So what is the consensus here about FFG's 40k games like Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Death Watch, Black Crusade & Imperial Guard?

I'm personally a Rogue Trader fan, and have read a bit of the other game lines to verify that they're not what I'm interested in playing.

They are pretty good.  If you can handle the usual skills, talents, and percentage dice game.

I enjoyed Dark Heresy 1e, but I'd rather a faster playing version.

I haven't played Rogue Trader or Black Crusade, but I've demo'd Death Watch which was fun, but I'm unsure if I'd run it. I also demo'd Only War (the IG game) and that was an incredible letdown for me. But I ran Imperial Guard campaigns using Traveller 20 years ago, so I admit that I am probably biased.

Quote from: Spinachcat;824369I also demo'd Only War (the IG game) and that was an incredible letdown for me.

Could you elaborate on the letdown?

Well the thing is Only War was suppose to be a supplement to Dark Heresy, but for some reason they thought it was a good idea to make it its own game line.  I think it is because they loved the Black Crusade fixes and didn't feel like using the restrictive career paths that Dark Heresy 1E follows.

That is why Only War feels like a hollow shell.  It was intended to be a supplement and not a game line.

I've played both Dark Heresy and Death Watch.
They were OK. nothing to write home about.
I fund the system kind of flavorless and a bit dull really.
It could have just been the DM though, he was pretty hopeless at running the game.

Quote from: Snowman0147;824374That is why Only War feels like a hollow shell.  It was intended to be a supplement and not a game line.

Hollow shell? Shit, that book looks terrifyingly complete to me. I haven't run it though, what's actually missing?

I like Dark Heresy, what little I've played of it and Rogue Trader looks like it could be lot of fun as well... with the right group (no GW fanboys).
Somewhere on another thread here recently I saw someone mention running a 40K RPG limited to the original Rogue Trader (the wargame) version of the setting and that would be my inclination as well. It's the version I'm most familiar with and less likely to meet up with the dreaded 'canon nazi'.
It's a lot wilder/weirder, open-ended and more humorous... though probably just as deadly.

The talents had flavored and fit well with the setting and some of the skills are specificly designed for the setting.  You must of had a bad game master.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;824390Hollow shell? Shit, that book looks terrifyingly complete to me. I haven't run it though, what's actually missing?

Mechanic wise nothing.  Fluff wise it covers every thing that should be important for the average IG soldier.  So yeah by itself it is complete.

I am, however, comparing the game to other lines to it which are more flesh out in their settings.  Only War doesn't even get its own sector instead it uses a sub sector from Dark Heresy 1E sector.  I guess what I am saying is that it could use a few more supplements to flesh out the setting of that sub sector at the least.  In terms of support Dark Heresy 1E, Rogue Trader, and even Deathwatch (which is even more limited than Only War) has more backing.

Quote from: Snowman0147;824400Mechanic wise nothing.  Fluff wise it covers every thing that should be important for the average IG soldier.  So yeah by itself it is complete.

Not that I'm defending a game I only have a slim chance of running, but that doesn't really sound like a "hollow shell". It might even be termed praise depending on how highly one ranks "self-contained" in an RPG book's virtues.

I'd be interested to hear more about its other flaws however. Stuff that isn't apparent from reading alone.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;824503Not that I'm defending a game I only have a slim chance of running, but that doesn't really sound like a "hollow shell". It might even be termed praise depending on how highly one ranks "self-contained" in an RPG book's virtues.

I'd be interested to hear more about its other flaws however. Stuff that isn't apparent from reading alone.

Which I had added that other paragraph in which I compare it to other Warhammer 40K RPG games that Fantasy Flight had made.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;824371Could you elaborate on the letdown?

I love IG in 40k. I've run lots of IG using Traveller and our crew has loved it. PCs die like gnats, often in suicidal clashes in hopes to break the enemy in the name of the Emperor to win the day for the Imperium. It was a game of great heroism when you were the underdog. You're not the best and brightest like the Inquisition. You're not supersoldiers of Astartes. You're not even the cyborgs of Mechanicus. You are a terrified mook with a lasgun, trying not to get smashed by your own tanks and long guns.

I got none of the flavor I recognize as IG from Only War. Instead, it was Space Rambo with too many rules.

Quote from: Simlasa;824393Somewhere on another thread here recently I saw someone mention running a 40K RPG limited to the original Rogue Trader (the wargame) version of the setting and that would be my inclination as well.

That would be great fun. I'm actually interested in hunting down the pre-40k game and running a RPG in that setting.

To be fair Spinachcat the devs did in fact said that you DON'T play as ordinary IG soldiers.  You are a elite special squad that proved itself in the battlefield already.  That is why you get the feeling that they are space rambos because that is exactly what you are.  The only people that are suppose to die a lot are your comrades.

Warhammer 40k is what sucked me into the world of tabletop games in the first place and I spend most of my youth entirely absorbed by GW games before D&D captured me in my late teens.

So seeing my two big loves in gaming combined really got me excited when the first edition of DH arived.

In general, I love the games, I think the designers have a great grasp of the setting and a better approach to realising it than GWs own. The books are great reads and many are worth buying just for the read and art. The mechanical design is solid, though not the most inspiring, imo.

That said, I am aprehensive about the sytem being to rules heavy and simulationist for me and mine. PCs and charakter creation are based heavily on the use of talents and I tend to play with many casual gamers (and even the less casual gamers I tend to play with prefer to use only a small part of their brain on rules). I feel that remembering 5-20 talents and what they do will be taxing on them.

On the other side of the screen, I'm not really to fond of monsters being designed just as PCs. You really need to know all talents and traits to run the opposition effectively and properly see how tough the enemies will be.

Basically, this is a system mastery based game, like pathfinder or 3rd edition, and just don't want to invest the time of gaining system mastery, when I could spend my gaming time on setting work and campaign design.

I would have to strip down the system to be more rules light, but that would, of course, take time as well. Still intend to run a kick ass WH40k campaign (or two or three or ten) one day.