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Okay there's been several threads talking about transitioning to 3e, and issues with 3e Feats, to which I've responded that Fantasy Craft solves most if not all of the issues raised. So it's been my experience that a *lot* of people that are not Fantasy Craft haters or anything simply say "I don't get it." or "It's too heavy crunch". My contention is the complexity is not too far off normal Pathfinder or 3.x - it's just bound together differently which can cause most people used to 3.x/PF to throw a gear.

And let's face it - Fantasy Craft is intimidating to dive into. It's a *massive* book. But one should understand its a PHB, DMG and MM all in one book. So that's a big part of its size. And while it has art, (and it's good clean black-and-white line art) it's also fairly sparse... so it is text-dense with lots of tables.

So let me lay the ground-rules for the thread.

1) No politics. except as it pertains to your gaming tribalism. If you're a 1e fanboy (like me) and want to come in here and shoot at Fantasy Craft - perfectly fine as long as its in good faith.
2) The goal here, despite my bias, is not to force anyone to do anything. If my presentation of something doesn't suit you when we're at a particular stage of discussion, feel free to chime in.
3) Stages - I know how you nerdzerkers work, so I'm going to take this in sections. I'll highlight the sections side-by-side and open it up for discussion. Then we'll move on once we can generally agree we've presented them fairly. When we move on to the next stage/section let's try to focus on that section - but keep it open to calling back to design ideas established in the previous sections. I don't want to get bogged down on too many details about personal tastes rather than sticking to design function pros/cons.
4) Bias. I like Fantasy Craft. But I don't run it, have no interest in running it (or any other version of d20) in the foreseeable future. I did a lot of designwork for 3.x and ran PF for years as well as 5e. I literally have no dog in the hunt to prove your favorite edition is shit. My goal here is to hoist them up for autopsy and put any mysteries about Fantasy Craft to rest and lay them bare for us all to have a 300-page+ discussion to end all discussions about them.

Let's start with a few things that need to be said...

So What IS Fantasy Craft
Fantasy Craft was an attempt by the creators of Spy Craft (Alex Flagg and Patrick Kapera) to rebuild 3e from the ground up with an entirely different sense of mechanical rigor to the system. Every aspect of the system is inspected and re-tuned and the whole thing is deconstructed to be used as a toolkit approach to "D&D"-style (and any other style) of fantasy or gaming in general.

It is designed to bolster social-play as well as tactical-play. It has many sub-systems not inherent to D&D or Pathfinder, and at a fundamental level changes some of the assumptions that underpin what everyone assumes about either system.

Since it is a toolkit, Fantasy Craft does not have an implicit setting. It's designed for you to take your favorite setting and slap the Fantasy Craft system on top of it and get rolling. It does have a handy-dandy translation guide in the back to bring your D&D and Pathfinder characters over. This toolkit approach lets the GM create their settings and tune the system up/down/sideways so that mechanics exemplify whatever the needs of the setting requires. By the designers own words Fantasy Craft is designed to handles high-fantasy, low-fantasy, sword-and-sorcery, and anything in-between and adjacent to them. It's that flexible.

Enough prattle. Let's get this autopsy started. Kick the music.

Stage 1 Character Generation
In the Beginning, There Were Stats

Fantasy Craft, Pathfinder, 3x all use the same stats. They all have the same general ranges - in Fantasy Craft ranges are from 8 to 18 with 10 being Average. Each stat has a modifier associated with it. This is largely the same with Pathfinder and 3.x, they differ is that Fantasy Craft is a point-buy (you get 36 points to purchase stats, with a sliding scale of value), vs. the usual methods of stat-generation in 3.x and PF.

Where they *really* differ in subtle, but significant ways is what these stats govern.

Strength - Modifiers from Strength are applied to: Melee attacks, Damage from Melee, Unarmed, Hurled weapons and associated skill checks. This is uniform between Pathfinder, and D&D.

Dexterity - In D&D and Pathfinder - Dexterity modifiers are applicable to Ranged Attacks, AC, and Reflex saves and associated skill checks. in Fantasy Craft, your Dex Modifier is applied to Ranged Attacks, Initiative, Defense*, and Reflex Saves. (we'll talk about Defense later - it's basically AC... but not due to Armor).

Constitution - In D&D and Pathfinder - Constitution modifiers are applicable to HP/lvl, Fortitude Saving throws.  In D&D Constitution modifiers are applied also to Concentration checks. In Fantasy Craft - Constitution modifiers are applied to Vitality (HP), Fortitude Saves and your Constitution score dictates your starting Wounds*(We'll talk about Wounds later).

Intelligence - In D&D and Pathfinder - Intelligence scores is applicable to determining Spells Cast Per day and the Level of Spell possible. Number of languages. Number of skill points gained each level. The modifier is applied to Int-based skills. Wizards gain bonus spells based on their Intelligence score. In Fantasy Craft, Intelligence modifier governs number of skills points per level, and Knowledge Checks*(we'll examine Knowledge checks later - they're a special bonus of applying your Int mod to skills where you have special interests in called Studies).

Wisdom - In D&D and Pathfinder - Wisdom modifiers are applicable to Will Saving Throws, and skills related to the Wisdom stat. It also modifies Bonus spells for Clerics, Druids and Rangers including determining what level of Spells one can attain. In Fantasy Craft Wisdom modifies related skills, and it determines the the starting number of Arcane Spells Known+ ones Spellcasting skill (yeah this is a big deal we'll talk about later).

Charisma -  In D&D and Pathfinder - Charisma modifiers are applicable to Cha-based skill checks, Checks used to influence others. Channeling for Clerics and Paladins against Undead (Turning), and bonus spells for Bards, Paladins and Sorcerers based on their score. In Fantasy Craft - Charisma modifiers are applicable to Cha-based skill checks, as well as Lifestyle sub-system rolls (this is a subsystem for downtime and carousing and a bunch of other stuff), as well as acting a DC modifier *against* your spell saves when you cast spells at others.

Summary

Stat-ranges and values are almost identical. Modifiers are identical. Application of these modifiers are where things start to shift as Fantasy Craft plugs them into new systems and retooled systems unknown to to D&D and Pathfinder

Intelligence, Charisma, and Wisdom all plug into an entirely different spellcasting system. There is a social system "Lifestyle" that leverages Charisma. Intelligence rules over skillpoint acquisition and greatly impacts spellcasting because Spellcasting is a skill in Fantasy Craft - which we'll go over at length when we get to the Magic system and touch upon in the Skill system.

Feel free to discuss. Next item within the Character Gen Stage 1 is Races/Origins. I plan on pulling some 5e in here too because I think it errs closer in some ways to Fantasy Craft than the others.

For what it's worth color me intrigued.  I'm sure you'll touch on it but key questions I already have ( feel free to ignore or at least answer later)

• is armor damage resistance?
• is there a long or fairly broad list of skills?
• how broad are the studies under intelligence?

Either way I will be following this, thanks.

I kind of like (and am currently running) 5e, Miss some of the things about Savage worlds, and love a less bloated skill version of gurps, so I'm curious to see how this scratches my various itches.

Quote from: LiferGamer;1138378For what it's worth color me intrigued.  I'm sure you'll touch on it but key questions I already have ( feel free to ignore or at least answer later)

• is armor damage resistance?
• is there a long or fairly broad list of skills?
• how broad are the studies under intelligence?

Either way I will be following this, thanks.

I kind of like (and am currently running) 5e, Miss some of the things about Savage worlds, and love a less bloated skill version of gurps, so I'm curious to see how this scratches my various itches.

Short replies but yeah we'll dig deep into it -

1) Armor absorbs damage in Fantasy Craft. Defense is based on Dex Modifier plus Class Defense bonus. Some classes are naturally better at defending in combat than others.
2) Skill list for Fantasy Craft clocks in at 20 skills. But there are Interests, and Knowledges that supplement these things for more "free form" play. We'll dig into those specifics when we cover skills in this Character generation section
3) Studies are limitless. They're literally topics you and the GM agree based on the setting and your character's background that your character has some kind of academic interest in. The beauty of this is that *any* character can have them and apply them in-game. A soldier might study armor-construction - so when faced with a situation where this study might be applicable to any other skill-check they can apply the bonus. The real strength of it is you can customize the scope of these studies as you see fit with the GM and it can really add color to your character.

Quote from: tenbones;1138364Feel free to discuss. Next item within the Character Gen Stage 1 is Races/Origins. I plan on pulling some 5e in here too because I think it errs closer in some ways to Fantasy Craft than the others.

   Looking forward to this. The Races section is where Fantasy Craft really starts to set itself apart from the pack.

Based on what's been posted so far, I love the idea of a Defense score separate from armor as DR. This has long been an issue of mine with D&D, since I've never liked armor mechanics that made you harder to hit, as opposed to reducing damage. This places more emphasis on the ability to dodge or deflect attacks as a primary defense, while keeping armor as an additional layer of defense in the event that you fail to evade attack.

I'm also inclined to like the changes made to spell casting attributes, although I have mixed feelings about them. On the plus side I've always considered Wisdom to be the central attribute associated with any type of mystical practice (assuming that we're going with the 6 attribute set traditionally used in D&D, which I think has its issues, but that's another matter). And I also like the idea of making Charisma the mental equivalent of "Strength", determining how strong your spells are (spell DC).

This setup makes the three metal attributes more analogous with the physical attributes: Strength/Charisma, Dexterity/Intelligence, and Constitution/Wisdom. And also forces spell casters to weigh their choices between all three mental attributes, much the same way that warriors must weigh their choices between Strength, Dexterity or Constitution. The issue with this, however, is that Dexterity and Constitution have always been important choices for EVERYONE, including spell casters (specially low HP, unarmored mages). Now they have to split their selections between ALL mental attributes, plus Dexterity and Constitution as well.

So this change, while interesting, is ultimately more punitive for spell casters than other characters. At least depending on how much impact each of these attributes have on spell casting.

Races/Species/Origins

D&D 3.5 - Standard race templates have ability adjustments for varying core races. All of the bonuses are either +2 or -2 with the exception of the Half-Orc which has two stats that have -2 penalties. Each race has the benefit of a "Favored Class" which removes XP penalties for multi-classing as long as the Favored Class is the only other class dipped into. Each race has specific racial traits designed to highlight cultural aspects as well as physical qualities.

Core Races for D&D 3.5
Human: No ability adjustments, Favored class Any. Traits: Medium size. Base speed 30-ft. 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 additional skill point at every level. Humans get 1 extra Feat at first level.

Dwarf: +2 Con, -2 Cha. Favored class Fighter. Traits: Medium size, Base speed 20-ft but can move full speed with medium/heavy armor, Darkvision 60-feet, +4 Dodge vs. Giant subtype monsters, +1 bonus on attack rolls vs. orc and goblinoid subtypes. +2 bonus to saving throws against poison, spells, and spell-like abilities. +4 bonus on resisting Bull Rush or Trip attacks while standing. +2 on Perception checks relating to "stonework". Proficiency with dwarven waraxes and urgroshes which are not treated as "exotic". +2 bonus to Appraise checks relating to stone or metal items. +2 bonus to Craft checks relating to metal or stonework.

Elf: +2 Dex, -2 Con. Favored class Wizard. Traits: Medium size. Base speed 30-ft. Immune to magical sleep effects. +2 bonus to saves vs. enchantment spells or effects. Low-Light Vision. Elves are proficient in longswords, rapiers, longbow, and shortbow. +2 bonus on all Listen, Search and Spot checks. Can make a free Search check if they pass within 5-feet of a secret or concealed door.

Gnome: +2 Con, -2 Str. Favored class Bard. Traits: Small size (+1 AC and +1 to attacks). +4 bonus to Hide checks. Base speed 20-ft. Can only lift/carry 25% of Medium characters and use only small weapons. Proficiency with gnomish hook-hammers. +2 bonus to saving throws vs. Illusions. +1 Difficulty to any Illusions cast against other creatures Saves. +1 bonus to hit vs. Kobolds and goblinoid subtypes. +4 AC vs. Giant-types. +2 bonus on Listen checks. +2 bonus on Craft Alchemy. Spell like Abilities 1/day: Speak with Animals. If their Cha. is 11+ they also get Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Presitidigitation.

Half-elf: No ability adjustments, Favored class Any. Traits: Medium size. Base movement 30-ft. Immunity to Sleep effects. +2 bonus to saves vs. enchantment effects. Low Light vision. +1 bonus to Listen, Search, Spot checks. +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. Considered "elven" for the purposes of using elven subtype gear.

Half-orc: +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Favored class Barbarian. Traits: Medium size. Base speed 30-ft. Darkvision 60-ft. Can use Orc-specific items.

Halfling: +2 Dex, -2 Str. Favored class Rogue. Traits: Small size (+1 AC and +1 to attacks). +4 bonus to Hide checks. Can only lift/carry 25% of Medium characters and use only small weapons. 20-ft speed. +2 saves vs. fear effects. +1 bonus to all saves. +2 bonus to Climb, Jump, and Move Silently checks. +1 bonus to attack with slings and thrown weapons. +2 bonus to Listen checks.


Core Races for Pathfinder - Standard race templates for Pathfinder is slightly more detailed. Each race has ability modifiers that vary more. Favored classes in Pathfinder grant +1 HP or +1 Skill point if the character levels up in one of those Favored classes.

Dwarves: +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Traits: Medium size, Base speed 20-ft, +4 Dodge vs. Giant subtype monsters, +1 bonus on attack rolls vs. orc and goblinoid subtypes. +2 bonus to saving throws against poison, spells, and spell-like abilities. +4 bonus on resisting Bull Rush or Trip attacks while standing. +2 on Perception checks relating to "stonework". Proficiency with battleaxes, heavy picks, warhammers and any weapon with the "dwarven" descriptor.

Elves: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con. Traits: Medium size. Base speed 30-ft. Low-light vision. Immune to magical Sleep effects. +2 bonus saves vs. enchantment effects. +2 bonus to overcome Magic Resistance. +2 bonus to Spellcraft checks. +2 bonus to Perception checks. Proficiency with longbows, longswords, rapiers and shortbows.

Gnomes: +2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str. Traits: Small sized. +1 bonus to AC, -1 to CMB/CMD, +4 to Stealth checks. 20-ft base speed. Low-Light Vision. +4 AC vs. Giant subtype creatures. +1 Difficulty to any Illusions cast against other creatures Saves. +1 bonus to hit vs. Kobolds and goblinoid subtypes. +4 AC vs. Giant-types. +2 bonus on Listen checks. +2 bonus on Craft Alchemy. Spell like Abilities 1/day: Speak with Animals. If their Cha. is 11+ they also get Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Presitidigitation. +1 attack bonus against repitilian or goblinoid subtypes. +2 saves vs. Illusions. +2 bonus to Perception checks. +2 bonus to a singular Craft or Profession skill. Proficiency with any "gnome" subtype weapon.

Half-Elves: +2 to one attribute. Traits: Medium sized. 30-ft base speed. Low Light Vision. Free Skill Focus feat. Immune to magical Sleep effects. +2 save vs. enchantment effects. +2 bonus to Perception checks. Two Favored classes.

Half-Orcs: +2 to one attribute. 30-ft base speed. Darkvision 60-ft. +2 bonus to Intimidate checks. Count as Human or Orc for the purposes of effects related to race. 1/day can fight at 0 or lower HP for 1 round. Proficient with falchions, greataxes and any orc-weapon subtype.

Halflings: +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str. Small sized. +1 bonus to AC, -1 to CMB/CMD, +4 to Stealth checks. 20-ft base speed.+2 bonus saves vs fear effects. +1 bonus on all saves. +2 bonus on Acrobatics and Climb checks. Proficiency with slings and any halfling weapon subtype.

Human: +2 to one attribute. 30-ft base speed. One bonus Feat. +1 Skill point at 1st level and every level thereafter.

WHEW. okay, both Pathfinder and D&D3.5 have *very* similar race choices and traits. The differences that exist are more due to skill-consolidation options which amount to the same thing. Where real differences exist like stat-bonuses being higher with Pathfinder... is significant... but they're really close. While not considered core - let's stipulate that we acknowledge that all the races in Pathfinder and D&D 3.x have sub-species, but as they're not included in the core I'm not going to penalize them for it. But it matters because Fantasy Craft... has all of them and more. We'll pull out their counterparts as necessary in discussion if people want to.

Fantasy Craft
So now we get to Fantasy Craft. Before I start it needs to be explained that your starting character has an Origin - which is your Species wedded to your Specialty. Species basically means "race" in 3.x/PF parlance. Specialty is like "Background" in 5e, but has a *lot* more weight, which we'll get into when we start talking about Class. It's relevant here because part of picking your Species involves picking your Specialty which grants you various mechanical bonuses. So for now - I'm going to stick to Species.

Each Species has sub-species for each one. In order to play one of these sub-species - it requires a Feat. These Species Feats will be covered when we get to Feats. Feats are much more plentiful in this game than D&D3.x or PF. So it's not a "gate" to keep players away or to tax them, as the Species Feats are meaty, and they often open up other beefy Feats specific to that sub-species. The design purpose to play these things with intent - much like people love to lament the power-level of the Drow vs. other Elves. This is a clean justification for that power boost, because you're choosing to buy it in lieu of other options.

Fantasy Craft Species templates provide Attribute bonuses/penalties. Traits. Special abilities or in the case of Humans - a Talent. On paper the attribute bonuses may not seem "equal" - but that's because the Species are balanced across their other abilities and penalties inherent to each species. Attribute penalties and bonuses have far larger impact on the character class choices because of the subtle differences that attributes affect downstream.

All Species have a Type template, which sets up means of locomotion, speed, and special abilities associated for that Type - like Beast, or Lizard, or Folk (which is the common term for "standard" fantasy races

Each Species has their version of "Favored Class" but it's applied to Specialty, not class. It's called Iconic Specialty. If your PC chooses an Iconic Specialty, you gain that Specialty's bonus Feat. We'll cover Specialties and Interests and Alignment when we get to Classes.  

The point I'm trying to make here is *all* of these elements are much more intimate to your PC creation process than simply choosing a Class, and Race and bingo-bango, as we'll see. (it's a lot to cover - I'll edit this page tomorrow and fill it in). If anyone wants me to fill in the cultural assumptions as written about these races just ask - they're pretty interesting, especially given the current climate of gaming. Keep in mind - these cultural considerations are what inform the Species abilities, so you might be a little confused as to why they have the abilities they have. I'll discuss some of the particulars after the list.

Core Races for Fantasy Craft

Drake: +2 Int OR Str, -2 Dex. Large Beast. Maximum Wounds is Con x 1.5, Base speed 30-ft ground. Flying 50-ft. Breath Weapon - 2d6 + Con modifier, Ref Save for half-damage. Iconic Specialties: Acrobat, Barbarian, Bard, Fist Guardian, Lord, Mystic, Rogue, Sorcerer, or Warden. +2 Interests, Natural Attack (Bite and Claw I - upgradeable with Feats). Splinter Race Feats: Elemental Heritage (Fire, Ice, Wind or other elemental drake), Truescale (Cloud, Mountain, Swamp or other terrain drake). Otherwise you're considered a "lesser Drake".

Dwarf: +4 Con, -2 Dex. Medium sized. Base speed 20-ft. Banned Actions: May not use Kick tricks (we'll cover tricks in combat), or make Jump or Swim checks (they're dense and sink like rocks). May choose 1 skill to raise the cap +5 over one's level. Iconic Classes: Keeper or Soldier - if you have a class higher than your levels in either of these classes your starting Action Dice is decreased by 2 (we'll cover Action Dice later). Improved Stability: Dwarves are considered 1 Size category larger for carrying capacity, Trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts as long as they're standing on the ground. + Con modifier bonus to all poison and disease saves. Low Light Vision, Thick Hide 3 - dwarves get 3 points of Damage Reduction as long as they're not wearing armor. If they are - they get the better value. If they get Thick Hide from other sources, these effects stack. Splinter Race Feats: Hill Born (hill dwarf), Lava Born (magma dwarf). If you don't choose these you're a Stone Born (Mountain dwarf).

Elf:+4 Wisdom, -2 Con. Medium sized Fey. Base speed 40-ft. Burden of Ages - any heals to your Vitality are halved. Elf sight - Visual range increments are Wisdom Score x 80. Ignore range penalties for 2nd and 4th range increments while Aiming. Iconic classes: Sage or Scout, if you have a class higher than your levels in either of these classes your starting Action Dice is decreased by 2. Iconic Specialties: Adept, Archer, Aristocrat, Artisan, Druid, Fencer, Lord, Ranger, Vanguard, or Wizard. Light Sleeper - you're never "flat-footed" while sleeping. +1 Appearance (social stat we'll talk about later). Sharp hearing - hearing range increments are equal to Wisdom score x 10-ft, and elves may always act during a surprise round unless they are deafened. Splinter Race Feats: Hart Nation (Wood elf), Owl Nation (Gray elf), Spider Nation (Dark elf), unless you choose one of these, you're a 'High elf'.

