush with three waves) and you sorta end up having more than "one interesting thing per hex".

In any case, I'll sure make adjustments to the scale myself if it works out poorly in my campaign.