I very rarely roll secret, and then probably 60% to 70% of those rolls are meaningless ones just to keep the players guessing.  (For some reason, when I start making meaningless rolls, the players are a little more focused on getting on with the game, too.  Not sure why.)  

If making the roll is necessary right now for consistency and fairness, and it absolutely will give too much information by the player seeing the roll, then I'll make the roll in secret.  Otherwise, I'll try to find a way to let the player make the roll.  

For example, one thing I do a lot is delay the roll until the player roll result will produce something immediately obvious. Someone is sneaking up on them.  I'll roll stealth now.  Then let the players roll Perception as soon as a failure means they get attacked right away.  If they succeed, set the distance to further away, and earlier in time.  Sure, it monkeys with time flow a little, but unless the players are currently doing something time sensitive, that does not matter.

I'm from the school of role play frequently, roll play infrequently...the big stuff when everyone has something on the line, those are the rolls we all stare down and I think my players deserve to hang on the edge of their seats as the die clatters until it lands on doom or desire. So yeah out in the open all the time...it's part of the visceral experience.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1090416I very rarely roll secret, and then probably 60% to 70% of those rolls are meaningless ones just to keep the players guessing.  (For some reason, when I start making meaningless rolls, the players are a little more focused on getting on with the game, too.  Not sure why.)  

If making the roll is necessary right now for consistency and fairness, and it absolutely will give too much information by the player seeing the roll, then I'll make the roll in secret.  Otherwise, I'll try to find a way to let the player make the roll.  

For example, one thing I do a lot is delay the roll until the player roll result will produce something immediately obvious. Someone is sneaking up on them.  I'll roll stealth now.  Then let the players roll Perception as soon as a failure means they get attacked right away.  If they succeed, set the distance to further away, and earlier in time.  Sure, it monkeys with time flow a little, but unless the players are currently doing something time sensitive, that does not matter.

You do exactly as I do, so I could just state as much - save that I had not come up with the short-step-back-in-time trick. I find that nifty, and I may well use it soon. Thank you.

Quote from: S'mon;1090388I solve this by rolling the DC for the trap - d20+10 instead of 20, say - vs the PC's Passive Per.
If a PC invests enough in stealth to never be spotted that is not a problem IMO. Nothing wrong with one guy being the super ninja.

I certainly like this better, at least some randomness is back in

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1090416I very rarely roll secret, and then probably 60% to 70% of those rolls are meaningless ones just to keep the players guessing.  (For some reason, when I start making meaningless rolls, the players are a little more focused on getting on with the game, too.  Not sure why.)  

If making the roll is necessary right now for consistency and fairness, and it absolutely will give too much information by the player seeing the roll, then I'll make the roll in secret.  Otherwise, I'll try to find a way to let the player make the roll.  

For example, one thing I do a lot is delay the roll until the player roll result will produce something immediately obvious. Someone is sneaking up on them.  I'll roll stealth now.  Then let the players roll Perception as soon as a failure means they get attacked right away.  If they succeed, set the distance to further away, and earlier in time.  Sure, it monkeys with time flow a little, but unless the players are currently doing something time sensitive, that does not matter.

I try to do this too - if you wait for a perception check till just before the ambush for example, the players are about to find out about it anyway in a second, so no harm them making the roll. Traps are the same. Most times it can be done this way. I like the moving back in time a bit idea too, handy.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090065Do you use secret rolls or keep it all out in the open?

I don't announce what kind of rolls my NPCs are doing. Player characters can talk to NPCs to get a feel for the kind of roll they might use though. An NPC might say "I think you're lying." Before doing his roll.

And I don't reveal to the players what NPCs have rolled, either.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090065I roll Perception/Notice checks for PCs. As well as most social checks. The characters wouldn't know when they "won" a contest because the NPC might be way better than them at the social skill. I found me making the rolls is better for dealing with NPC lies.

GM: Roll Insight

Player: 7?

GM: Yeah, your PC believes the NPC

Player: (thinks the NPC is lying based on the low roll)

I tell my players about Predator, the film, when the Special Ops team is moving through the jungle, literally invisible to the guerrillas they are stalking. But, the SpecOps team has no knowledge of the extraterrestrial hunter stalking THEM, who hears & sees them as if they were a marching band, despite their exceptional stealth.  

If players know they missed certain rolls, THEY KNOW THEY MISSED CERTAIN ROLLS which informs their RP behavior - sometimes. Usually?

Do you use secret rolls or keep it all out in the open?

I generate a set of random D20 rolls ahead of time and cross them off as they are used, this combined with knowing what the characters awareness stat is allows me to decide who does and doesn't notice something happening.