Giant: No stat modifiers. Large sized. Reach of 2. Max Wounds are Constitution score x 1.5, Base speed 50-ft. Hurled Proficiency. Improved Stability - Giants are considered 1 Size category larger for carrying capacity, Trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts as long as they're standing on the ground. Natural Attack Trample I attack, this ability is upgradeable. Sterner Stuff - Keen quality attacks are decreased by 4 (this means critical hit threat range due to Keen are lowered). Splinter Race Feats: Elemental Heritage (Fire, Frost, Stone, or other elemental giant) otherwise you're a Hill Giant.

Goblin: +2 Strength, -2 Cha. Small sized. Base speed 20-ft. Maximum Wounds is Constitution score x 2/3 round up. +1 Defense (AC), Ambush Basics Feat, Iconic Classes: Lancer or Priest. Light Sensitive -20 Fortitude save or be Blinded for d6 rounds. Tenacious - +1 Vitality per level gained. Splinter Race Feats - Skull Tribe, Blood Tribe, Bone Tribe, Fang Tribe, Iron Tribe. If you choose none, you're just a 'cave goblin'.

Human: No attribute modifier. Medium Sized. Base speed 30-ft. Humans get 1 Talent (These are special for Humans and we'll go over these at the end of this list). Splinter Race Feats: Angelic Heritage, Devilish Heritage, Draconic Heritage, Faerie Heritage, Elemental Heritage. Unless you choose one of these you're a True Blood Human.

Ogre: +2 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Large sized. Reach of 2. Max Wounds are Constitution score x 1.5, Base speed of 30-ft. Banned Actions: May not make Influence, Outmaneuver or Tumble checks.  Maximum Intimidate and Athletics ranks are +5 over current level max. Iconic Specialties: Artisan, Barbarian, Criminal, Fighter, Gladiator, Guardian, Nomad, Shaman, Sorcerer or Tribesman. Ignores first Fatigue or Shaken condition gained in each scene. Disposition checks against non-Ogres is -10. Splinter Race Feats: Fire Brave (Oni), Sea Brave (Merrow), Stone Brave (Troll), unless you choose one of these, you're an Earth Brave (Plain ol' Ogre).

Orc: +3 Str, +3 Con, -3 Int. Medium sized. Base speed 30-ft. Can always act on Surprise Rounds. Banned Actions: Cannot make a Calm or Influence check. Maximum Intimidate and Survival ranks are +5 over current level. Grueling Combatant - adjacent opponents suffer 2-points of subdual damage if they miss you. Light Sensitive - -20 Fortitude save in brightly lit area or be blinded d6 rounds. Iconic Classes: Burglar or Soldier. Splinter Race Feats - Skull Tribe, Blood Tribe, Bone Tribe, Fang Tribe, Iron Tribe. If you choose none, you're a 'Black blade'.

Pech: (Pechs are any of the shorty races - halflings, gnomes etc) +3 Dex. Small sized. Base speed 30-ft. Maximum Wounds is Constitution score x 2/3 round up/ Maximum Resolve ranks are capped +5 over current level, Hearty Appetite - gains benefit from the first 2 food and drink consumed in a day (okay this take some explaining - in Fantasy Craft regular consumption of food - one meal and drink - will have beneficial effects based on the kind of food. This is a penalty, because Pechs eat a lot in order to get those benefits. I'll cover this when we get to gear). Hurled Proficiency. Iconic Specialties: Acrobat, Adventurer, Bard, Cavalier, Corsair, Merchant, Physician, Rogue, Swindler, or Warden. Splinter Race Feats: Farstride Folk (Hairfoot), Quick-Finger Folk (Gnomes). Unless you choose one of these your'e a 'Lightfoot'.

Rootwalker: Rootwalkers are Groots/Treants/Plant-people) No attribute modifier. Large Biped Plant. Reach of 2. Max Wounds are Constitution score x 1.5. All fire-damage is doubled against you. Iconic Classes: Explorer or Keeper. Free Iron Will Feat. Rootwalkers are never "flatfooted" when sleeping. Being play with -2 proficiences (min 0). -2 Reflex saves when flanked. +5 bonus to Blend/Stealth checks in natural terrain. Thick Hide 2 - Natural damage reduction of 2, stacks with other Thick Hide sources. Racial Feats: New Leaf (Evergreen, ironwood, others) Unless you choose this you're a 'Deeproot'.

Saurian: +2 Dex, +2 to any 1 other Attribute, -2 to any one Attribute. Medium sized. Base speed 30-ft. +1 Defense (AC). Cold Blooded: can eat once per day, but suffers 1 additional die of damage from cold and gain the sickened condition for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 of the cold damage  taken. Low-Light Vision. Natural Attack: Bite and Tailslap II (d8) These attacks can be upgraded with Feats. Splinter Race Feats: Draconic Heritage (Draconian), Jungle Clutch (Chamelon) Swamp Clutch (frogman), unless you choose one of these, you're just a 'Lizard-folk'

Unborn: (Basically any kind of construct: Undead, Automaton, golem, living material, Warforged etc): +2 to any 1 attribute, -4 Cha. Medium sized biped construct. Base speed 20-ft. Electricity does double damage to you. You suffer 1 additional die from falling damage which gains +20 Keen (auto-crit). You being play with -2 proficiencies. You suffer a -2 penalty to all Reflex saves when Flanked. Splinter Race Feats: Special Construction (clay, clockwork, crystal, others). Unless you choose this you're a 'Steel Golem'. Construct condition bonus grants: immune to sneak attack, stress, and subdual damage, as well as poison and disease. Can’t fall unconscious and never gains the bleeding, enraged, fatigued, fixated, frightened, paralyzed, shaken, or sickened conditions.

Whew! okay that's the Fantasy Craft core list. Some observations.

1) While cursory glance will make everyone nod and go "Yep, I see all the regular stuff, and some weird shit." Closer examination will reveal many of these races have roots that go deeper into the system which we haven't gotten to yet. There is far more variety available within each Species that goes far beyond the flat "generic" assumption of the name (or the D&D/PF core races). Since there is no implied setting, they figuratively tossed the kitchen-sink as racial possibilities for YOU as the GM to express your game in any manner possible.

2) Splinter Races - These feats are not just simple mechanical benefits. They have an entirely different implied assumption to the character. For examples, Saurians are Lizardmen - check. But if you take the Splinter Race Feat "Jungle Clutch" you're a member of the Khamai chameleon folk, that gains chameleon powers, and bonuses to climbing with an assumed culture different than the standard Lizard man. Or the Angelic Heritage for Humans, which is their nod to the Aasimar which also has a host of benefits from spending your Feat there.

You'll also note in the core rules there are no Half-orcs or Half-elves. There are rules for them out there in supplementary material but they're largely just Blood Feats presented in the Adventurers Companion that let you go way beyond just being half-orcs or half-elves. They have Gobling blooded, Elf blooded, Orc, Dragon and a whole bunch of stuff. It just didn't make it into the Core rules. That said - Adventurers Companion is indispensable if you're going to use Fantasy Craft, imo. Too much glorious stuff in there.

3) The connections that go deeper into the system - Specialties, Iconic Classes, which we'll dive into during the Class section, is already setting up that connective tissue here. This creates a massively larger variety of possibilities that haven't even yet begun to plug into the core system and we're only at Race selection.

The differences here are that 3.x and PF silo their sub-systems internally. Most of the race options are vanilla, and designed to be balanced conservatively inward. There is very little outward connection to the deeper aspects of the core mechanics other than Preferred Class which only extends to Multi-classing benefits, with minor benefits for singular use in Pathfinder (+1 HP/Skill point). Whereas in Fantasy Craft they're setting your character up with a lot of handholds to customize your character mechanically with the narrative power of 5e's Backgrounds (in FC it's Specialties) cooked in. So let's get on with that in the next set step.

Human Talents (I'll work on this tonight. It's a lot)
Human Talents are special sub-section because they don't really have a corresponding system in Pathfinder or D&D3.x. Basically Human Talents are SUPER beefy "feats" that you have to purchase at Character Generation. They are *powerful* and designed to really make your Human "pop" in terms of how you envision them and to make humans desirable to play. The synergy options you get from Talents and Classes should be obvious, especially when we get to the Classes section.

The List
Adaptable
You can find a solution to almost any problem and it’s usually wholly unexpected.
• Attributes: No modifiers
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Grace under Pressure: You gain a +3 bonus with any roll you boost with an action die. This bonus increases by an additional +1 at Levels 6, 11, and 16.
• Inquisitive Mind: You gain 2 additional Interests.
• Origin Skills: Choose 2 additional Origin skills.

Agile
Your body is quicker than most eyes!
• Attributes: +2 Dexterity
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Double Boost: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Dexterity-based skill checks.
• Natural Elegance: Your Appearance bonus increases by +1.
• Parry: You gain the Parry trick

Charismatic
Your natural presence is almost overwhelming.
• Attributes: +2 Charisma
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Double Boost: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Charisma-based skill checks.
• Encouragement: Once per scene, you may speak to 1 of your teammates for 1 minute to grant them a +1 morale bonus with saving throws until the end of the current scene.

Crusading
You focus is… intense.
Requirements: Alignment
• Attributes: +2 to any 1 attribute, –2 to any 1 attribute
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict 1 additional damage.
• Iron Will: You gain the Iron Will feat
• Higher Calling: Characters with opposing Alignments suffer a –1 penalty with skill checks targeting or opposed by you.
• Sterner Stuff: The keen quality of each attack made against you decreases by 4

Cunning
You’re a survivor who considers every angle and how to exploit it.
• Attributes: +2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Cheap Shot: You gain the Cheap Shot trick
• Sharp Mind: You gain 1 additional skill point per level.
• Tenacious Spirit: You gain 1 additional vitality per level.

Educated
You enjoy all the advantages of a higher education.
• Attributes: +2 Intelligence, –2 Dexterity
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Broad Learning: You gain 2 additional Studies
• If I Recall...: You gain a +5 bonus with Knowledge checks
• Linguist: You gain 2 additional Languages
• Slow and Steady: The cost to activate your Downtime errors and those of your teammates increases by 2 action dice.

Gifted
You’ve found your calling... and mastered it.
• Attributes: +2 to any 1 attribute, –2 to any 1 attribute
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Basic Skill Mastery: You gain the Basic Skill Mastery feat
• Limited Proficiencies: You begin with play with 2 fewer proficiencies (minimum 0).
• Origin Skill: Choose 1 additional Origin skill.
• Sharp Mind: You gain 1 additional skill point per level

Grizzled
You’ve survived things other folk can barely imagine.
• Attributes: +2 Constitution, –2 Dexterity
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
• Last Chance: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost any save.
• Rock Solid: You gain 1 additional wound per level.

Hardy
You can feel the blows, but they don’t really bother you much.
• Attributes: +2 Constitution
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Double Boost: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Constitution-based skill checks.
• Thick Hide 2: You’re considered to be wearing partial armor that provides Damage Reduction 2. This DR does not stack with other armor (only the best protection applies). If you gain thick hide from multiple sources, your hide offers the highest single DR value + 1 per additional hide benefit (e.g. thick hide 4, thick hide 3, and thick hide 1 offer DR 6).
• Unbreakable: Each time you suffer attribute impairment, it decreases by 1 (minimum 0).

Industrious
You always put your time to good use.
• Attributes: +1 Constitution
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Encouragement: Once per scene, you may speak to 1 of your teammates for 1 minute to grant them a +1 morale bonus with saving throws until the end of the current scene.
• Enlightened Crafting: Your maximum Crafting rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Yeoman’s Work: You gain the Yeoman’s Work feat

Intelligent
You’ve always been the sharpest knife in the drawer.
• Attributes: +2 Intelligence
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Double Boost: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Intelligence-based skill checks.
• Split Decision: As a full action, you may simultaneously take 2 Ready actions, each with separate triggers and reactions. After the first trigger occurs, the other Ready
action is lost.

Methodical
Your thinking may sometimes seem slow and ponderous to others, but you tend to uncover the truth of things with few missteps.
• Attributes: +1 Wisdom
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Enlightened Haggle: Your maximum Haggle rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Enlightened Investigate: Your maximum Investigate rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Free Hint: Once per session, you may request a hint from the GM. If he refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die.
• Origin Skill: Choose 1 additional Origin skill.
• Slow and Steady: The cost to activate your Downtime errors and those of your teammates increases by 2 action dice.

Nimble
You’re light on your feet and quick to avoid harm.
• Attributes: +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength
• Base Speed: 40 ft.
• Called Shot: You gain the Called Shot trick
• Cat Fall: You suffer 1 less die of damage from falling.
• Enlightened Acrobatics: Your maximum Acrobatics rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Last Chance: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost any save.

Ruthless
Whatever it takes, you’re always up for the challenge.
• Attributes: +1 to any 1 attribute, –1 to any 1 attribute
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Always Ready: You may always act during surprise rounds.
• Cheap Shot: You gain the Cheap Shot trick
• Menacing Threat: You may Threaten up to 3 opponents at once. You roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.

Savage
You’re untamed, born and bred far outside civilization.
• Attributes: +2 Strength, –2 Intelligence
• Base Speed: 40 ft.
• Enlightened Survival: Your maximum Survival rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Great Fortitude: You gain the Great Fortitude feat
• Lean Season: You require only 1 common meal per day.

Savvy
You always have a plan... or at least look like you do.
• Attributes: +2 Wisdom, –2 Strength
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Grace under Pressure: You gain a +3 bonus with any roll you boost with an action die. This bonus increases by an additional +1 at Levels 6, 11, and 16.
• If I Recall...: You gain a +5 bonus with Knowledge checks

Single-Minded
Your focus and determination cannot be swayed.
• Attributes: +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict 1 additional damage.
• Enlightened Resolve: Your maximum Resolve rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Relentless Attack: You gain the Relentless Attack trick
• War of Attrition: You may Tire up to 3 opponents at once. You roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately

Stern
When worn and haggard from your trials, you reveal a core a tough as iron.
• Attributes: +2 Strength, –2 Constitution
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Grueling Combatant: Each time an adjacent opponent attacks you and misses, he suffers 2 points of subdual damage.
• Light Sleeper: Sleeping is never a Terminal Situation for you.
• No Pain: You ignore the first fatigued or shaken condition you gain in each scene.
• Relentless Attack: You gain the Relentless Attack trick
• Unbreakable: Each time you suffer attribute impairment, it decreases by 1 (minimum 0)

Striking
Your good looks set hearts aflutter and keep the poets in business.
• Attributes: +2 Charisma, –2 Constitution
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Celebrated: Your Legend increases by 2.
• Engaging Diversion: You may Distract up to 3 opponents at once. You roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.
• Natural Elegance: Your Appearance bonus increases by +1.

Strong
If oxen could arm-wrestle you’d still win every time.
• Attributes: +2 Strength
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Double Boost: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Strength-based skill checks.
• Improved Stability: You’re considered 1 Size category larger for carrying capacity, Trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you are standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying, or riding.
• Shove: You gain the Shove trick

Svelte
You have a predator’s build and natural magnetism.
• Attributes: +2 Charisma, –2 Wisdom
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Enlightened Athletics: Your maximum Athletics rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Rock Solid: You gain 1 additional wound per level.
• Shove: You gain the Shove trick

Unpredictable
Your quicksilver thoughts leave most people reeling.
• Attributes: +1 Intelligence
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Lightning Reflexes: You gain the Lightning Reflexes feat (
• Mix-Up: You gain the Mix-Up trick
• Split Decision: As a full action, you may simultaneously take 2 Ready actions, each with separate triggers and reactions. After the first trigger occurs, the other Ready action is lost.

Vigilant
You’re always on your guard.
• Attributes: +2 Wisdom, –2 Intelligence
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Always Ready: You may always act during surprise rounds.
• Enlightened Notice: Your maximum Notice rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Lightning Reflexes: You gain the Lightning Reflexes feat

Wily
People would like you more if you didn’t say ‘I told you so’ quite so often.
• Attributes: +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
• Engaging Diversion: You may Distract up to 3 opponents at once. You roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.
• Enlightened Tactics: Your maximum Tactics rank increases to your Career Level + 5.
• Mix-Up: You gain the Mix-Up trick

Wise
When you speak, everyone falls silent to hear it.
• Attributes: +2 Wisdom
• Base Speed: 30 ft.
• Double Boost: You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Wisdom-based skill checks.
• Free Hint: Once per session, you may request a free hint from the GM. If he refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die.
• Inquisitive Mind: You gain 2 additional Interests

So there you go. Humans got JUICE.

In a side-by-side comparison Fantasy Craft Races are already more dynamic mechanically, and you have much wider range of differentiation simply based on assumed Feat choices (which I'd include for D&D 3.x and Pathfinder). This will become even more apparent once we move to the next section on Classes and Specialties, then Skills.

We'll do a side-by-side comparison once we have all the basic Character Generation sections posted and take a nice long look at their capabilities. I'd like to open up concept suggestions for these comparisons -

Feel free to get buck wild, and we'll see what we can whip up. But next on the list will be Classes and Specialties (Backgrounds in 5e).

I will say it again (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40534-Why-did-Fantasy-Craft-never-catch-on&p=1086933&viewfull=1#post1086933) it is unfortunate that the open content for Fantasycraft is so muddled. Do you have any pull with Crafty Games? It would be great if they could release an SRD for 3PP to use.

Addition
OK so let's look at this

Here is their declaration of open content.
DESIGNATION OF OPEN CONTENT: Subject to the Product Identity designation above, all portions of Fantasy Craft are designated as Open Game Content.

Here is their declaration of product identity.

DESIGNATION OF PRODUCT IDENTITY: The following items are hereby designated as Product Identity in accordance with section 1(e) of the Open Game License, version 1.0a: Any and all Fantasy Craft logos and identifying marks and trade dress, including all Fantasy Craft product and product line names including but not limited to The Fantasy Craft Rulebook, The Fantasy Craft World Builder's Guide, The Fantasy Craft Primer, Call to Arms, Cloak and Dagger, Epoch, Godspawn, Sunchaser, The Darkest Hour, The Cleansing of Black Spur, the Toolkit series, website support materials (including, but not limited to, all free game support items such as adventures and the Errata Document), and all Fantasy Craft logos; any elements of any Fantasy Craft setting, including but not limited to capitalized names, monster names, magic item names, spell names, organization names, Faction names, project names, characters, monsters, magic items, spells, historic events, and organizations; any and all stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, documents within the game world, quotes from characters or documents, and dialogue; and all artwork, logos, symbols, designs, depictions, illustrations, maps and cartography, likenesses, and poses, except such elements that already appear in the d20 System Reference Document and are already OGC by virtue of appearing there. The above Product Identity is not Open Game Content.


So it will be a pain renaming everything and excising the above elements but once you are done the result is a set of rules that will people can use to push forward the type of system that Fantasycraft represents. It been a year since we talked about it last and browsing their forum it appears to be a mostly dead system. So what you have to lose?

Posting so I can follow along and get notifications...

Yeah, you're not wrong. I don't have any connection to Pat or Alex other than occasional correspondence electronically. Frankly, having dived pretty deep into their fan-driven design-space, where many of those super-fans know the system probably as well as the designers... your words strike particular hard here. Because if they did put out a good SRD, Fantasy Craft might still be moving along. But the loss of momentum on their magic-system opus which... let's say, became a debacle due to the design requirements that took a toll on the two-man company trying to keep their other lines floating, while Fantasy Craft's impact was next to nil on the D&D fanbase, made it worse. If anything that SRD would have been a tremendous lifeline for the system.

But that's just me (and you) talking from the bleachers... I think you're very solid ground. If my intent were to resurrect Fantasy Craft specifically (it's not) I would contact Pat and Alex and do just that. Given the current outlook about D&D3.x on the gaming scene as a whole, I'd rather look at Fantasy Craft as a design-guide of where to bring D&D 6e closer too but more streamlined.

Fantasy Craft is a magnificent alternate-reality D&D that never was. And it likely will always be just that. If that SRD ever drops... it might be pretty damn interesting.1

Well here is a question. Given that Fantasycraft is a fork of the D20 SRD. Would it be possible to apply its ideas and system design to a fork of the 5e SRD? While the open content declaration is problematic for making a copy or clone of fantasycraft. It is expansive enough to be useful to be applied to a different but related system.

Or perhaps reworked to apply to a fork of a classic edition retro-clone. Which could dovetail nicely with the appeal of tersely written systems that many hobbyists currently have.

I bet either effort would refresh the fantasycraft concept enough to create an audience large enough to sustain a regular series of releases.

I am just wrapping up a rewrite of 5e to conform my Majestic Fantasy material. I found 5e to malleable enough to do what I want to do with it. So I don't see any particular problem with it. Similarly I done quite a bit of work with Swords & Wizardry since the original release of my supplement and don't see any issue.

The main thing is not to worry about what Wizards thought the balance of the system should be but rather come up with your own balance. Explain it well and have it make sense.

Which is why Adventures in Middle Earth worked.

The nuts and bolts of my work with a 5e version of my stuff is translating what I did to a 20 level spread. I have to re-read fantasycraft to be more specific but I don't see any particular barriers to 5ecraft. Or going the reverse and collapsing the level spread and number to fit a classic edition.

I definitely think it could be done. 5eCraft (heh) would be a very interesting design prospect. To be honest, I'd not even given two-thoughts about Fantasy Craft until these few threads about Feats and Transitioning back to 3e came up. So I'm sort of re-acquainting myself with the rules, it's fun.

Without jumping too far ahead in this thread and its purpose - I'm personally on the record of being generally against a hard 20-lvl spread. Yet Fantasy Craft does use a 20-lvl spread, but they do some very novel things to mitigate some of the issues. One of which is giving "capstone" abilities at 14th-lvl, which fits within the range of the "sweet-spot" of high-end play. Coupled with the mathematical balance integrated into the game, they transcend my own biases against the 20-lvl spread in a unique way.

Or more likely they applied far more effort that I would have to "skin the cat" in the manner they did. But I recognize they did it this way in order to mirror 3.x as much as possible.

It MIGHT be a fun thing for us to explore in another thread to spitball a 5eCraft after we do this thread. Then we could dive in to seeing how 5e would look with system changes and sub-system additions from Fantasy Craft. I think it would be very interesting for everyone. Let's pin this idea! I'm sure a lot of discussion in this thread will give us some good guidance on where to start in a 5eCraft "draft".

Maybe I should put up a discussion for Spheres of Power and Spheres of might. I think people might like that system allot.

Quote from: tenbones;1138481It MIGHT be a fun thing for us to explore in another thread to spitball a 5eCraft after we do this thread. Then we could dive in to seeing how 5e would look with system changes and sub-system additions from Fantasy Craft. I think it would be very interesting for everyone. Let's pin this idea! I'm sure a lot of discussion in this thread will give us some good guidance on where to start in a 5eCraft "draft".

Sounds good

I vote for fantasy craft.   I never bought it because it seemed to HEAVILY borrow from the rule adjustments to 3e that Mongoose Conan used.  I probably liked the rules version of any D20 game the most, with Mongoose Conan.   DCC is now tied, but those two are different for me, especially the progression of your level making you better at defending yourself, and armor making it harder to hurt you.  Heaven.

One question that comes to mind as we start on the character creation path: How forgiving is FC when it comes to character optimization? With all the moving parts, do you have to be careful when choosing combinations, or can one successfully play to or against archetype and still wind up with a reasonable character?

After all, the other two systems up for comparison are notorious for allowing players to cripple or supercharge a PC with the wrong choices out of the gate.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1139311One question that comes to mind as we start on the character creation path: How forgiving is FC when it comes to character optimization? With all the moving parts, do you have to be careful when choosing combinations, or can one successfully play to or against archetype and still wind up with a reasonable character?

After all, the other two systems up for comparison are notorious for allowing players to cripple or supercharge a PC with the wrong choices out of the gate.

I'm working on the Class posts, it's a lot.

In terms of being forgiving...

It's *extremely* forgiving relative to Pathfinder and D&D3.x.

1) The Feats are so beefy that there literally are no bad choices unless you're intentionally trying to go a radically different direction - and even then it will likely still work.

2) Feat acquisition is far more robust. You acquire Feats faster, even to the point where the GM can award them through role-playing (in terms of training during downtime or whatever).

3) Feat "trees" are never more than three-feats deep and they all build on one another directly. None give you some inherent penalty, or bullshit limpdick bonus to justify some other Feat.

4) Combined with inherent Class abilities as we'll see, the power and flexibility of classes in FC are really powerful. Even the Social-based classes are crazy useful with their Social combat skills being super deadly by setting up roleplaying hooks that can *really* change the course of things. I'm looking forward to covering these classes in particular.

Classes and Feats are *very* distinct from one another. Feats are expressions of what your PC learns or is doing in the game. The Class is the collection of training that defines their profession. Then when we get into Specialties, as the cherry-on-top, these define your background with mechanical benefits that ideally should round out your character quite a bit - and might surprise people in their logic, because it's a big departure from the assumptions of D&D and Pathfinder. Rather than kill sacred cows, they put them in a new pasture.

I'd noticed the Feat and Trick Training favor options when reading through the Forge section in my copy of the core book this weekend, but hadn't fully realized the implications.

I think the Class/Feat distinction of FC is what Star Wars Saga Edition, 4th Edition, and even 5th Edition wanted to do with feats, but the first two were held back by a level of design conservatism. I don't know 5E well enough to comment.

Also, if anyone wants a hardcopy, nobleknight.com has copies of the 2nd printing of the core book (you really want the second printing to get all the errata and clarifications) for $20 US.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1139360I'd noticed the Feat and Trick Training favor options when reading through the Forge section in my copy of the core book this weekend, but hadn't fully realized the implications.

I think the Class/Feat distinction of FC is what Star Wars Saga Edition, 4th Edition, and even 5th Edition wanted to do with feats, but the first two were held back by a level of design conservatism. I don't know 5E well enough to comment.

Exactly. The downstream sub-systems fly beneath the radar until you read them and realize how much impact everything has on the game. Instead of approaching the design that each class is some kind of distinct "species" unto themselves, they want all Feats to be attractive to all people wanting to endeavor in a style of play. Your class just happens to be what your'e trained to do (and multiclassing in FC is *way* better because of the mechanical cohesiveness of the rules), but your Feats are what you excel at by choice. So nothing takes away from your core-class assumptions - a Lancer (mounted warrior) is not a weak-bitch in melee, he just is super-good on a mount. But contextually if he came from a culture with a heavy horseman tradition, a Feat or two in some of the Weapon Styles, and he'd be very dangerous even without his mount. So you don't get the mounted cavalier/paladin issue that you see in Pathfinder or D&D.

In Pathfinder/D&D Feats seem to be made obviously for some classes to do what you expect them to DO regardless of the Feat system. Which is entirely backwards.

Even spellcasters can dive into learning martial abilities and not be screwed in combat if they wanted.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1139360Also, if anyone wants a hardcopy, nobleknight.com has copies of the 2nd printing of the core book (you really want the second printing to get all the errata and clarifications) for $20 US.

This is a STEAL. If you don't own Fantasy Craft and have *any* remote interest in it - this is worth the purchase.

Thanks for the tip-off armchair I grabbed a copy. I've got a couple players that are nostalgic for GURPS including me, but I've been more nostalgic for the old school all dice matter leveled play.

As an aside - I ***HIGHLY*** recommend anyone getting Fantasy Craft core, to get one other book: The Adventurers Companion.

It has a *lot* of content that didn't make it into the Core, plus 4 mini-settings to get your feet wet with the rules, and shows you what can be done with a few twists of a dial.

Quote from: tenbones;11393524) Combined with inherent Class abilities as we'll see, the power and flexibility of classes in FC are really powerful. Even the Social-based classes are crazy useful with their Social combat skills being super deadly by setting up roleplaying hooks that can *really* change the course of things. I'm looking forward to covering these classes in particular.

First off, I just love you for creating this thread. I mentioned FC like a couple weeks back (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42241-Current-WoTC-aside-what-does-your-perfect-D-amp-D-edition-look-like&p=1136156&viewfull=1#post1136156) in that "preferred edition of D&D" thread, and had no idea it was going to get mentioned again, much less get what's basically its own thread. So yeah, I'm happy.

You had a lot of good stuff to say, but I quoted this part specifically because I have (what I think is) an interesting story related to it. I've been baking a little, so I may ramble. Buckle up.

See, a few years back I actually got into a game of Fantasy Craft that lasted a good while. Man, that GM was amazing. He put so much thought into the setting and was so great at reacting to everything we threw at him. And the other players were so great. Just . . . we really did meet pretty much randomly through Infrno and hopped into a game together, and it just worked. One thing was that it was a no-to-low-magic setting with a very good reason; something had happened in the past to seal the old gods away from the world and pollute the world's magic. Magic became so unpredictable and deadly that it stopped being used except by the very rare researcher, and steps were taken in many places to prevent spellcasting from being passed on to the next generation. Yeah, in some places they were scared enough to destroy records and spellbooks and everything. Our adventures took place long after this, after magic had faded into myth for most people. As a result, the world was also a little more technologically advanced than most D&D settings. Not a lot, but there were some spring-powered machines and clockwork people. Street lamps. Things like that. But no phone or TV. It had the trappings of modernity without anything really being functionally different. Like a new skin. But it was really fun.

Ok, so to my point. At one point, we did have to have a discussion about my character's abilities. I focused on Stress damage, and even chose my race and racial feats to boost both how many enemies I could target at once and how much stress damage I could do. And as a social class, the Emissary from the Adventure Companion, I had Intimidate out the wazoo! I was a stress-inducing MACHINE. Which was great, usually, because the actual fighter-dudes were damage-causing powerhouses, and the other dude was pretty destructive as well. Divide and conquer, man. But he used monsters from the book, and some of them that really should be resistant(if not immune) to stress damage, such as certain kinds of elementals, didn't have any such resistance in their write-up. And tbh, when he talked to me about it I agreed with him. It really didn't make sense for my ability to work on certain things. I was like "Hey, let me check some stuff real quick," and a few minutes later I gave him a list of NPC/monster abilities that would make something more resistant in certain ways and in one case outright immune and was clear with him that I was totally fine if he wanted to slap some of those on things if he felt they were appropriate. Like I trusted him not to use it to hose me or anything - he was a good dude. And as far as I know, none of the other guys ever complained and there was no problem. Besides, getting physical more often gave me a good excuse to take a 1-level dip into Martial Artist to give that class a little try(much fun; do recommend) before the game was over.

So I guess I got a bit of advice. Be aware that all those different kinds of damage exist and make sure that creatures that should have resistances do have resistances. Don't let the ones new to Fantasy Craft, like stress, get overlooked in your NPC/creature building. And if you pick something from the book, look over it to see if its resistances(or lack thereof) makes sense.

Yeah! The Social-Based classes and Stress-mechanics are *severely* under-rated. I had a player who ran with a Courtier and envisioned himself like "Littlefinger" from the GoT books. Holy hell, as long as combat hasn't started, this guy was doing things all over the place. Right from the start he was having people set up to be murdered off-stage and immediately moving up the power-structure.

I'm jumping ahead LOL we'll get into that in my next post on Classes. Looking forward to your thoughts!

I went ahead and ordered both books thanks for the recommendations and the insight.

Classes (and Backgrounds/Specialties)

I've been trying to think of how to lay this down as fair comparison. Because this the where the big differences between Fantasy Craft and Pathfinder and D&D3.x really start to go their own ways. Fantasy Craft I'll cover last, simply because there is a *lot* more going on and its sub-systems dig much deeper into the core-mechanics than Pathfinder or 3.x which cleave reasonably close to one another.

I plan on dwelling on Core Classes of D&D/PF/FC that are directly analogous to one another. I'll do a separate deep-dive into the core Fantasy Craft classes that have no analog in *core* rules for D&D/PF - but I encourage anyone that is interested to dig out supplementary analogs from other material to compare and contrast in the thread.

This is the list of Core Classes from each game. I'll do direct comparisons head to head.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4653[/ATTACH]

Prestige Classes/Expert Classes
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4654[/ATTACH]

* - No direct analog doesn't mean you can't play these concepts. They exist as Specialties or in other expressions which we'll get into later
** - Monks are not a class in the core book. However in the supplementary material of the Adventurers Companion they have Martial Artists, which are analogous to the d20 Monk
*** - These are Prestige Classes or as they call them in Fantasy Craft 'Expert Classes'

Something to note - the Fantasy Craft classes are less thematic ideas rather than being thematic professions. They are very specific on what their respective roles are and what their professions mean. They try to remove the nebulous nature that has grown from the previous editions of D&D and get straight to the meat of what they do.

As such some of the traditional classes that are missing in Fantasy Craft appear in other ways to supplement these professions. As a toolkit approach the GM sets the standards of the setting - so some of these classes will be more appropriate than the others, but with the Specialties sub-system and the mechanical heft it brings to the Class system (see below) it gives GM's another handhold to fine-tune their setting to their desire and still give players what they want in a PC.

So before we get into the head-to-head comparison I should talk about Fantasy Craft Specialties because it's a huge part of choosing your Class. 5e sort of uses this in the form of Backgrounds. But Specialties represent your background and inform your Class in terms of flavor and your PC's personal inclinations. Once you pick you species you choose your Specialization then Class. The first thing people should notice is that a many of the standard d20 Classes are represented here as Specializations (which is why I'm putting it after the Class list despite normally choosing it first before Class). These Specialties defuse many of the debates you find on forums about "what IS a Fighter" supposed to represent? or "what is the difference between a Druid vs. a Cleric vs. a Priest? narratively or mechanically?". With Specializations you can have your cake and eat it too - AND come up with entirely new approaches to your concept and express it mechanically? Joe want's to be a "Shaman" but doesn't want to use the Shaman Specialty for whatever reason - he could be a Priest with the Barbarian Specialty? Or whatever you and your GM agree works for both of you. There are MANY ways to skin the proverbial cat of any character concept that goes beyond normal D&D3.x and Pathfinder assumptions.

Fantasy Craft Specializations
Acrobat
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Robber)
• Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Strength or Dexterity scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Fast: Your Speed increases by 10 ft.
• Practiced Athletics: If you spend an action die to boost an Athletics check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.

Adept
You collect lost knowledge from all over the world.
• Bonus Feat: Any 1 Spellcasting feat
• Free Hint: Once per session, you may request a free hint from the GM. If he refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die.
• Heroism: You gain a +1 bonus with all attack and skill checks you make during Dramatic scenes.
• Practiced Search: If you spend an action die to boost a Search check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Turning: Choose a Type from the following list: animal, beast, construct, elemental, fey, horror, ooze, outsider, plant, spirit, or undead. Once per combat you may Turn characters of this Type.

Adventurer
You chart your own course, exploring tombs one day and rescuing damsels the next.
• Bonus Feat: Adventurer's Luck
• Glory-Bound: You may purchase Heroic Renown for 40 Reputation per rank
• More than Luck: You gain 1 additional starting action die.

Archer
You've made a living by the bow, as a hunter or perhaps a warrior.
• Bonus Feat: Bow Basics
• Animal Turning: Once per combat you may Turn animals.
• Bow Hunter: You inflict 2 additional damage on standard characters with a bow.
• Bow Proficiency: You gain the Bow proficiency.
• Camouflage: Choose a terrain: aquatic, arctic, caverns/ mountains, desert, forest/jungle, indoors/settled, plains, or swamp. You gain a +5 gear bonus with Blend checks while in that terrain.

Aristocrat
You're a child of nobility or wealthy parents, accustomed to living a life of privilege.
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Actor)
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Flashy: Your Panache rises by 2.
• Noble Blood: You may purchase Noble Renown for 40 Reputation per rank (see page 187).
• Origin Skill: Choose 1 additional Origin skill.

Artisan
Your mastery of the arts makes you a welcome guest in any land.
• Bonus Feat: Crafting Basics
• Celebrated: Your Legend increases by 2.
• Crafting Focus: You gain 1 Crafting skill focus.
• Natural Elegance: Your Appearance bonus increases by +1.
• Practiced Crafting: If you spend an action die to boost a Crafting check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them

Barbarian
You're a savage warrior, driven by sheer fury.
• Bonus Feat: Rage Basics
• Fast: Your Speed increases by 10 ft.
• Tenacious Spirit: You gain 1 additional vitality per level.
• Trap Sense: You may roll twice when making Reflex saves prompted by security devices and traps, keeping the result you prefer.

Bard
You hold the night at bay with practical wisdom and good cheer, commonly using stories and song.
• Bonus Feat: Well-Rounded
• Beguiling: When you successfully Taunt a standard character, you may decline the standard result to have your target become fixated on you for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma score. If you gain this benefit from multiple sources you may also damage the target once without interrupting his fixation (you may do this only once, no matter how many times you gain the benefit).
• Encouragement: Once per scene, you may speak to 1 of your teammates for 1 minute to grant them a +1 morale bonus with saving throws until the end of the current scene.
• Free Hint: Once per session, you may request a free hint from the GM. If he refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die.
• Practiced Impress: If you spend an action die to boost an Impress check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.

Cavalier
You've been trained to fight from the saddle.
• Bonus Feat: Favored Gear (mount)
• Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict 1 additional damage.
• Glory-Bound: You may purchase Heroic Renown for 40 Reputation per rank(s).
• Practiced Ride: If you spend an action die to boost a Ride check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Triumphant Swing: You gain the Triumphant Swing trick.

Cleric
A servant of faith, you're both herald of their will and shepherd of their followers.
Requirements: Alignment
• Bonus Feat: Any 1 Chance feat
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Field Medicine: You are always considered to have a doctor's bag.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain ranks in the Resolve skill, you gain equal ranks in the Medicine skill. This may not increase your Medicine skill beyond its maximum rank.
• Turning: Choose a Type from the following list: animal, beast, construct, elemental, fey, horror, ooze, outsider, plant, spirit, or undead. Once per combat you may Turn characters of this Type.

Corsair
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Officer)
• Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
• Flashy: Your Panache increases by 2.
• Terrifying Look: The Will save DCs of stress damage you inflict increase by 4.
• Water Vehicle Focus: You gain the Ride skill's Water Vehicles focus.

Criminal
What's mine is mine and what's yours is about to be mine.
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Pickpocket)
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Dexterity or
Intelligence scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Cheap Shot: You gain the Cheap Shot trick.
• Fast: Your Speed increases by 10 ft.
• Practiced Intimidate: If you spend an action die to boost an Intimidate check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.

Dragoon
You're trained as mounted light infantry, fighting from horseback and on foot with carbine and blade.
Requirements: Reason Era or later
• Bonus Feat: Quick Draw
• Black Powder Proficiency: You gain the Black Powder proficiency.
• Commissioned: You may purchase Military Renown for 40 Reputation per rank.
• Edged Proficiency: You gain the Edged proficiency.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Ride skill, you gain equal ranks in the Tactics skill. This may not increase your Tactics skill beyond its maximum rank.

Druid
You're a servant of nature, at home in the world of men and in the wild.
• Bonus Feat: Animal Partner
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Constitution or Wisdom scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Practiced Medicine: If you spend an action die to boost a Medicine check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Practiced Survival: If you spend an action die to boost a Survival check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Trackless Step: The DCs of Tracking checks to follow your trail increase by 10.

Fencer
You've made a name for yourself with footwork and swordplay.
• Bonus Feat: Fencing Basics
• Decisive: You gain a +5 bonus with Initiative.
• Edged Proficiency: You gain the Edged proficiency.
• Fast: Your Speed increases by 10 ft.
• Parry: You gain the Parry trick.

Fighter
You're no stranger to the battlefield; you've already survived some tough fights and have the scars to prove it!
• Bonus Feat: Armor Basics
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Strength or Constitution scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Extra Proficiency: You gain 4 additional proficiencies or tricks.
• Melee Combat Expert: You're considered to have 2 additional Melee Combat feats for any ability based on the number of Melee Combat feats you have.

Fist
Your rigorous discipline has toughened your mind and body, turning you into a living weapon of the highest caliber.
• Bonus Feat: Two-Hit Combo
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Strength or Wisdom scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Fast: Your Speed increases by 10 ft.
• Practiced Acrobatics: If you spend an action die to boost an Acrobatics check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Unarmed Proficiency: You gain the Unarmed proficiency

Gladiator
You were raised in the brutal world of death sports, carving out a reputation in blood and steel.
• Bonus Feat: Combat Instincts
• Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict 1 additional damage.
• Extra Proficiency: You gain 1 additional proficiency or trick.
• Harsh Beating: The Fortitude save DCs of subdual damage you inflict increase by 4.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Athletics skill, you gain equal ranks in the Impress skill. This may not increase your Impress skill beyond its maximum rank.

Guardian
You're a professional bodyguard, trained to be alert and to sacrifice yourself if necessary to save your charge.
• Bonus Feat: Elusive
• Practiced Notice: If you spend an action die to boost a Notice check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Step In: Once per combat, you may choose to receive all of 1 attack's damage on an adjacent character. Your Damage Reduction and Damage Resistance apply normally.
• Tenacious Spirit: You gain 1 additional vitality per level.

Lord
You're a paragon of your people, a genuine champion who leads from the front in times of strife.
• Bonus Feat: Followers
• Noble Blood: You may purchase Noble Renown for 40 Reputation per rank.
• Practiced Tactics: If you spend an action die to boost a Tactics check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Stand Together: You gain a +2 morale bonus to Defense and all saves when at least 2 adjacent characters share your Species.

Merchant
The wheels of commerce don't turn themselves.
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Trader)
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Intelligence or Charisma scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Linguist: You gain 2 additional Languages.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Haggle skill, you gain equal ranks in the Search skill. This may not increase your Search skill beyond its maximum rank.
• Thrifty: Your Prudence increases by 2.

Miner
You've bent your back digging riches from the earth's bosom -- experience that's surprisingly useful in your adventuring career!
• Bonus Feat: Pathfinder Basics (caverns/mountains)
• Blunt Proficiency: You gain the Blunt proficiency.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Athletics skill, you gain equal ranks in the Crafting skill. This may not increase your Crafting skill beyond its maximum rank.
• Stonecutting Focus: You gain the Crafting skill's Stonecutting focus.
• Unbreakable: Each time you suffer attribute impairment, it decreases by 1 (minimum 0).
• Warding Strike: You gain the Warding Strike trick

Musketeer
You're a member of an elite corps trained to use early blackpowder weapons.
Requirements: Reason Era or later
• Bonus Feat: Bullseye
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Dexterity or Wisdom scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Black Powder Proficiency: You gain the Black Powder proficiency.
• Called Shot: You gain the Called Shot trick.
• Commissioned: You may purchase Military Renown for 40 Reputation per rank.
• Heroism: You gain a +1 bonus with all attack and skill checks you make during Dramatic scenes.

Mystic
You're a folk healer using hidden lore and a hint of magic to assist your community.
• Bonus Feat: The Gift
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Constitution or Charisma scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Inquisitive Mind: You gain 2 additional Interests.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Investigate skill, you gain equal ranks in the Medicine skill. This may not increase your Medicine skill beyond its maximum rank.
• Sharp Mind: You gain 1 additional skill point per level.

Nomad
Your travels have led you far and wide and introduced you to many tribes.
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Horseman).
• Animal Empathy: The Dispositions of non-adversary animals increase by 5.
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Dexterity or Constitution scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Linguist: You gain 2 additional Languages.
• Practiced Haggle: If you spend an action die to boost a Haggle check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Trackless Step: The DCs of Tracking checks to follow your trail increase by 10.

Physician
With poultice and scalpel, medicine and bandages, you can hold death itself at bay... for a time.
Requirements: Ancient Era or later
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Healer)
• Chemistry Focus: You gain the Crafting skill's Chemistry focus.
• Contagion Sense: You may roll twice when making Fortitude saves prompted by disease and poison, keeping the result you prefer.
• Edged Proficiency: You gain the Edged proficiency.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Medicine skill, you gain equal ranks in the Crafting skill. This may not increase your Crafting skill beyond its maximum rank.

Ranger
You're an experienced woodsman specializing in the careful study and decimation of certain enemies.
• Bonus Feat: Battlefield Trickery
• Animal Empathy: The Dispositions of non-adversary animals increase by 5.
• Camouflage: Choose a terrain: aquatic, arctic, caverns/mountains, desert, forest/jungle, indoors/settled, plains, or swamp. You gain a +5 gear bonus with Blend checks while in that terrain.
• Favored Foes: Choose 2 Types: animal, beast, construct, elemental, fey, folk, horror, ooze, outsider, plant, spirit, or undead. Your threat range increases by 2 when attacking and making Notice, Sense Motive, and Survival checks targeting standard characters of the chosen Types. You may choose an additional Type at Career Levels 6, 11, and 16.

Rogue
Your methods are sometimes shifty but also quite effective.
• Bonus Feat: Ambush Basics
• Practiced Sneak: If you spend an action die to boost a Sneak check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Sharp Mind: You gain 1 additional skill point per level.
• Trap Sense: You may roll twice when making Reflex saves prompted by security devices and traps, keeping the result you prefer.

Shaman
You're a holy man, communing with the ancients to pass down their wisdom.
• Bonus Feat: Blessed
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Wisdom or Charisma scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Contagion Sense: You may roll twice when making Fortitude saves prompted by disease and poison, keeping the result you prefer.
• Origin Skill: Choose 1 additional Origin skill.
• Practiced Sense Motive: If you spend an action die to boost a Sense Motive check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.

Shield Bearer
As a hoplite, legionnaire, or huscarl, you're trained in the particulars of shoulder-to-shoulder warfare with a shield.
• Bonus Feat: Shield Basics
• Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
• Blunt Proficiency: You gain the Blunt proficiency.
• Melee Combat Expert: You're considered to have 2 additional Melee Combat feats for any ability based on the number of Melee Combat feats you have.
• Practiced Resolve: If you spend an action die to boost a Resolve check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Shield Block: You gain the Shield Block trick.

Sorcerer
Your cold, calculating demeanor suggests something not quite natural in your ancestry.
• Bonus Feat: Any 1 Species feat
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Spellcasting skill, you gain equal ranks in the Intimidate skill. This may not increase your Intimidate skill beyond its
maximum rank.
• Terrifying Look: The Will save DCs of stress damage you inflict increase by 4.

Swindler
You've learned a lot by keeping your eyes open and your mouth shut.
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Spy)
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Dexterity or Charisma scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Beguiling: When you successfully Taunt a standard character, you may decline the standard result to have your target become fixated on you for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma score. If you gain this benefit from multiple sources you may also damage the target once without interrupting his fixation (you may do this only once, no matter how many times you gain the benefit).
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Practiced Bluff: If you spend an action die to boost a Bluff check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.

Tribesman
You hail from a simple society that lives off the land.
• Bonus Feat: Basic Skill Mastery (Athlete)
• Extra Proficiency: You gain 1 additional proficiency or trick.
• Game Hunter: You inflict 2 additional damage on standard animals and beasts.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Resolve skill, you gain equal ranks in the Survival skill. This may not increase your Survival skill beyond its maximum rank.
• Thick Hide 2: You're considered to be wearing partial armor that provides Damage Reduction 2. This DR does not stack with other armor (only the best protection applies). If you gain thick hide from multiple sources, your hide offers the highest single DR value + 1 per additional hide benefit (e.g. thick hide 4, thick hide 3, and thick hide 1 offer DR 6).

Vanguard
You're an elite guardian of your people, determined to protect them from all threats.
• Bonus Feat: Misdirection Basics
• Basic Combat Expert: You're considered to have 1 additional Basic Combat feat for any ability based on the number of Basic Combat feats you have.
• Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
• Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Resolve skill, you gain equal ranks in the Impress skill. This may not increase your Impress skill beyond its maximum rank.
• Stand Together: You gain a +2 morale bonus to Defense and all saves when at least 2 adjacent characters share your Species.

Warden
You patrol the fringes of civilization to ensure nothing comes upon your community unexpectedly.
• Bonus Feat: Pathfinder Basics (any 1)
• Attribute Training: The lower of your Intelligence or Wisdom scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
• Decisive: You gain a +5 bonus with Initiative.
• Practiced Investigate: If you spend an action die to boost an Investigate check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Unbreakable: Each time you suffer attribute impairment, it decreases by 1 (minimum 0).

Wizard
Your mastery of arcane lore ensures you're in high demand as counsel in delicate matters.
• Bonus Feat: Spell Library
• Broad Learning: You gain 2 additional Studies.
• Encouragement: Once per scene, you may speak to 1 of your teammates for 1 minute to grant them a +1 morale bonus with saving throws until the end of the current scene.
• Practiced Spellcasting: If you spend an action die to boost a Spellcasting check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
• Thrifty: Your Prudence increases by 2.

Okay... lots to digest here. You're going to see more references to things like Interests, Action Dice, Studies, Tricks etc. We'll go over those things later (in Skills and when we cover the core system). Suffice to say just a casual look at these Specialities already adds another dimension to your PC class choice. You'll see all the things "missing" from the Core Class list are largely folded in here to represent the flavor those D20 classes give - but *aren't* specific professions unto themselves per se, like Sorcerer. Yet - what those things bring to the table are now applicable to ANY class in terms of what they really bring to the table (Sorcerer is a means to be "blooded" from another Species for instance). Nothing prevents you from being a soldier with Dragon blood in you... and access to those Species Feats.

What Fantasy Craft is trying to set up is a tighter and meatier taxonomy of design. Each sub-system roots itself deeper into the next element and deeper into the core rules (which at this point we haven't even gotten to yet).

NEXT post - we'll look at *head-to-head* comparisons.

There's also a Monk Expert Class in the 'Call to Arms' series of PDFs that Crafty Games produced, for those who want to go full-on D&D or chi-using monk from the Martial Artist baseline.

Yep. But I'm trying to keep it core. Otherwise I'll be comparing the metric ton of 3.x third party stuff... and down the already daunting rabbit-hole we go.

Quote from: tenbones;1139528Yep. But I'm trying to keep it core. Otherwise I'll be comparing the metric ton of 3.x third party stuff... and down the already daunting rabbit-hole we go.

   That way lies madness! :) But yes, that was just meant as a "FYI" footnote, not a request or encouragement to go beyond the core book.

If I'm reading Specialty correctly, those are flat things, correct?  You get the listed bonuses and they aren't adjusted by level?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm playing around with an idea that is close but not exactly to "throw BEMCI and 5E into a blender then rearrange the parts", which in some ways is similar to what FC does to 3E (only more basic, given the origin material).

FC is amazing, but there's just too much. We need an FC Lite.

Not sure if you've mentioned this yet, but in the Crafty forums there was a great thread on the 3.5 Cleric vs. the FC Priest. The player was complaining that he actually wanted to be a healbot, but the rules didn't really allow it. The designers tried to explain that one of the design goals was to eliminate the concept of "Cleric as healbot" freeing up the FC Priest for cooler options. Unfortunately the player wasn't getting it. My take-away was that the player had found a comfortable niche as the group's healer, a role which he served in for every game, and was nervous when faced with challenge of stepping outside of his comfort zone.

On a related note, I'm curious if (or how) FC solves the 3.5 CODzilla problem (Cleric or Druid + Godzilla) where the C/D is a better fighter than the fighter at higher levels. Or some of the other 3.5 conundrums, like LFQW or Christmas Tree mentality.

Tenbones, I'm surprised you didn't mention Trailblazer in your analysis, which to my mind would be the true cage match of the 3.75 editions (PF, FC, and Trailblazer.)

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64009/Trailblazer

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1139535If I'm reading Specialty correctly, those are flat things, correct?  You get the listed bonuses and they aren't adjusted by level?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm playing around with an idea that is close but not exactly to "throw BEMCI and 5E into a blender then rearrange the parts", which in some ways is similar to what FC does to 3E (only more basic, given the origin material).

Correct. They're flat. Basically they're like 5e Backgrounds with a lot more mechanical heft. (more correctly - 5e backgrounds are very watered down versions of Specialties). I don't know if 5e was inspired by FC (doubt it) but if they were, they dropped the ball.

It would seem to me that a Cleric Speciality and Mage Class combination would do the 'healbot' quite nicely, since as I'm reading things, there's nothing in the FC rules forbidding a Mage access to the Healing subschool of Enchantment.

Quote from: Aglondir;1139536FC is amazing, but there's just too much. We need an FC Lite.

Not sure if you've mentioned this yet, but in the Crafty forums there was a great thread on the 3.5 Cleric vs. the FC Priest. The player was complaining that he actually wanted to be a healbot, but the rules didn't really allow it. The designers tried to explain that one of the design goals was to eliminate the concept of "Cleric as healbot" freeing up the FC Priest for cooler options. Unfortunately the player wasn't getting it. My take-away was that the player had found a comfortable niche as the group's healer, a role which he served in for every game, and was nervous when faced with challenge of stepping outside of his comfort zone.

On a related note, I'm curious if (or how) FC solves the 3.5 CODzilla problem (Cleric or Druid + Godzilla) where the C/D is a better fighter than the fighter at higher levels. Or some of the other 3.5 conundrums, like LFQW or Christmas Tree mentality.

Tenbones, I'm surprised you didn't mention Trailblazer in your analysis, which to my mind would be the true cage match of the 3.75 editions (PF, FC, and Trailblazer.)

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64009/Trailblazer

Yeah the CODZilla doesn't really exist in FC. Mainly because Divine casting works *nothing* like 3e/PF. We'll explore all of those ramifications once we let everyone's head's wrap around the classes. Soldiers and dedicated melee-types/non-caster ranged PC's are *deadly* in combat.

I think people will raise some eyebrows at how Divine casters work. As someone that dropped the Cleric class in 2e and went strictly with Specialty Priests - Fantasy Craft raises that bar to a different level.

CODzilla isn't *really* a thing because technically if you want to be a healbot - Mages can heal if your GM wants to let Mages have access to Cure Wounds spell line. Or it might be only the province of Divine casters that worship the correct Gods with the right Alignment.

But regardless, if you wanna be a Healbot, the way combat works in the game makes being a Healbot not quite the same thing as in D&D. Yes you can absolutely do it... but the game is a little more active in play than thinking you're just gonna lean back and toss heals to your fellow PC's. Depends on the GM runs things. Those kinds of things don't even exist in my old D&D campaigns because I never allow "regular" clerics, so it was never an issue.

The Linear Fighter/Quadratic Mage issue? Largely solved. Fighters capacity to end fights matches that of Mages - likewise Mages are more mechanically flexible than their D&D/PF counterparts, but their utility of spell selection isn't as varied.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1139544It would seem to me that a Cleric Speciality and Mage Class combination would do the 'healbot' quite nicely, since as I'm reading things, there's nothing in the FC rules forbidding a Mage access to the Healing subschool of Enchantment.

By the rules- this is absolutely correct. But I make no assumptions about how a GM wants to apply the toolkit to any particular setting of their own creation.

Mages *are* the defacto "magical healers" of FC. There is less constraint on them than there is on Priests whose Alignment is going to dictate what they have access to. Clerics are closer to being a practical natural healer, there is nothing really magic about them, but clearly they're part of a Faith.

Priests of Faiths/Alignments that advocate Miracles the grant Path of Life are pretty much the only "divine healers" (but they're good at it).

Quote from: tenbones;1139472Yeah! The Social-Based classes and Stress-mechanics are *severely* under-rated. I had a player who ran with a Courtier and envisioned himself like "Littlefinger" from the GoT books. Holy hell, as long as combat hasn't started, this guy was doing things all over the place. Right from the start he was having people set up to be murdered off-stage and immediately moving up the power-structure.

ETA: Dude, you're my signature! You've been my signature as long as I can remember! I only just now saw that the name in my sig and yours was the same. Whoa! Trippy.

Yeah, social attacks can be downright deadly, too. Like you can literally freak people out so much they pass out, and then can just end them while they're down. We were up against a lot of human opponents one - a "The Most Dangerous Game" situation where we were the prey - and we ended up burying a fuckton of evil noblemen in the quicksand pits they had intended to use to hide us. Like seriously, we scrubbed the entire island clean while they were pissing themselves and set their other prisoners free, and then hid all of the evidence in the quicksand. We took the long route home(the only ones who knew we were on the island were the noblemen who took us there, and they were now dead) and swore each other to secrecy. Ended a slaving/hunting ring but never got any credit for it. Felt it was safer that way. The physical dudes did a huge ton of taking down, too. We were all contributing very well, just so we're clear. (Also, forgot to mention before that the GM and all of the players were new to Fantasy Craft. That's all the above conversation over Stress amounted to, really. Just us being new to the system and being surprised by something neither of us anticipated.)

Quote from: tenbones;1139528Yep. But I'm trying to keep it core. Otherwise I'll be comparing the metric ton of 3.x third party stuff... and down the already daunting rabbit-hole we go.

I dunno. Even with Call to Arms, there's really very little FC material relative to D&D material. I figure if you included it(not saying you should, just if), maybe a choice product or 2 extra for D&D would suffice.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1139535If I'm reading Specialty correctly, those are flat things, correct?  You get the listed bonuses and they aren't adjusted by level?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm playing around with an idea that is close but not exactly to "throw BEMCI and 5E into a blender then rearrange the parts", which in some ways is similar to what FC does to 3E (only more basic, given the origin material).

He already answered, but you'll notice that some Specialties, like Ranger, have abilities that scale at least a little, like Favored Foes. It scales in a way that's a lot less powerful than a lot of the all-up-front bonuses, so I don't have a problem with this occasional departure from the norm.

Quote from: Aglondir;1139536FC is amazing, but there's just too much. We need an FC Lite.

I'd definite check this out, but I think it's inaccurate to think of FC as particularly rules-heavy. When I think about it compared to D&D and PF, it's not more heavy, just differently heavy. I do think there's a little more work on the GM side, though. Creating NPCs and monsters is a pretty involved process with lots of options and abilities. And choosing your Campaign Qualities . . . well, that part's fun, true, but there's yet another list of things to consider for your setting.

QuoteNot sure if you've mentioned this yet, but in the Crafty forums there was a great thread on the 3.5 Cleric vs. the FC Priest.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1139544It would seem to me that a Cleric Speciality and Mage Class combination would do the 'healbot' quite nicely, since as I'm reading things, there's nothing in the FC rules forbidding a Mage access to the Healing subschool of Enchantment.

Haha, I was using the multi-quote and was going to say exactly this! But since you already did, I'll expand a little. By default, Fantasy Craft gives you classes that you can go many directions with, with pretty much all of the options set to ON. It's up to the GM to determine which options do and don't fit their setting and limit accordingly. Also, the unfinished Spellbound was supposed to expand on the magic system and contain a lot of new magic-using classes. Including a line dedicated to healers, IIRC. It's a shame that it was never released. It's the reason that I refuse to get the Mistborn RPG. I will not support the enemy no matter how much I love the Mistborn series.

Quote from: tenbones;1139550The Linear Fighter/Quadratic Mage issue? Largely solved. Fighters capacity to end fights matches that of Mages - likewise Mages are more mechanically flexible than their D&D/PF counterparts, but their utility of spell selection isn't as varied.

Oh, yes! The way they have a limited pool of spell points that replenishes fairly quickly once at rest. The way even the physically wimpy classes have some combat proficiencies, and how the classes are really great at their particular schtick, but still pretty okay at most other things. Someone with low CHA can still impress people some of the times. Casters without spell points can attack, you know, not great like a Soldier or anything, but pretty okay. They're not totally hosed just because they ran out of juice. At a disadvantage, sure, but not hosed. So yeah, great at one thing and good enough at a couple more.

Class Comparison!

Okay now it's time to enter the Thunderdome. From here on out we're going to see some definite differences between systems. Fantasy Craft will be making further departures because the core assumptions of class design are much more different than D&D3e, and Pathfinder which cleaves relatively much closer to D&D.


D&D 3.x Class Progression
Each class in D&D 3.x has a 20-level progression on a uniform XP-accrual rate. This also includes uniform Feat acquisition of a free Feat at 1st then a new Feat every 3-levels thereafter. Ability score increases every 4 levels. Class Skill Max Ranks are capped by current level +3

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Pathfinder's Class Progression
Pathfinder also has a 20-level progression but changes a few things. First it gives three different XP-acquisition tracks to level up your characters at the discretion of the GM. This is a very novel idea in that it allows for emphasis on certain ranges of play. Immediately it should be noted that the XP values for Pathfinder even on its fastest track are higher than D&D3.x  But in every other feature, mirrors the same uniform progression outside of Skills which are endemic to each class. Skill acquisition is different based on class, where each class is granted "favored skill" and members of that class get +3 to any rolls made with that skill.

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Fantasy Craft Class Progression
Fantasy Craft also has a 20-lvl progression. It's similarities are uniform XP totals per level, Maximum Skill Rank capped at current level +3, Attribute score increases every 4th level, and Extra Feats every 3-lvls after 1st.

But there are a few more items that Fantasy Craft characters get -

Extra Proficiencies - Proficiencies are Advanced actions or tricks you can learn. These are like mini-Feats that more granularly make your character more distinctive mechanically. Anyone can swing a sword - but your character might have the Forced Opening Trick - which allows you to attack with such a flourish that it causes your target to cause him to be flat-footed. We'll cover these in the Combat section later.

Extra Interests - Interests come in three categories: Alignment, Languages and Studies. Alignment is different in Fantasy Craft than it is in D&D/Pathfinder. Alignment represents a belief in a God, Philosophy or moral outlook (traditional D&D alignment), or ethos specific to your setting. Alignment is only necessary for settings where direct interaction with these forces are necessary or if there is a social need that supports that belief system in the game. In other words - if your character is actively engaged in such activities - some classes and Feats, *require* you purchase an alignment. Otherwise you don't need it unless you want to simply be part of it. For classes that requires it - Priest and Paladins, Alignment dictates the needs of their supernatural patron, and each Alignment dictates the benefits and drawbacks. Think of Alignment to be like the ethos from Powers and Pantheons in D&D2e.

Languages - Yep. Languages.

Studies - Studies are specific areas of a skill you possess that might give you extra bonuses on any roll you might make when dealing with that specific Study. This might come in the form of extra information, bonus to your die-roll, even for social rolls with NPC's that might share an interest in similar topics.

Action Dice - Every character gets Action Dice at the start of each session.  As you level you get more Action Dice. Action Dice can be spent to Boost Die rolls (1 die) - damage results, skill check, Knowledge check, saving-throw, or to-hit roll. These dice can be rolled *after* your roll, and they explode if you roll max on the die. You can also Boost Defense by spending 1 Action Die, you can increase your Defense rating by 2 for a number of rounds equal to the die-result. These roll also explodes. You can only benefit from one Defense Action-die at any time and if you burn another, it replaces the previous result even if it's lower. Action Dice can also be used to Activate a Threat. In Fantasy Craft you confirm Critical strikes and Fumbles with your Action Dice. Lastly you can use an Action Die to heal outside of combat as long as the PC is conscious.

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Okay now that's out of the way - on to the classes. I'm going to start with the basic classes that each game shares then delve into the ones not shared. I want everyone to take special note on how each version of the game defines their class, then in comparison weigh the mechanical representation of those classes not just to one another - but according to how they internally define them.

D&D Fighter
Defined as: Of all the classes, the fighter has the best all-around fighting capabilities (hence the name). Fighters are familiar with all the standard weapons and armors. In addition to general fighting prowess, each fighter develops particular specialties of his own. A given fighter may be especially capable with certain weapons; another might be trained to execute specific fancy maneuvers. As fighters gain experience, they get more opportunities to develop their fighting skills. Thanks to their focus on combat maneuvers, they can master the most difficult ones relatively quickly. Fighters come to their profession in many ways. Most have had formal training in a noble's army or at least in the local militia. Some have trained in formal academies. Others are self-taught--unpolished but well tested. A fighter may have taken up the sword as a way to escape the limits of life on the farm, or he may be following a proud family tradition. Fighters share no special identity. They do not see themselves as a group or brotherhood. Those who hail from a particular academy, mercenary company, or lord's regiment, however, share a certain camaraderie.

Hit Die d10.
Class Skills: The fighter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level (2 + Int modifier) ×4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

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So they get Extra Attacks at 6th level (with only a +1 bonus), superior Fortitude saves and Bonus Feats as special class abilities.

Pathfinder Fighter
Defined as: Some take up arms for glory, wealth, or revenge. Others do battle to prove themselves, to protect others, or because they know nothing else. Still others learn the ways of weaponcraft to hone their bodies in battle and prove their mettle in the forge of war. Lords of the battlefield, fighters are a disparate lot, training with many weapons or just one, perfecting the uses of armor, learning the fighting techniques of exotic masters, and studying the art of combat, all to shape themselves into living weapons. Far more than mere thugs, these skilled warriors reveal the true deadliness of their eapons, turning hunks of metal into arms capable of taming kingdoms, slaughtering monsters, and rousing the hearts of armies. Soldiers, knights, hunters, and artists of war, fighters are unparalleled champions, and woe to those who dare stand against them. Fighters excel at combat--defeating their enemies, controlling the f low of battle, and surviving such sorties themselves. While their specific weapons and methods grant them a wide variety of tactics, few can match fighters for sheer battle prowess.

Hit Die d10.
Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient withall simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, light, and medium) and shields (including tower shields).
Weapon Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a fighter reaches 9th level, he receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups. A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.

Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):
Axes: battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, light pick, orc double axe, and throwing axe.
Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, elven curve blade, falchion, greatsword, longsword, scimitar, scythe, and two-bladed sword.
Blades, Light: dagger, kama, kukri, rapier, short sword, sickle, and starknife.
Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow.
Close: gauntlet, heavy shield, light shield, punching dagger, sap, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, and unarmed strike.
Crossbows: hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, and light repeating crossbow.
Double: dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword.
Flails: dire f lail, f lail, heavy f lail, morningstar, nunchaku, spiked chain, and whip.
Hammers: club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, and warhammer.
Monk: kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and unarmed strike.
Natural: unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing.
Polearms: glaive, guisarme, halberd, and ranseur.
Spears: javelin, lance, longspear, shortspear, spear, and trident.
Thrown: blowgun, bolas, club, dagger, dart, half ling sling staff, javelin, light hammer, net, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear, starknife, throwing axe, and trident.

Armor Mastery (Ex): At 19th level, a fighter gains DR 5/-- whenever he is wearing armor or using a shield.

Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon, such as the longsword, greataxe, or longbow. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

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So very similar in construction to the D&D3.x - but *definitely* beefed up with more granular mechanics to differentiate Pathfinder Fighters with different weapon expertise benefits. The core class still uses the same Bonus Feats and Multiple Attack matrix as its core delivery mechanism for executing it's primary purpose: the professional warrior and weapon's expert.

Fantasy Craft Soldier
Defined as: The Soldier inhabits a bloody twilight realm of endless warfare, slashing and crushing his way from one bitter struggle to the next. Even when at relative "peace" he's always preparing, always on the lookout for the next fight, and this vigilance is part of what makes him such a godsend to fellow adventurers. Nothing levels the field of battle like a well-honed Soldier, except perhaps two Soldiers.

Depending on your campaign, a Soldier could be...
• A veteran legionnaire bearing decades of war scars
• A plucky young squire seeking to prove himself through feats of arms and daring
• A martial arts master committed to enlightenment through the perfection of his fighting technique
• A tribal warrior defending his people from ancient foes
• A gladiatorial champion, calling for any and all taker

Party Role: Combatant. You're the ultimate general warrior. With strong fighting stats and abilities, you're the perfect complement to any party that regularly brawls. You're not initially the best at any particular aspect of battle (though you can easily reach that goal); rather, you're strong in all categories.

CLASS FEATURES
Favored Attributes: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution (though not always in that order)
Class Skills: Athletics, Crafting, Intimidate, Notice, Resolve, Search, Survival, Tactics
Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier per level
Vitality (HP): 12 + Con modifier per level
Starting Proficiencies: 6

CORE ABILITY
Accurate: Your finely honed physique is your deadliest weapon. Each time you spend 1 action die to boost an attack check, you roll and add the results of 2 dice (e.g. at Career Level 1, 1d4 becomes 2d4).

CLASS ABILITIES
Fight On: At Levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19, you gain 1 additional Basic, Melee, Ranged, or Unarmed Combat feat or 2 additional proficiencies.

Fortunes of War I: You stand fast in battle, especially when the pressure's on. At Level 2, you gain Damage Reduction 1. During dramatic scenes, this DR increases to 2.
Fortunes of War II: At Level 11, your Damage Reduction increases to 2 (4 during dramatic scenes).
Fortunes of War III: At Level 19, your Damage Reduction increases to 3 (6 during dramatic scenes).

Armor Use I: At Level 4, you gain a +1 bonus to Defense while wearing armor and receive a 20% discount when purchasing armor.
Armor Use II: At Level 8, this Defense bonus increases to +2 and this discount increases to 25%.
Armor Use III: At Level 12, this Defense bonus increases to +3 and this discount increases to 30%.
Armor Use IV: At Level 16, this Defense bonus increases to +4 and this discount increases to 35%.
Armor Use V: At Level 20, this Defense bonus increases to +5 and this discount increases to 40%.

Weapon Specialist: Your knowledge of weapons in which you're trained is expansive and precise. At Levels 6, 9, 12, 15,and 18, you may choose 1 of the following abilities. Each of these abilities may be chosen only once.
• Certainty: Your error range with proficient attacks decreases by 2 (minimum 0).
• Decisive Attack: Once per round when holding a weapon in which you're proficient, you may make 1 free attack against a standard character.
• Killer Instinct: You inflict 2 additional damage with proficient attacks.
• Master Weaponsmith: You're considered to have 5 additional ranks in Crafting when building, improving, or repairing weapons in which you're proficient. This may cause you to exceed your maximum skill rank for these activities.
• Most Deadly: It costs you 1 fewer action dice to activate critical hits with proficient attacks (minimum 0).
• One Step Ahead: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to Defense and DR 1 against attacks with weapons in which you're proficient.
• Rugged Weapons: When you're holding a weapon in which you're proficient and it must make a Damage save, you may roll twice, keeping the result you prefer.
• Shrewd Buyer: You receive a 20% discount when purchasing weapons in which you're proficient.

Portable Cover: You make the most of terrain, even improvising cover from objects kicked, knocked, or thrown into the path of incoming attacks. At Level 10, you and each ally within 10 ft. is considered to have 1/4 cover at all times, even when standing in the open. This benefit is lost while you're flat-footed. At Level 20, this ability grants 1/2 cover and affects allies within 15 ft.

One in a Million: You turn nearly any battlefield opportunity into savage amounts of pain. At Level 14, once per session, you may make 1 attack check, Fortitude save, or Strength- or Constitution-based skill check, automatically scoring a natural 20. This roll is a threat and may be activated as a critical success. You may not be forced to re-roll this natural 20.

Okay I'm going to have to post the stat-bloc in the next post (limited to 5 per post). But I want everyone to look at the sheer difference in expectation of what a Fighter is in Pathfinder and D&D - which by their own definitions seem... wishy-washy. And their mechanical representation of the class is weak at best when considered within the context of the system itself which we'll be digging into deeper later. All three classes focus on Feat acquisition - but the other abilities of the Solider (included the much higher HP total) and class flexibility completely outclasses the Pathfinder Fighter on its own merits. When we get into the Feats section, and you see how powerful the Feats are... then the true magnitude of the Soldier (and all the other Fantasy Craft classes) will be understood.

Another note - the Soldier gets it's capstone ability at 14th-lvl. You don't have to wait until 20 like in D&D or Pathfinder. And again, I'll let the definition of the Fantasy Craft Soldier settle in. It knows exactly what it's supposed to be and the flexibility of the system lets it be anything else you as a player want on top of that.

Lastly, you'll notice Fantasy Craft characters don't roll HP. You get a standard amount + Con modifier every level. The reasons behind this will be realized when we get to combat... it's nasty business.

Fantasy Craft Soldier

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Yeah... now *that* is a Fighter.

Ah, Action Dice finally got mentioned.

You've hit on one of the things I'm a little torn over. There's something I've experienced in other systems with "bennies", but is exacerbated in FC due to the way you can spend them on so many things; but how they're really, really needed to activate critical hits; and how critical hits become increasingly important as you level up due to the way NPC/monster HP increase at often ridiculous rates. On top of that, some class abilities rely on them, too. It's a particularly potent recipe for encouraging a hoarder mentality, which I'm not fond of. Soldier has an optional ability they can take as early as level 6 to mitigate this in combat, but what about everyone else? They get stuck chipping away at often ridiculous piles of HP(when you get to the NPC/monster creation section, I'll say more about this) unless they hoarded enough action dice to circumvent that(if they roll lucky enough, too, of course), and I can't believe that's intentional.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1140891Ah, Action Dice finally got mentioned.

You've hit on one of the things I'm a little torn over. There's something I've experienced in other systems with "bennies", but is exacerbated in FC due to the way you can spend them on so many things; but how they're really, really needed to activate critical hits; and how critical hits become increasingly important as you level up due to the way NPC/monster HP increase at often ridiculous rates. On top of that, some class abilities rely on them, too. It's a particularly potent recipe for encouraging a hoarder mentality, which I'm not fond of. Soldier has an optional ability they can take as early as level 6 to mitigate this in combat, but what about everyone else? They get stuck chipping away at often ridiculous piles of HP(when you get to the NPC/monster creation section, I'll say more about this) unless they hoarded enough action dice to circumvent that(if they roll lucky enough, too, of course), and I can't believe that's intentional.

Yeah, I really didn't like the Action Dice mechanic. I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of a game resource that can be spent to improve your chances of success, since I do think that IRL you can "push" yourself to succeed at something if you really want or need to (like when you really need to make a deadline and still have a ton of work to get done). But I didn't like the implementation of them in FC. The first issue I have is that they use a bonus die type that increases based on your level, which might seem like a sensible thing on the surface, except that higher level characters need them less than lower level characters do. So what's the point of gating the higher die types for higher levels when you already have higher ability modifiers at that point? But lower level characters who still have crap modifiers only get +1d4? Rrright...

Then there's the reliance on Action Dice to trigger critical hits, which TBH, is one of the worse, most tedious and punitive critical hit mechanics I've ever seen. Conforming criticals in 3e was already bad enough, but in FC you're expected to spend a limited game resource just to get an outcome you already need to roll a natural 20 (maybe less depending on weapon) to even get access to? Personally I'd just make criticals automatic (the way I handle them in 3e--no extra "confirmation" roll nonsense), and maybe keep the mechanic of improving criticals if you're willing to spend Action Points on it, which IMO is the only innovative part of FC's critical hit mechanic. The idea of spending extra effort to get more out of your criticals at least seems cool and makes sense.

Class abilities being triggered by spending Action Points is also interesting, but I'm not a fan of tracking fiddly, situational class abilities with limited uses per day or requiring special resources to use. But that's mostly cuz I'm lazy that way. So I have mixed feelings on it.

Quote from: tenbones;1140873Fantasy Craft Soldier

I've been going over Spycraft 1.0 for comparison. It's fun to see how the SC Soldier evolved into the FC Fighter.

Quote from: tenbones;1140873Portable Cover: You make the most of terrain, even improvising cover from objects kicked, knocked, or thrown into the path of incoming attacks. At Level 10, you and each ally within 10 ft. is considered to have 1/4 cover at all times, even when standing in the open. This benefit is lost while you're flat-footed. At Level 20, this ability grants 1/2 cover and affects allies within 15 ft.

I never liked "quantum cover." It raises too many issues: How and why did this thing suddenly appear on the battlefield? Or was there the entire time, but we didn't notice it until the narrative demanded? Does it make sense in every possible environment, even in an empty parking lot, an empty warehouse, or an open field? What does "portable" mean here? Does it move when I move?  

Quote from: tenbones;1140873Another note - the Soldier gets it's capstone ability at 14th-lvl. You don't have to wait until 20 like in D&D or Pathfinder.

Excellent design.

Quote from: tenbones;1140873Yeah... now *that* is a Fighter.

Indeed!

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1140891Ah, Action Dice finally got mentioned.

You've hit on one of the things I'm a little torn over. There's something I've experienced in other systems with "bennies", but is exacerbated in FC due to the way you can spend them on so many things; but how they're really, really needed to activate critical hits; and how critical hits become increasingly important as you level up due to the way NPC/monster HP increase at often ridiculous rates. On top of that, some class abilities rely on them, too. It's a particularly potent recipe for encouraging a hoarder mentality, which I'm not fond of. Soldier has an optional ability they can take as early as level 6 to mitigate this in combat, but what about everyone else? They get stuck chipping away at often ridiculous piles of HP(when you get to the NPC/monster creation section, I'll say more about this) unless they hoarded enough action dice to circumvent that(if they roll lucky enough, too, of course), and I can't believe that's intentional.

If there was one thing that rubbed me oddly - it's Action Dice.

Here's my experience (which oddly helped me when I got into Savage Worlds) - there should be an Action Dice economy generated by players actually playing. Much like Bennies in Savage Worlds, GM's should incentivize players to do things that the GM deems worthy of rewarding Action Dice. This disincentivizes hoarding because players will build their PC's to use the AD's towards their respective strengths organically. Soldiers for instance *should* be spending their AD's ending fights fast through crazy damage and crits.

Something I completely did not mention on purpose... which is another thumb in the eye of D&D3.x and Pathfinder, is the fact that in Fantasy Craft, everyone gets a move and two action. You can attack twice, move, move attack once, then high-five yourself, etc. There is no "attack matrix" where you have to track iterative attacks at -4 or some crazy shit like that. Other Feats can net you more attacks but they're usually as part of very specialized routines which falls right into the Soldier's wheelhouse.

Right from the jump, Soldiers outperform Fighters from D&D3.x/PF on every level. And it only gets magnified from there.

I've never experienced the HP-punching bag effect - mainly because Crits usually end fights dead - bypassing Vitality(HP) altogether by Soldiers being melee-death-machines, or going full-ranged and bowfire -bowfire-bowfire. Also since monsters are templated and scalable... their abilities are *scary*. GM's can fine-tune encounters on the fly if they feel they over-tuned/under-tuned things without missing a beat. This is something that is virtually impossible for GM's in Pathfinder/D&D that don't have complete system-mastery, and even then the way monsters work in Fantasy Craft, where scaling is a feature, it allows GM's to literally make monsters up on the spot made to order - or NPCs or whatever you need or dream up, and the math tables hold it all together pretty seamlessly.

As for what casters and non-Soldiers do in combat to "compete" - well we'll get into that, because the other classes are bringing mighty-amounts of heat to the table in their own right.

Quote from: Aglondir;1140894I've been going over Spycraft 1.0 for comparison. It's fun to see how the SC Soldier evolved into the FC Fighter.

Yeah! To me - especially when you read their respective descriptions and see how these classes played out in 3e... I think they all match their respective descriptions... but PF and D&D's descriptions were weak and their mechanics even weaker.

Fantasy Craft's description meanwhile leaves nothing to the imagination. Soldiers are built for war and combat and in that regard they are badass. When we get to the combat section and Feats - I think it will raise a lot of eyebrows for those here unfamiliar with Fantasy Craft in just *how* devastating the non-casters in this game can be (and in more ways than just combat).

Quote from: Aglondir;1140894I never liked "quantum cover." It raises too many issues: How and why did this thing suddenly appear on the battlefield? Or was there the entire time, but we didn't notice it until the narrative demanded? Does it make sense in every possible environment, even in an empty parking lot, an empty warehouse, or an open field? What does "portable" mean here? Does it move when I move?

Yeah it's... a little much. But I just say it's the Soldier giving corrective directions/leading by example in meaningful tactical ways that helps people - not so literally as he's there literally blocking and deflecting everyone in all places around his quantum field. LOL

It's a big abstraction. So in effect - yes, it's portable cover because the effect is mechanically the same.

I decided I'm going to focus on the few non-caster classes first. Because once I get to the casters - it's going to be a natural lead-in to the Magic system which is *very* different. Plus we haven't touched on Skills and Feats...

So I'll do caster's last (which won't be long since there's only a couple of overlap classes).

D&D Rogue
Defined as: Rogues have little in common with one another. Some are stealthy thieves. Others are silver-tongued tricksters. Still others are scouts, infiltrators, spies, diplomats, or thugs. What they do share is versatility, adaptability, and resourcefulness. In general, rogues are skilled at getting what others don't want them to get: entrance into a locked treasure vault, safe passage past a deadly trap, secret battle plans, a guard's trust, or some random person's pocket money. Rogues are highly skilled, and they can concentrate on developing any of several categories of skills. While not equal to members of many other classes in combat, a rogue knows how to hit where it hurts, and she can dish out a lot of damage with a sneak attack. Rogues have a sixth sense when it comes to avoiding danger. Experienced rogues develop mystical powers and skills as they master the arts of stealth, evasion, and sneak attacks.

Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills
The rogue's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are
Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft(Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (8+ Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short-bow, and short sword. Rogues are proficient with light armor, but not with
shields.

Sneak Attack (Ex): If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically, the rogue's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. A rogue can't strike with deadly accuracy from beyond that range. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be
able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Trapfinding (Ex): Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. A rogue who beats a trap's DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon's fiery breath or a fireball), she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Trap Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, a rogue gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the rogue reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a rogue with at least two levels of barbarian, for example), she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked; she can react to opponents on opposite sides of her as easily as she can react to a single attacker. This
 defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does. If a character already has uncanny
 Dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum Rogue level required to flank the character.

Special Abilities: On attaining 10th level, and at every three levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th), a rogue gains a special ability of her choice from among the following options.

Crippling Strike (Ex): A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.

Defensive Roll (Ex): The rogue can roll with a potentially lethal  blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the rogue can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the rogue must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll--if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the rogue's evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the rogue still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon's breath weapon or
a fireball, henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless rogue (such as one who is bound, unconscious, or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Opportunist (Ex): Once per round, the rogue can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the rogue's attack of opportunity for that round. Even a rogue with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use the opportunist ability more than once per round.

Skill Mastery: The rogue becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.

Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the rogue's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a rogue with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.

Feat: A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.

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Comments - On paper it looks cool. But in reality the definitions of the Rogue do not match the gameplay. While the emphasis on avoiding traps, and finding taps, and evading damage is clearly part of the narrative, they don't mesh well with the definition of the Rogue as basically being more of an adventuring spelunker with the penchant for Sneak-Attacks. Yes you CAN force the issue to where Rogues are in their element if they wanted to be "fast-talkers" - but we all know that the basic assumptions of any Rogue are to Sneak Attack and try to be stealthy with all the concerns and specifications that curtail those activities even within their special abilities. Let's be real - your goal is to be the guy Sneak Attacking as much as possible leveraging the Battlemat rules for Flanking. You can do more, it's true, but since half your abilities revolve around finding, detecting and removing traps... that hardly speaks towards the "spectrum" of other rogue-concepts that have nothing to do with these things. Yet... here you are with a sudden knowledge of Trapsmithing in a game where Traps and their construction is mostly useless. You're there to get your BIG Sneak Attack and make it count as much as possible.

Pathfinder Rogue
Defined as: Life is an endless adventure for those who live by their wits. Ever just one step ahead of danger, rogues bank on their cunning, skill, and charm to bend fate to their favor. Never knowing what to expect, they prepare for everything, becoming masters of a wide variety of skills, training themselves to be adept manipulators, agile acrobats, shadowy stalkers, or masters of any of dozens of other professions or talents. Thieves and gamblers, fast talkers and diplomats, bandits and bounty hunters, and explorers and investigators all might be considered rogues, as well as countless other professions that rely upon wits, prowess, or luck. Although many rogues favor cities and the innumerable opportunities of civilization, some embrace lives on the road, journeying far, meeting exotic people, and facing fantastic danger in pursuit of equally fantastic riches. In the end, any who desire to shape their fates and live life on their own terms might come to be called rogues.  Rogues excel at moving about unseen and catching foes unaware, and tend to avoid head-to-head combat. Their varied skills and abilities allow them to be highly versatile, with great variations in expertise existing between different rogues. Most, however, excel in overcoming hindrances of all types, from unlocking doors and disarming traps to outwitting magical hazards and conning dull-witted opponents.

Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
The rogue's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue f lanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Trapfinding: A rogue adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Rogue Talents: As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains one rogue talent. She gains an additional rogue talent for every 2 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.

Bleeding Attack* (Ex): A rogue with this ability can cause living opponents to bleed by hitting them with a sneak attack. This attack causes the target to take 1 additional point of damage each round for each die of the rogue's sneak attack (e.g., 4d6 equals 4 points of bleed). Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped
by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.

Combat Trick: A rogue that selects this talent gains a bonus combat feat.

Fast Stealth (Ex): This ability allows a rogue to move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty.

Finesse Rogue: A rogue that selects this talent gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.

Ledge Walker (Ex): This ability allows a rogue to move along narrow surfaces at full speed using the Acrobatics skill without penalty. In addition, a rogue with this talent is not flat-footed
when using Acrobatics to move along narrow surfaces.

Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.

Minor Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 0-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. This spell can be cast three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 10 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 10 to select this talent.

Quick Disable (Ex): It takes a rogue with this ability half the normal amount of time to disable a trap using the Disable Device skill (minimum 1 round).

Resiliency (Ex): Once per day, a rogue with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the rogue's level. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can only be performed when she is brought to below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent her from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If the rogue's hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, she falls unconscious and is dying as normal.

Rogue Crawl (Ex): While prone, a rogue with this ability can move at half speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. A rogue with this talent can take a 5-foot step while crawling.

Slow Reactions* (Ex): Opponents damaged by the rogue's sneak attack can't make attacks of opportunity for 1 round.

Stand Up (Ex): A rogue with this ability can stand up from a prone position as a free action. This still provokes attacks of opportunity for standing up while threatened by a foe.

Surprise Attack (Ex): During the surprise round, opponents are always considered f lat-footed to a rogue with this ability, even if they have already acted.
 
Trap Spotter (Ex): Whenever a rogue with this talent comes within 10 feet of a trap, she receives an immediate Perception skill check to notice the trap. This check should be made in secret by the GM.

Weapon Training: A rogue that selects this talent gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat.

Trap Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, a rogue gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Ref lex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the rogue reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action  against her. If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked. This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does. If a character already has uncanny dodge from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Advanced Talents: At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a rogue can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a rogue talent.

Crippling Strike* (Ex): A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage.

Defensive Roll (Ex): With this advanced talent, the rogue can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the rogue can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the rogue must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll--if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the rogue's evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Dispelling Attack* (Su): Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a rogue with this ability are affected by a targeted dispel magic, targeting the lowest-level spell effect
active on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. A rogue must have the major magic rogue talent before choosing dispelling attack.

Improved Evasion (Ex): This works like evasion, except that while the rogue still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Opportunist (Ex): Once per round, the rogue can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as an attack of opportunity for that round. Even a rogue with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use the opportunist ability more than once per round.

Skill Mastery: The rogue becomes so confident in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special
ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for skill mastery to apply to each time.

Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the rogue's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a rogue with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.

Feat: A rogue may gain any feat that she qualifies for in place of a rogue talent.

Master Strike (Ex): Upon reaching 20th level, a rogue becomes incredibly deadly when dealing sneak attack damage. Each time the rogue deals sneak attack damage, she can choose one of the following three effects: the target can be put to sleep for 1d4 hours, paralyzed for 2d6 rounds, or slain. Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Fortitude save to negate the additional effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Once a creature has been the target of a master strike, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that rogue's master strike for 24 hours. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage are also immune to this ability.

Comments: Much beefier and closer in mechanical expression to the description. However while the Pathfinder Rogue is hands down superior to the D&D3.x cousin, it's still designed to work within the 20-level spread without context to anything else in the game - or what those levels originally were meant to mean (The original 10-lvl assumption of 1e/2e - with everything else being just iterative bonuses). Because of this - what appears to be very nice abilities that would make the PFRogue really fun to play, are gated off behind 10th level, while still chained to the normal progression of all classes, forcing a famine-building scenario that ultimately makes most players go for hyper-optimization over flavor.

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Fantasy Craft Burglar
Defined as: In a world of killing things and taking their stuff, thievery is a time-honored profession. The Burglar cuts out the middle man, using guile, stealth, and good old fashioned dirty tricks to pull off daring raids and heists -- often without drawing his weapon. He brings a powerful blend of abilities to an adventuring party, helping them overcome dangerous traps and barriers, circumvent guards, and cut through the defenses of particularly dangerous enemies. Depending on your campaign, a Burglar could be...
 A danger junkie stealing the most highly guarded prizes for the thrill alone
 A pit fighting champion relying on speed and wits to stay on top
 A ninja penetrating fortresses and manor houses to steel secrets and lives
 A criminal mastermind leading a band of cutthroats to glory and riches
 A traveling merchant fending off bandits and other peril on the road

Party Role: Specialist/Combatant. You are the pre-eminent master of stealth, casually slipping past all but the most impressive security and outwitting all but the savviest guards. You specialize in snatch and grab more than fisticuffs but you're not afraid of a scrap  when the need arises.

CLASS FEATURES
Favored Attributes: Dexterity, Wisdom
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Crafting, Haggle, Investigate, Notice, Prestidigitation, Ride, Search, Sneak, Tactics
Skill Points: 8 + Int modifier per level
Vitality: 6 + Con modifier per level
Starting Proficiencies: 3

CORE ABILITY
Dexterous: You excel at tasks requiring nimble fingers and precise eye-hand coordination. Each time you spend 1 action die to boost a Dexterity-based skill check, you roll and add the results of 2 dice (e.g. at Career Level 1, 1d4 becomes 2d4).

Class Abilities
Very, Very Sneaky: At Level 1, each time you fail an Acrobatics or Sneak check and don't suffer an error, you still succeed as long as the check DC (or your opponent's check result) is equal to or less than your Class Level + 20. If several grades of success are possible, you achieve only the lowest possible positive result.If you gain this ability for either skill from two or more classes, add together your levels in all classes granting the ability when determining its effect.

Evasion I: At Level 2, whenever you aren't flat-footed and make a successful Reflex save to reduce damage, you suffer no damage at all.

Evasion II: At Level 11, whenever you aren't flat-footed and fail a Reflex save to reduce damage, you suffer only 1/2 damage (rounded down).

Evasion III: At Level 19, you may forego rolling when making a Reflex save, instead setting your result to your Reflex save bonus + 10.

Bonus Feat: You're focused and cunning, engaging in larceny and assault with equal ease. At Levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19, you gain 1 additional Melee Combat or Covert feat.

Uncanny Dodge I: Your senses are supremely sharp, letting you react quickly to danger. At Level 4, you retain your Dexterity bonus to Defense (if any) even when flat-footed.

Uncanny Dodge II: At Level 8, you never become flanked.

Uncanny Dodge III: At Level 12, you gain a +4 bonus with Reflex saves made to avoid traps, as well as a +4 bonus to Defense against attacks made by traps.

Uncanny Dodge IV: At Level 16, the first time in each scene when an attack reduces you to 0 or fewer wounds, the attack instead misses you.

Uncanny Dodge V: At Level 20, you never become flat-footed and may not be targeted with Coup de Grace actions unless you're held, paralyzed, or unconscious.

Bag of Tricks: You know a hundred ways to use the shadows to your advantage. At Levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18, you may choose 1 of the following abilities. Each of these abilities may be chosen only once.

• Bloody Mess: You inflict particularly heinous wounds. At the start of each round when an opponent is bleeding from one of your attacks, he suffers additional damage equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).

• Expertise: Choose one: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Crafting, Haggle, Investigate, Notice, Prestidigitation, Ride, Search, Sneak, or Tactics. Taking 10 with this skill doesn't take twice as long and taking 20 takes only 10 times as long.

*He Did It!: When you successfully Taunt an opponent you may force him to attack any character adjacent to you (other than himself). You may use this ability a number of times per scene equal to your starting action dice.

*Look Out!: Each ally and teammate within 10 ft. who can see and hear you gains the benefits of uncanny dodge I. This does not stack with uncanny dodge abilities they already have.

* Slippery: You often trip opponents up with their own attacks. Once per round when an adjacent opponent's attack misses you by 5 or more, you may immediately attempt to Tire the opponent as a free action. You may substitute Acrobatics in place of Resolve for this action.

*Sneak Attack: You gain an additional die of sneak attack damage.

*Stick Close and Don't Make a Sound: When you make a Sneak check, a single adjacent ally or teammate may share your result. The character must remain within 10 ft. of you to retain this benefit.

*Stash it: As a free action, you may make a Stash check to hide 1 object weighing up to 1 lb. Inspection fails to find the object unless a threat or critical success is scored.

I'll Cut You!: At Level 10, each time you successfully Anticipate, Disarm, Distract, Feint, Taunt, or Tire an adjacent opponent, he must also make a Reflex save (DC 10 + the number of Covert feats you possess + your Dex modifier) or begin bleeding. At Level 20, if the opponent fails the save and is already bleeding, he is stunned for 1 round.

Prince of Thieves: You've carved out a tidy little empire for yourself. At Level 14, your maximum Prizes increase by 4 and you gain 400 Reputation that must immediately be spent  on contacts, holdings, or magic items.

Comments: Burglars are more clearly defined as *THIEVES*. They do have all the other potential possibilities mentioned in their description, just like D&D/Pathfinder Rogues, the primary difference is because the way Skills and Feats work, in conjunction with the class - it's more realized and desirable. You'll notice where the classes overlap - Evasion, and Uncanny Dodge, each step is incrementally beefier. You'll also notice as defined, Burglars have no native ability to Sneak Attack. They can pick it up as part of their Bag of Tricks skill, but they're not necessarily dedicated killers - they're *thieves* that rely on stealth. Hence their abilities focus on various failsafes to insure success. But if they want to pick up Sneak Attack - they can.

I should note here - Sneak Attack in this game is *way* nastier than in D&D/PF because if you score a Crit, damage bypasses Vitality(HP) and goes directly to Wounds (Con score). Any character with access to Sneak Attack (and there are several) can very easily kill most characters on a good roll (and burning an Action Die). So even though Sneak Attack is a secondary function at best for Burglars, the fact they can get it still makes them dangerous if they want to be. Also when you combine these extreme stealth possibilities with the Feats which we'll cover later, then the possibilities really get wild. Note their rapid progression with Bonus Feats. This alone can make a Burglar *extremely* dangerous in combat if the player wants to go that route.

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Quote from: VisionStorm;1140893The first issue I have is that they use a bonus die type that increases based on your level, which might seem like a sensible thing on the surface, except that higher level characters need them less than lower level characters do. So what's the point of gating the higher die types for higher levels when you already have higher ability modifiers at that point? But lower level characters who still have crap modifiers only get +1d4? Rrright...

A couple things. First, the number curve in Fantasy Craft isn't nearly as ridiculous as in 3.x or PF. In FC, you don't need an 18+ to be effective at your job. I'd personally suggest at least a 14 in your most important stat starting out, but even if you do 12s across the board you'll be okay. Also, enemies scale to your level(by default; there is a Campaign Quality that changes this, but that's in a much later section that I'm sure tenbones will get to eventually), so in most respects mathematically your need for Action Dice remains the same. However, some classes get additional abilities that require Action Dice to activate, and due to the way HP increases linearly the Vitality portion of HP can get ridiculous after level adjustments. Meaning you'll have to chip away at a huge block of Vitality, try switching to other damage types which you may or may not be proficient in, or activate critical hits to bypass the Vitality and strike directly at the much smaller Wounds portion directly. So in those ways, your need actually grows as your level increases. And some classes get abilities that let you reduce activation costs, or not lose the die if you still fail, but these are always very narrow in application, so they'll save you some dice, but with the exception of the Soldier ability probably not a lot. And to my knowledge, only the Soldier gets access to an ability that helps with critical hit activation. You're not guaranteed to have a particular party composition, plus the ability is optional and has to be chosen from a list, so there's no way to guarantee a party of any level will actually have this ability. Those groups need to save their dice for combat situations as much as possible, and I don't like when things encourage hoarding like that. Or seem to be pushing you to have a specific class in your group when you have 20+ core class options to pick from. "You can do all these nifty things, but . . . you're really going to want to avoid doing so as much as possible, because there's this one tiny thing that can totally fuck you up if you run out. Especially if nobody chose a Soldier specifically."

Also, Action Dice explode. A d4 will explode more often. Not enough to make it better than a d6 in the long run, but it's not nearly as big a gap as it looks on the surface. And again, enemies scale, so you might have higher ability scores and stuff, but so does your opponent.

QuoteThen there's the reliance on Action Dice to trigger critical hits, which TBH, is one of the worse, most tedious and punitive critical hit mechanics I've ever seen.

I don't think it's quite that bad, at least not usually, but it seems that in some ways they want to move away from a reliance on critical hits, making them rarer but more deadly. But then do the HP bloat thing that causes you to rely on them more as your party's level increases. It sends mixed messages. I'd like some way to make Action Dice truly optional, and I'd definitely start with fixing the HP bloat, but beyond that I've got no idea what I'd do.

QuoteClass abilities being triggered by spending Action Points is also interesting, but I'm not a fan of tracking fiddly, situational class abilities with limited uses per day or requiring special resources to use. But that's mostly cuz I'm lazy that way. So I have mixed feelings on it.

And back to my main issue. Giving you tons of cool things to do with your Action Dice, but then mechanically incentivizing hoarding them for 1 purpose only. My feelings are mixed, too.

Quote from: tenbones;1140873Another note - the Soldier gets it's capstone ability at 14th-lvl. You don't have to wait until 20 like in D&D or Pathfinder. And again, I'll let the definition of the Fantasy Craft Soldier settle in. It knows exactly what it's supposed to be and the flexibility of the system lets it be anything else you as a player want on top of that.

There are actually a few design decisions that are really neat, and this is one of them! The game is designed with level 14 as the capstone in mind. For all classes. And you'll notice that Expert classes contain 10 levels, and Master classes contain 5, and all of them have a capstone ability at the final level. You can transition into an Expert class as early as level 5, and/or a Master class as early as level 10, which will place your new class's capstone ability at . . . level 14! So whether you choose to stick with your base class or go prestige, you'll get something good at level 14. Fun note: internally, and on the Crafty forums, the level 14 abilities are referred to as game-breakers. This is of course hyperbole, but they are pretty powerful, and purposely so.

Another note is on the Core Abilities. You can only ever have 2 - one basic, and one expert. Master classes don't have core abilities. This, compared with each character's increased flexibility in general makes regular(non-prestige) multi-classing less attractive. You'll have to weigh 2 things especially. The first is that if you dip into 2 or more of the same type of class(basic or expert), you won't get the additional Core Abilities. Only the one from your first class of that type. The 2nd is that any such dips will delay access to your capstone/game-breaker ability. So on the purely mechanical side, there are definite trade-offs in FC to engaging in 3.x/PF-style multiclassing. Just something to be aware of.

Quote from: tenbones;1141072*snips Rogue/Burglar info*

See, I love this! The 3.x/PF Rogue says it's versatile and made to fill many roles, but the actual class abilities that all Rogues get access to really are geared toward a particular niche. And the FC Burglar fills this role quite well, and in a very similar manner(sneak attack damage and everything!). And while you can certainly be a Burglar who's also decent at diplomacy or scouting or whatnot(with the right skill, background, and feat selections), there are classes that are made to especially excel at those other functions. Courtier for diplomacy. Explorer for dungeon delving. Scout for, well, scouting(yes, Scout can easily be seen as an alternate to Rogue or Ranger depending on your background and feat choices; it's versatile like that). And they have abilities that are meant to help with those particular tasks instead of the generic "sneak attack" that all D&D/PF Rogues get.

It's also neat to think about the various ways to build the same/similar concept. You already touched on it when talking about Backgrounds, but it really is neat. Start as Burglar with background and feat choices to make you good at whatever secondary role you choose. Or start as another class with background/feats to make you more roguish. Or depart from the D&D model entirely and just embrace your new class in some other non-roguish way. I like that if you have a good concept of who your character is and what type of stuff you want them to excel at, there's a way to build it. Probably more than one. And whatever you choose, it'll be pretty good at its job. That's another thing. With every class ability being useful pretty much forever, every feat attractive, and the number inflation not nearly as severe as in 3.x/PF, it's really difficult to totally hose your character. I have a feeling even Abserd (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZCIh_3b5K8)(please somebody get the reference; if you don't, the name is a link) could fare pretty well in FC.

Quote from: tenbones;1141072I should note here - Sneak Attack in this game is *way* nastier than in D&D/PF because if you score a Crit, damage bypasses Vitality(HP) and goes directly to Wounds (Con score). Any character with access to Sneak Attack (and there are several) can very easily kill most characters on a good roll (and burning an Action Die). So even though Sneak Attack is a secondary function at best for Burglars, the fact they can get it still makes them dangerous if they want to be. Also when you combine these extreme stealth possibilities with the Feats which we'll cover later, then the possibilities really get wild. Note their rapid progression with Bonus Feats.

Sneak attack damage is my #1 problem with Spycraft. At level 19, the SC Fixer gets a +9d6 damage sneak attack, which is an average of 31.5 damage. That's fine against VP, but it's obscene when applied to WP. And that's before base weapon damage, bonuses from strength, and bonuses from any action dice spent. Even at level 11, the Fixer does +5d6 (17.5 average) on a sneak attack, which is enough to drop most characters instantly.

The 3.5 Unearthed Arcana realized this. In their version of VP/WP:

QuoteFor critical hits, consider reducing the additional damage from bonus damage dice (such as a flaming sword or a rogue's sneak attack) to only 1 point per die. (Such attacks deal normal damage on noncritical hits.) That's still pretty scary when fighting a high-level rogue, but not quite as terrifying as facing the possibility of an extra 5 or 10 dice of wound point damage with a successful sneak attack critical hit.

How does FC handle this? The only defense in SC 1.0 was (ironically) the Fixer's Uncanny Dodge ability at level 8, where an opponent must be 4 levels higher in order to flank him.

EDIT: I found the answer. Helps to read things a second time. Looking over your Burglar write-up, it looks like the Burglar can buy Sneak Attack at Levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18, for a max of +6d6 sneak attack damage at level 18. Not nearly as bad as the SC Fixer's +9d6, and since there's an opportunity cost here (by choosing sneak attack 6 times, he's missing out on some other really cool stuff) this looks balanced. Kudos to the Crafty Team for evolving their design over the years.

Heh! you caught it! Yeah you're never going to have Sneak Attack at the crazy levels of PF/3.x for that exact reason. Plus you'd be foregoing a lot of other potentially useful stuff that would really make your character shine in many other areas - but it's a choice. And that's what FC really really gives you as a player: lots of options.

As a GM this allows you to emphasize certain niche aspects of your setting without necessarily penalizing your PC's by them dipping into them because there are almost no bad choices.

Quote from: tenbones;1141072Comments: Burglars are more clearly defined as *THIEVES*.

The more I read the FC Burglar write-up, the more I like it.

Next up - the Ranger.

This is going to be interesting because the class itself has always been one of great discussion. What IS a Ranger? The Strider debate. The Magic/No-Magic Debate. The Ranger vs. Barbarian Debate. The Fighter w/Survival Skills debate. Archer? Dual-Wield? The list goes on and on.

This will be interesting because it's going to allow us to crack the door just a LITTLE on combat task resolution (dual wielding for instance) in Fantasy Craft vs. 3.x/PF.

Edit: and for anyone following this thread, I plan on making some basic characters once we go through the Class sections so we can literally see the same characters side-by-side within each system and talk about what they're capable of relative to one another and get this as apples-to-apples as possible.

D&D 3.5 Ranger
Defined as: The forests and hills are home to fierce and cunning creatures, such as blood-thirsty owlbears and malicious displacer beasts. But more cunning and powerful than these monsters is the ranger, a skilled hunter and stalker. He knows the woods as if they were his home (as indeed they are), and he knows his prey in deadly detail. A ranger often accepts the role of protector, aiding those who live in or travel through the woods. In addition, a ranger carries grudges against certain types of creatures and looks for opportunities to find and destroy them. A ranger can use a variety of weapons and is quite capable in combat. His skills allow him to survive in the wilderness, to find his prey, and to avoid detection. He also has special knowledge about certain types of creatures, which makes it easier for him to find and defeat such foes. Finally, an experienced ranger has such a tie to nature that he can actually draw upon natural power to cast divine spells, much as a druid does.

Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal(Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table 3–14: Ranger Favored Enemies. Due to his extensive study of his chosen type of foe and
training in the proper techniques for combating such creatures, the ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2. For example, a 5th-level ranger has two favored enemies; against one he gains a +4 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks and weapon damage rolls, and against the other he has a +2 bonus. At 10th level, he has three favored enemies, and he gains an additional +2 bonus, which he can allocate to the bonus against any one of his three favored enemies. Thus, his bonuses could be either +4, +4, +2 or +6, +2, +2. If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy (for instance, devils are both evil outsiders and lawful outsiders), the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. See the Monster Manual for more information on types of creatures.

Track: A ranger gains Track  as a bonus feat.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A ranger can use body language, vocalizations, and demeanor to improve the attitude of an animal (such as a bear or a monitor lizard). This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma modifier  to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use wild empathy, the ranger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet
of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (such as a basilisk or a girallon), but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. This choice affects the character's class features but does not restrict his
selection of feats or special abilities in any way. If the ranger selects archery, he is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. The benefits of the ranger's chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Endurance: A ranger gains Endurance (see page 93) as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a ranger gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the DM's campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the DM may add the following creatures to the ranger's list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for its kind. (For instance, an aquatic creature can't adventure with a ranger on land and shouldn't be selected by a nonaquatic character without extenuating circumstances). In most cases, the animal companion functions as a mount, sentry, scout, or hunting animal, rather than as a protector. This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, except that the ranger's effective druid level is one-half his ranger level. For example, the animal companion of a 4th-
level ranger would be the equivalent of a 2nd-level druid's animal companion. A ranger may select from the alternative lists of animal companions just as a druid can, though again his effective druid level is half his ranger level. Thus, he must be at least an 8th-level ranger to select from the druid's list of 4th-level animal companions, and if he chooses one of those animals, his effective druid level would be reduced by 3, to 1st level. Like a druid, a ranger cannot select an alternative animal if the choice would reduce his effective druid level below 1st.

Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells (the same type of spells available to the cleric, druid, and paladin), which are drawn from the ranger
spell list (page 191). A ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Wis 11 for 1st-level spells, Wis 12 for 2nd-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger's Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. When Table 3–13 indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level (for instance, 1st-level spells for a 4th-level ranger), he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The ranger does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does. A ranger prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though he cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A ranger may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation. Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.

Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a ranger's aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. As before, the benefits of the ranger's chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a ranger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.

Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon's fiery breath or a fireball), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 11th level, a ranger's aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as
having the Improved Precise Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. As before, the benefits of the ranger's chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn't grant cover or concealment.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Comments: If ever there was a class that highlights the design-flaws of 3.x I'd be hard pressed to find a better example than the Ranger. Conceptually it's *all over the place*. It's a cut-rate fighter , a cut-rate Druid, a cut-rate Barbarian all rolled into one thing trying to be all things. Instead of having a clean central core concept with options to allow the player to customize that concept contextually to the campaign setting they're in - D&D's Ranger packs all this incongruous stuff into the core class, trying to emulate Strider from LOTR, while trying to also appease the historical representations of the class from previous edition... WITHOUT trying to fundamentally understand what those mechanics were trying to actually emulate. This is precisely where we get into the Caster Ranger/No-Caster Ranger. And it's a bit of a mess when you see while many of these abilities are thematically fine (if you're just playing anything-goes D&D) as you dig deeper into the combat mechanics of 3.x you'll see how lackluster they are *because* of the assumptions of D&D Anything Goes fantasy that's cooked in. I mean... why assume that Ranger fight fucking displacer beasts as a norm? They're aberrations of nature... are they THAT plentiful in all assumed locations where Rangers would exist? Yet... that's part of the assumed description. It's a very bad take on a concept that arguably is better serviced through more focus.

The overblown notion of having a Pet is a good concept, for instance. The mechanics of having a pet - suck. The class suffers from a lot of the problems that 3.x generated by giving non-casters these incongruous "cool sounding abilities" that in play were superfluous mechanically - especially when the these abilities were just re-skinned poorly powered Feats. Again - it could have been salvageable, but as written, they're garbage. Because I'm sure all those 20th level Rangers out there sure are happy they have +4 damage to Orcs! woo... and the fact you are forced to have abilities you may not even want, but are factored into the assumptions of your class *as balance*. Horrible unfocused design.

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Pathfinder Ranger
Defined as: For those who relish the thrill of the hunt, there are only predators and prey. Be they scouts, trackers, or bounty hunters, rangers share much in common: unique mastery of specialized weapons, skill at stalking even the most elusive game, and the expertise to defeat a wide range of quarries. Knowledgeable, patient, and skilled hunters, these rangers hound man, beast, and monster alike, gaining insight into the way of the predator, skill in varied environments, and ever more lethal martial prowess. While some track man-eating creatures to protect the frontier, others pursue more cunning game--even fugitives among their own people. Rangers are deft skirmishers, either in melee or at range, capable of skillfully dancing in and out of battle. Their abilities allow them to deal significant harm to specific types of foes, but their skills are valuable against all manner of enemies.

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Class Features[
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger selects a creature type from the ranger favored enemies table. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. A ranger may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2. If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table below. (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary--those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.) If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

Track (Ex): A ranger adds half his level (minimum 1) to Survival skill checks made to follow tracks.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A ranger can improve the initial attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use wild empathy, the ranger and the animal must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Combat Style Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. If the ranger selects archery, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot. At 6th level, he adds Improved Precise Shot and Manyshot to the list. At 10th level, he adds Pinpoint targeting and Shot on the Run to the list. If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Double Slice, Improved Shield Bash,
Quick Draw, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, he adds Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense to the list. At 10th level, he adds Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend to the list.The benefits of the ranger's chosen style feats apply only when he wears light, medium, or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style feats when wearing heavy armor. Once a ranger selects a combat style, it cannot be changed.

Endurance: A ranger gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

Favored Terrain (Ex): At 3rd level, a ranger may select a type of terrain from the Favored Terrains table. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Perception, Stealth, and Survival skill checks when he is in this terrain. A ranger traveling through his favored terrain normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked (though he may leave a trail if he so chooses).
At 8th level and every five levels thereafter, the ranger may select an additional favored terrain In addition, at each such interval, the skill bonus and initiative bonus in any one favored terrain (including the one just selected, if so desired), increases by +2. If a specific terrain falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher

Hunter's Bond (Ex): At 4th level, a ranger forms a bond with his hunting companions. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed. The first is a bond to his companions. This bond allows him to spend a move action to grant half his favored enemy bonus against a single target of the appropriate type to all allies within 30 feet who can see or hear him. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to the ranger's Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). This bonus does not stack with any favored enemy bonuses possessed by his allies; they use whichever bonus is higher. The second option is to form a close bond with an animal companion. A ranger who selects an animal companion can choose from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper or constrictor), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the ranger may choose a shark instead. This animal is a loyal companion that
accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for its kind. A ranger's animal companion shares his favored enemy and favored terrain bonuses.This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the Nature Bond class feature), except that the ranger's effective druid level is equal to his ranger level – 3.

Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list presented in Chapter 10. A ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger's Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table 3–12. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table 1–3). When Table 3–12 indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. A ranger must spend 1 hour per day in quiet meditation to regain his daily allotment of spells. A ranger may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation. Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level
and higher, his caster level is equal to his ranger level – 3.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a ranger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect him.

Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a ranger can move at his normal speed while using Survival to follow tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Evasion (Ex): When he reaches 9th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Ref lex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Quarry (Ex): At 11th level, a ranger can, as a standard action, denote one target within his line of sight as his quarry. Whenever he is following the tracks of his quarry, a ranger can take 10 on his Survival skill checks while moving at normal speed, without penalty. In addition, he receives a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls made against his quarry, and all critical threats are automatically confirmed. A ranger can have no more than one quarry at a time and the creature's type must correspond to one of his favored enemy types. He can dismiss this effect at any time as a free action, but he cannot select a new quarry for 24 hours. If the ranger sees proof that his quarry is dead, he can select a new quarry after waiting 1 hour.

Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 12th level or higher can use the Stealth skill to hide in any of his favored terrains, even if the terrain doesn't grant cover or concealment.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 16th level, a ranger's evasion improves. This ability works like evasion, except that while the ranger still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, he henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any of his favored terrains, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

Improved Quarry (Ex): At 19th level, the ranger's ability to hunt his quarry improves. He can now select a quarry as a free action, and can now take 20 while using Survival to track his quarry, while moving at normal speed without penalty. His insight bonus to attack his quarry increases to +4. If his quarry is killed or dismissed, he can select a new one after 10 minutes have passed.

Master Hunter (Ex):  A ranger of 20th level becomes a master hunter. He can always move at full speed while using Survival to follow tracks without penalty. He can, as a standard action, make a single attack against a favored enemy at his full attack bonus. If the attack hits, the target takes damage normally and must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the ranger's level + the ranger's Wisdom modifier. A ranger can choose instead to deal an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the creature's current hit points. A successful save negates this damage. A ranger can use this ability once per day against each favored enemy type he possesses, but not against the same creature more than once in a 24-hour period.

Comments: Small improvement... But in lemming-like fashion the Pathfinder Ranger leaps off the cliff right behind the D&D3.5 Ranger. Slavishly chained to the 20-lvl spread, it nickels and dimes the class with lackluster abilities that *should* be weighted heavier and more meaningful, but compared to other classes they come out as cut-rate. The real issue is this inability to define what the fuck a Ranger is - and instead it tries to be everyone's favorite flavor of an "outdoors warrior druid" from previous editions and videogames (looking at you WoW). And does a piss-poor job of representing those mechanics. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist - but as a CLASS there should be a unifying core principle, and everything else should be OPTIONAL. Because the class is now weighted with abilities that may be nothing but superflous to the player... but now you're stuck with it. Thanks for the Pet Shark anyhow.

Likewise - the definition doesn't quite match. Unique fighting abilties? They're literally lifting elements of the Fighter class and pretending they're something else. Once again - Favored Enemy is propped up as some big deal when most Rangers are going to be picking common low-level enemies that beyond a certain point are **inconsequential** to most bog-standard games. That 20th-level Capstone power? That's like being happy your GM gave you a +35 Longsword vs. Dolphins... but wait! there's more... you can BREATH UNDERWATER!!!! give me a break.

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Fantasy Craft Scout
Defined as: Few endure the wilderness as casually as the Scout and none but he truly thrive. As comfortable atop the frozen waste of northern glaciers as the murky depths of swamp lakes, the Scout fears nothing in nature -- not weather or beasts, not even the threatening promise of empty night. He can live off the land almost indefinitely and employs wild, unpredictable tactics most "civilized" adventurers never even consider. Depending on your campaign, a Scout could be...

- A military forward reconnoitering ahead of a massive army
- A bounty hunter seeking escaped mages
- The only guide to have escaped a band of frost giants and their snowy mountain gauntlet
- A grizzled monster hunter stalking creatures of nightmare in dungeons and deep jungles
- A canny tunnel denizen using guerrilla warfare to protect a non-human enclave from folk incursions

You stand out away from the hustle-bustle of cities, taking advantage of terrain and finding strategy where others find impediment. Better yet, you extend many of your most powerful abilities to the rest of  your party, keeping them one step ahead in rough country.

CLASS FEATURES
Favored Attributes: Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Blend, Medicine, Notice, Resolve, Ride, Sneak, Survival, Tactics
Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier per level
Vitality: 9 + Con modifier per level
Starting Proficiencies: 4

CORE ABILITY
Trailblazer: Your presence ensures that everyone survives even the most hostile environments. Once per scene as a free action, you may temporarily grant your teammates 1 of your Terrain feats until the end of the scene.

CLASS ABILITIES
Stalker: At Level 1, each time you fail a Survival or Tactics check and don't suffer an error, you still succeed as long as the check DC (or your opponent's check result) is equal to or less than your Class Level + 20. If several grades of success are possible, you achieve only the lowest possible positive result. If you gain this ability for either skill from two or more classes, add together your levels in all classes granting the ability when determining its effect.

Rough Living: Your time in the wild has toughened you. At Level 2, you gain a +2 bonus to Defense, as well as with saves prompted by the environment. At Levels 11 and 19, these bonuses increase by an additional +2 (to +4 at Level 11 and +6 at Level 19).

Bonus Feat: At Levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19, you gain 1 additional Ranged Combat or Terrain feat.

Sneak Attack: At Level 4, you gain an additional die of sneak attack damage. At Levels 8, 12, 16, and 20, you gain another additional die of sneak attack damage.

Huntsman: At Levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18, you may choose 1 of the following abilities. Each of these abilities may be chosen only once.

- Expertise: Choose one skill: Acrobatics, Athletics, Blend, Medicine, Notice, Resolve, Ride, Sneak, Survival, or Tactics. Taking 10 with this skill doesn't take twice as long and taking 20 takes only 10 times as long.
- Keen Senses: Your visual, hearing, and scent ranges increase by 20 ft.
- Killing Blow: It costs you 1 fewer action dice to activate a critical hit against an animal, elemental, fey, ooze, or plant (minimum 0).
- Low-Light Vision: You ignore the effects of dim and faint light.
- Master Handler: You're considered to have 5 additional ranks in Survival when training animals. This may cause you to exceed your maximum skill rank for these activities.
- Rough Riding: Your vehicle or mount ignores Speed penalties from terrain.
- Sprint: In combat, your Speed increases by 10 ft.
- Trail Signs: You suffer no penalties for Speed when making Track checks.
- Trophy Hunter: You can drop even the biggest game with a single attack. When you attack an animal, your threat range increases by 3.
- Turning: Your pleasant relationship with the natural world is... discretionary. Choose a Type from the following list: animal, elemental, fey, ooze, or plant. Once per combat you may Turn characters of this Type.

Master Tracker: You frequently have uncanny insight about your prey. At Level 10, once per session when you make a successful Track check, you also gain 1 clue about the target. At Level 20, you may use this ability twice per session.

Overrun: You know the first few seconds of any fight are critical. At Level 14, once per session at the start of combat, you may declare that you're "overrunning." While overrunning, if one of your attacks or a teammate's kills an opponent or knocks them unconscious, the attacker may immediately make an additional attack with the same weapon against another opponent. This continues until you and your teammates gain a combined number of additional attacks equal to your Class Level.

Comments: CLEARLY defined. Scouts are Wilderness Warriors. They thrive in the outdoors and are *deadly* ambush killers. What's more, is they made all of the other flavors of "3.x Ranger" possible as OPTIONS. You want a pet - pick the ability. And pets in Fantasy Craft are far more useful and powerful. You want spells? You're out of luck - it's covered by other class options. But nothing stops you from multi-classing to give you some Nature-magic. Otherwise there are a host of Specialties that give you the flavor of "nature lore" with mechanical benefits that let your Scout class really shine.

Another important distinction is that as a hunter, the Scout excels at ranged combat without sacrificing their melee skills people associate with "Rangers". How? Because they define Scouts as outdoors survivalist hunters, Range is what hunters use. BUT if you want to be good at melee - you get healthy amounts of Feats (which are FAR beefier than 3.x/PF) and you get Sneak Attack. Something that should be more the province of a professional hunter as much as an assassin. Further - in Fantasy Craft, the whole Two-Weapon Fighting thing is a bit different. Everyone gets 1-full actions per round, or 2-half-actions. So Two-weapon fighting a Style Feat that is uniform. Anyone can get it. Or if you want to dual-wield from the start, you can swing twice per-round with no penalty as long as you didn't move. Scouts are more inline with their stated concept vs. trying to be everything everyone wants in a Ranger - but those options are there too. Conversely you could start from another class and build towards a Scout if you want to emphasize those elements. Like all FC classes it clearly defines the class and stakes the mechanics on them in meaningful ways.

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I've never been fond of the Ranger, either conceptually or mechanically, so the FC Scout wins. However, what's this all about:

Quote from: tenbones;1141443- Turning: Your pleasant relationship with the natural world is... discretionary. Choose a Type from the following list: animal, elemental, fey, ooze, or plant. Once per combat you may Turn characters of this Type.

Turning, like a D&D cleric? What's the in-world explanation for that? The D&D cleric has holy powers, and they are castigating unholy creatures. We know this "makes sense" because we've seen it in Dracula movies. And I can see the rationale with animals; maybe the scout is "in tune with the animal kingdom" because we've seen that "make sense" in Crocodile Dundee and Attack of the Clones. But what is it about a scout that makes an ooze runaway in fear? Actually I can see this working with intelligent opponents. The fear would be the reputation of the hunter. Oberon the Fey King sees Cadmus the Fey Hunter and says "Screw this, I'm out of here!" But for the rest of that list, I'm drawing a blank.

This is one thing about the Crafty games that bugs me. For every eight ideas that are pure genius, there's one that leaves me scratching my head, like Quantum Cover, Insta-Disguise, Break Weapon with Bare Hands, or Never Knew I Knew Mandarin. But those are from SC, so maybe they fell by the wayside. Still, 8 to 1 is a better ratio than most games.

Quote from: Aglondir;1141676Turning, like a D&D cleric? What's the in-world explanation for that?

Whatever you want it to be. It's just an effect. Skin it however you like. My first guess is that it's meant to represent becoming so familiar with a particular type of creature that even when it's attacking you, you know what'll have a good chance of calming it down and getting it to leave you alone. Sure, you *could* just say that your connection to nature imbues you with some magical go-away power(and with the right background options, that could make sense), but . . . since the rest of the Scout stuff isn't magical, I seriously doubt that was the intent.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1141697Whatever you want it to be. It's just an effect. Skin it however you like. My first guess is that it's meant to represent becoming so familiar with a particular type of creature that even when it's attacking you, you know what'll have a good chance of calming it down and getting it to leave you alone. Sure, you *could* just say that your connection to nature imbues you with some magical go-away power(and with the right background options, that could make sense), but . . . since the rest of the Scout stuff isn't magical, I seriously doubt that was the intent.

Fair enough. One of my pet peeves is reliable in-world explanations for powers. Not so much realism-- "magic" or "the force" is fine. I would accept a number of explanations for how this power works, as long as the player puts some thought into it. "I have a cold iron weapon, which turns Fey" works. At any rate, it's a minor issue in an otherwise great class.

Love this thread. What's the next class?

It's probably going to have to be the Wizard/Mage and Cleric/Priest.

Which poses a bit of quandary - because at that point, that's where the only direct overlap between classes exists between these games.

Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Sorcerer do not have direct classes in Fantasy Craft, rather they're backgrounds that inform other classes. Which means if we go Wizard/Mage, Cleric/Priest - we're cracking open the Magic System... and I'd prefer we'd save those classes/systems for last so we can see how Feats and Skills work... because one of the biggest "issues" in 3.x is the Caster/Non-Caster issues.

If I choose not to do the Magic classes first...

That means we have to decide which classes get emphasis first. Obviously Pathfinder/D&D3.5 map to one another almost one-for-one. So I'll leave it to you guys:

1) Are you all more interested in me outlining the remaining Fantasy Craft classes that DO NOT map directly to D&D3.x and Pathfinder? Then do Skills/Feats. THEN do Magic classes/system? (This includes: Assassin, Captain, Courtier, Explorer, Keeper, Lancer and Sage).

2) Or do you want me to dive into the Magic classes that map to all three classes, then do #1 above after?

TBH, I've been thinking that a lot of the classes you've posted are hard to appreciate without delving into Feats, since they all seem to have a significant number of feats as a major feature. And sometimes a lot of their potential functionality is hidden behind those feats, like in the case with Scouts and pets. There's a great deal of stuff about classes in FC that seems to be tied to feats or subsystems that don't exist in D&D, like reputation or stuff like vitality and wound points, and differences in how sneak attacks work, etc. that are hard to understand without knowing what all that stuff is about.

It's a very salient point - especially as it pertains to Fantasy Craft since so much of the class system balance is based around Feats. And that's where most of these system-differences really add up.

But I don't want to lose the thread, so to speak on outlining the classes, because once we get into the Feats... that's when everyone will really see the differences in the systems which might take us down other rabbit-holes.

But I'm game to start looking at Feats and how they connect to non-magic classes if that's what everyone wants. We can circle back on Magic Classes and the Magic subsystems after. Then we can put it all together and do some direct build comparisons.

Thoughts?

Quote from: tenbones;1141924Thoughts?

I think that without delving into the feat system its already hard to see a lot of point to the FC classes you've already detailed.

In a sense they're all akin to the 3e Fighter... we know the fighter get feats, but unless we see what the feats can actually do we're not really looking at a class... we're looking at the framework of a class.

Actually, its the same for the 3e wizard and cleric too... those classes are mostly just empty containers that without the spell system have no meaning or ability to judge strengths or weaknesses objectively.

Honestly, you probably should have STARTED with the feat system before even getting into the FC classes as they all seem highly dependent upon them; that the classes are mostly feat containers with a few extras and not something like say, the 3e Monk, where nearly all of its features are contained within the class proper.

that's sound emergent logic.

In fact it's one of the problems I find a LOT of people new to Fantasy Craft have. D&D/PF have all their subsystems designed fairly discrete from one another (which is why it doesn't really fit their primary 20-lvl design structure). Whereas Fantasy Craft is *so* deeply connected, starting at Feats (which you're not wrong in your conclusion) seems unintituitive for the purposes of demonstrating these differences.

So I'm going to take a little bit from Column A, and Column B.

I'm going to get into the Feats - but i'm going to apply them specifically to the Fighter/Soldier and Rogue/Burglar so everyone can see what these functional differences are. We'll do a mini-build at the end. THEN we'll do casters. I think that is a better way to present it.

Sounds like a solid plan.

This isn't a beratement since I actually like the structure of it, but in some ways FC character building feels like 4E's. The 4E classes themselves had maybe 2-3 actual mechanics that defined them and everything else came down to the power and feat selections which your race and class helped define access to and which in turn defined your character far more than your handful of base class features ever did.

In essence, a FC class appears about as defining on its own as saying "sorcerer" in D&D... spell choice is EVERYTHING. They could be a blaster, an illusionist, a necromancer, a summoner, etc. depending on what they filled their limited spells known slots with. In this case though it's the feats that are filling in those details.

Sort of. I think FC does a very good job of defining its classes exactly as what they are and what they're designed to do.

What is not apparent to D&D players with any experience (especially) - is that the system outside of the class sub-system gives you an intense amount of options that do not necessarily detract from the class, but exist as a set of possibilities for both the GM and the players to explore those options contextual to their setting.

It's very very hard to do that in Pathfinder where the class definitions do not match the mechanical reality of the class itself. So when you look at the Ranger as a great example - in D&D/PF the class is trying to do like three or four different archetypes of what has evolved to mean "Ranger" from both D&D's previous editions, as well as MMO's and novels. It's not that any of these things are "incorrect* in terms of what they represent, but the problem is they're mutually exclusive in their mechanical expressions to one another - and worse, "balanced" by presumption against all other classes by design.

So you're cut-rate at being a Wilderness Fighter, Pet Class, Quasi-Druid, and Barbarian - but the class is designed to be all of those things. The Feat system in PF and D&D3.x don't do it any favors, nor do the inherent combat task-resolution systems. So what should be a perfectly fine concept, ends up being a mish-mash, because the class-design of D&D3.x and Pathfinder which emulated it, place a far far heavier design emphasis on the class sub-system rather than a clearer, more focused design - but a more robust set of optional systems for the players and GM to express their setting and powerful choices for those Fantasy Craft classes to directly interact with that system.

It's a very important distinction that really struck me - even as *I* was doing design-work for 3.x/PF - and it had been haunting me the whole time I was writing for Dragon and Goodman. I was constantly trying to bridge that gap and fighting editorial. When I saw Fantasy Craft, it was far more rigorous in its application of a lot of the design principles that were missing that I was only scratching at by comparison.

okay I'll start working on Feat write up. It's a fairly big task unto itself, like biting an elephant. I'm just deciding where I'm going to dig in first heh.

At least part of it's simple enough to explain. FC Feats fall into a number of different categories, and you'll notice that classes with Bonus Feats limit them to specific categories. Scout for example, gives bonus feats from the Ranged Combat and Terrain categories. Burglar, to choose the other class already covered, get their Bonus Feats from the Melee Combat and Covert categories. And you'll notice the Soldier - the closest analog to the Fighter - is fully defined and gets no bonus feats at all.

Other than that, just know that feat "trees" are never more than 3 deep, and there are none of those crap feats you only take to get to the good stuff. Even if you only go 1 or 2 feats into a particular tree, you'll get some good stuff that'll probably be useful forever. Yeah, of course you'll want to be familiar with how a particular subsystem works before taking a related Feat, but . . . if you know how D&D feats work, there aren't any surprises here. Meet prerequisites. Acquire feats. Get benefits.

Okay - so before we get into the Magic subsystems, and the classes that plug into them, we're diving into Feats.

Feats
Feats in D&D3e were a design concept that were intended to both improve and differentiate characters in mechanically meaningful ways. Pathfinder and Fantasy Craft, as derivatives of D&D3e, likewise use the Feat system, but Fantasy Craft approaches them with different assumptions and expression. Feats are usually acquired as part of the leveling progression, and scale by holding pre-requisites to attain ostensibly more powerful mechanical benefits. Introduced as a balancing feature is that some Classes acquire more Feats as a class-feature.


D&D 3.5 Feats
Feats are categorized by Types. These Types include General, Item Creation, and Meta-Magic. In practice, Feats will allow for differentiation from normal Class restrictions (or in some cases core rules themselves) by allowing exceptions to baseline rules. In other cases they modify the standard core rules along alternate mechanical paths that work in parallel with normal task-resolution. Most of the time Feats in D&D3.5 grant bonuses to various checks, or grants penalties to checks made against the PC.

As Feat acquisition in D&D3.5 generally happens by normal level progression for most classes, gained at every third-level, it places a premium on their importance in terms of expressing the mechanical specialization of ones PC. Whether this is emergent based on the game, or it's pre-determined (aka The Build) for optimization purposes - the Feat mechanics as written will drive PC's into very specialized channels of play, whose benefits are relative to the kind of game one plays. D&D3e introduced the idea that certain advanced Feats will have other Feats as pre-requisites. What emerged was that some Feats were pre-requisites to several Feats, which made them almost mandatory in order to engage in certain styles of play. This leads to a phenomenon of what is called a "Feat Tax" where in order to get to some mechanically previously assumed style of play, but now is gated behind mechanical penalties until certain Feats were acquired.

Here are a brief rundown on Feats and their effects.

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For the purposes of Feat analysis - we'll need to put Pathfinder's list up. Then we'll look at Fantasy Craft - which will be a bit more comprehensive, since Feats in Fantasy Craft plug into other aspects of the system that will require some explanation.

Then we'll look at some small character "Builds" and examine how each character operates mechanically under their respective systems. I'm open to suggestions with the following caveats:

1) No dedicated magic classes until we go over those Classes.
2) Let's try to cover the classes we've covered (which is pretty limited right now) - but if you have a concept idea and want me to try and model it, I'm game. I'll go over all the other Fantasy Craft classes (and Expert/Prestige) classes from the other systems after.

Pathfinder Feats
Pathfinder scales slightly higher in terms of number of Feats as well as in terms of mechanical benefit. They organize their feats into cleaner categories - Combat, Critical, Item Creation, Metamagic.

They do retain most, if not all, of the conventions of the 3.5 Feat System in terms of gating certain playstyles (as defined by merely *having* the Feat) almost perfectly. So it suffers from excessive Feat taxing, and while there is a mechanical uptick in terms of power, it only serves to show how underpowered the Feats are in practice relative to the non-casters whose Magic subsystem renders most of the non-Metamagic Feats superfluous. I.e. Casters exist in another mechanical sphere entirely whereas non-casters are chained to the Feat system to express their "style" of play. Whereas non-casters suffer literally nothing.

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So Pathfinder does have some extra stuff - they extend some of the Feat trees with extra options. But it does so without extending the Feat acquisition economy which is largely static. This has the - and I'm going to say this to be generous - UNINTENDED side-effect of either giving the illusion of options, as they're certainly optional, or rather plainly it encourages hyper-optimization because Feats in both 3.e/Pathfinder are largely mechanically weak. And they only get weaker as one scales the game up in level which unfortunately many of these "options" are gated behind simply by dint of the fact that Level Progression equals Feat Acquisition.

It becomes, for non-casters, a sub-system of very diminishing returns relative to the assumed level of gameplay based on the Level Progression system.

Just  to clarify, are you using the first or second printing of Fantasy Craft for this comparison? I know the changes between the two are relatively small, but from everything I've read, if somebody new to the system is looking to invest, the second printing is the better choice.

Quote from: Broken Twin;1142149Just  to clarify, are you using the first or second printing of Fantasy Craft for this comparison? I know the changes between the two are relatively small, but from everything I've read, if somebody new to the system is looking to invest, the second printing is the better choice.

Everything for Fantasy Craft is 2nd Printing. I'm not sure you can even purchase the first printing in PDF and most copies in circulation of hardback are 2nd printing (but yes - you should definitely check if you buy a dead-tree copy first).

Excellent. Fantasy Craft is easily my favorite crunchy D20 system, but I doubt I'll ever be able to convince my group to run it (though they do enjoy Pathfinder). So I'm always happy when I see it come up outside of Crafty's (functionally dead) forums. Hopefully I'll eventually be able to point them at this thread as a way of convincing them to give it a try.

Fantasy Craft Feats

Fantasy Craft Feats share many of the organizational qualities of D&D3.x and Pathfinder.

They share a similar baseline acquisition progression (every third level) however - Fantasy Craft grants you more Feats from other sources than just ones level. In Fantasy Craft your Specialty (Background) grants you a Feat, as well as Class will give you several Feat options. FC Feats also use Prerequisite mechanics, including the use of Feat Trees with a design caveat that no Feat Tree is deeper than three Feats. This minimizes Feat Taxation and coupled with the implicit goal of allowing you to express some "style" of specialization that compounds prerequisite bonuses rather than nickel-and-dime you at the expense of Feat acquisition tied to level progression.

Feat Categories

Basic Combat Feats

ARMOR BASICS
You're quite comfortable in armor.
Benefits: While you wear armor, its Defense penalty drops by 1, its ACP drops by 1, and its Speed penalty drops by 5 ft. (in all cases, minimum 0).

Note: ACP stands for Armor Check Penalty which is applied for making physical skill checks. For example Plate armor has an ACP of -3 which might sound harsh - but the assumption is that martial characters will offset these penalties with Feats and quality of Gear (which will examine later) - where you can get your armor Fitted, Articulated, be Dwarven/Elven crafted - and a whole host of other options that can get very granular.

ARMOR MASTERY
You instinctively protect vulnerable spots.
Prerequisites: Armor Basics
Benefits: While you wear armor, its DR increases by 1 and you may not be targeted with Coup de Grace actions.

Note: DR is damage absorption. Unlike D&D3.x and Pathfinder, armor in Fantasy Craft absorbs damage directly.

ARMOR SUPREMACY
You're as comfortable and secure in armor as a turtle in his shell.
Prerequisites: Armor Mastery
Benefits: While you wear armor, its DR increases by an additional 1 (total 2) and you're immune to sneak attack damage.

CHARGING BASICS
You sometimes hurl yourself into the enemy, unleashing devastating fury.
Benefit: Your Speed increases by 5 ft. and you gain a trick.
Charge (Run Trick): You may make 1 free attack at any point during your movement (ignoring adjacency for that attack only). You may use this ability a number of times per combat equal to your starting action dice.

CHARGING MASTERY
You're a raging, slashing bull on the battlefield.
Prerequisites: Charging Basics
Benefit: When you Charge, you may make up to 2 free attacks, each at any point during your movement.

CHARGING SUPREMACY
You're the moving center of a sticky red haze.
Prerequisites: Charging Mastery
Benefit: While Charging, you may roll damage twice, keeping the result you prefer.

Note: Charging doesn't distinguish between being mounted OR on foot. This is intentional.

COMBAT FOCUS
Your sense of timing is deadly accurate.
Benefit: You may double one of your attribute bonuses for a single attack, damage roll, or save. You may use this ability a number of times per scene equal to the number of Basic Combat feats you have.

COMBAT INSTINCTS
You react instinctively to fresh opportunities.
Benefit: Once per round when an adjacent opponent attacks you and misses, you gain a free attack against him. If this attack hits, it inflicts only 1/2 damage (rounded up).

COMBAT VIGOR
You shrug aside even punishing blows.
Benefit: Your vitality points are calculated as if your Constitution modifier were 1 higher.

Note: Vitality = HP.

CONTEMPT
You haven't the time for lesser foes!
Benefit: Once per round, you may make a free attack against a standard character. You may use this ability a number of times per combat equal to your starting action dice.

ELUSIVE
You deftly avoid many attacks.
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count you may accept a penalty with your attack and skill checks of up to –4 to gain an equal dodge bonus to your Defense until the start of your next Initiative Count.

EXPERT DISARM
That's your weapon now…
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus with Disarm attack checks and when you successfully disarm an opponent you may either choose the square in which his weapon lands or (if you're adjacent to the opponent) catch and arm the weapon as a free action. Also, you don't become flat-footed when you fail a Disarm action.

GREAT FORTITUDE
You're one tough customer.
Benefit: Your base Fortitude save bonus increases by +3. You also gain 3 extra wound points.

Note: Wounds are essentially your Con rating. When it comes to Critical hits, you bypass Vitality (HP) and the damage goes directly to Wounds. So yeah,this Feat is actually quite powerful.

IRON WILL
Your strength of will is legendary.
Benefit: Your base Will save bonus increases by +3. Also, once per scene as a free action, you may shrug off 1 fatigued or shaken grade.

Note: Shaken and Fatigued are conditions that can be applied through *many* sources including Social combat. So this Feat is especially useful outside of "normal" combat.

LIGHTNING REFLEXES
You have the speed and grace of a mighty predator!
Benefit: Your base Reflex save bonus increases by +3. You may also roll twice when making Initiative checks, keeping the result you prefer.

QUICK DRAW
You juggle weapons like witty people juggle quips.
Benefit: Twice per round, you may Handle an Item as a free action.

SNAKE STRIKE
It's worth it just for the shock that creeps across their bloody faces.
Prerequisites: Quick Draw
Benefit: Once per opponent per combat, as a free action, you may draw 1 weapon you haven't used during the current combat and use it to Feint 1 opponent. With success, your attacks inflict
1 die of sneak attack damage until end of the current round.

Note: Feint is a skill check and if successful - your opponent is Flat-footed (No Dex bonus to Defense or Dodge bonuses. Plus being Flat-footed opens you up to other types of special attacks.

SURGE OF SPEED
Your moments count.
Benefit: Once per round you may take 1 additional non-attack half action as a free action. You may use this ability a number of times per session equal to your starting action dice.

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING
You fight most effectively with weapons in both hands.
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count when you're armed with two 1-handed weapons you may accept a –2 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative
Count. Once during your current Initiative Count you may take a half action to make 1 Standard Attack with each of those weapons.

Note: In Fantasy Craft you get 1 Full action or 2 Half-actions. An attack is a Half-action. This Feat means you can do use ONE Half-action to attack with each weapon. This leaves you with a half-action to do other things (like attack a third time with one weapon).

TWO-WEAPON STYLE
It's like each hand -- and weapon -- has a mind of its own.
Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count when you're armed with two 1-handed weapons you may accept a –5 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during your current Initiative Count you may take a full action to make 2 Standard Attacks with each of those weapons. If any of your attacks miss this round, you become flat-footed at the end of your current Initiative Count.

Note: So this means you could make *5* attacks in one round. 2 attacks with each weapon TWICE. Then your last half-action could be another attack, or cleaning your swords or whatever.

WOLF PACK BASICS
Controlled chaos is your best friend.
Benefit: You gain an additional +2 bonus when attacking a flanked opponent (total +4).

WOLF PACK MASTERY
You spot every opening.
Prerequisites: Wolf Pack Basics
Benefit: You inflict 1 die of sneak attack damage when attacking a flanked opponent. Also, an opponent becomes flanked when you and any teammate are both adjacent to him in any configuration.

WOLF PACK SUPREMACY
You don't leave much for the next guy. You're greedy that way.
Prerequisites: Wolf Pack Mastery
Benefit: Your threat range increases by 1 and you inflict 1 additional die of sneak attack damage when attacking a flanked opponent (total 2 sneak attack dice).

Melee Combat Feats

ALL-OUT ATTACK
You hit hard. Really hard.
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count you may accept a penalty with your attack and skill checks of up to –4 to gain an insight bonus with melee damage rolls equal to twice that number until the start of your next Initiative Count. If any of your attacks miss this round, you become flat-footed at the end of your current Initiative Count.

AXE BASICS
The bite of your axe isn't limited to the reach of your arm.
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: When you wield an axe it gains hurl and you gain a stance.
Punish the Defiant (Stance): Opponents who haven't moved since your Initiative Count last round are denied their Dexterity bonus to Defense against your melee attacks.

Note: Forte is an indicator you have spent a Proficiency point in an entire category of weapons. Edged, Blunt, Hurled, Bows, Black Powder, Siege. You get +1 hit with anything in your Forte. It also opens up certain Feats to you, along with fighting stances. Stances have to be called out before you roll initiative for you to gain the benefits.

AXE MASTERY
First the shield, then the squishy thing behind it!
Prerequisites: Axe Basics
Benefit: When you wield a 1-handed axe it gains bleed and when you wield a 2-handed axe its gains guard +2. Also, you gain a trick.
Sundering Chop (Axe Attack Trick): Your attack also inflicts the same damage on 1 piece of gear on the target's person (your choice).

AXE SUPREMACY
Mortal man or mighty oak -- your sweeping blade cuts them all down with ease.  
Prerequisites: Axe Mastery
Benefit: Your Strength score rises by 1 and you gain a trick.
Cleave in Twain (Axe Attack Trick): If your target is a  standard character with a lower Strength score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn't rolled). You may use this trick once per round.

CLEAVE BASICS
With just a taste of blood, your blade's thirst becomes legendary.
Benefit: Once per round, when one of your melee attacks kills an opponent or knocks him out, you may immediately make another Standard Attack with the same weapon as a free action.

CLEAVE MASTERY
You cut through foes like gory stacks of cordwood.
Prerequisites: Cleave Basics
Benefit: Your melee threat range against standard characters increases by 1. Also, you may use your Cleave Basics feat ability any number of times per round.

CLEAVE SUPREMACY
There is naught but a bloody trail of splintered bone and gristle in your wake.
Prerequisites: Cleave Mastery
Benefit: You activate melee critical hits against standard characters for 1 less action die (minimum 0). Also, each time one of your melee attacks kills an opponent or knocks him out, you may move 5 ft. before taking the additional attack, so long as the total distance you travel each round does not exceed your Speed.

CLUB BASICS
You definitely bring the beat down.
Prerequisites: Blunt forte
Benefit: Each of your club attacks may inflict your choice of lethal or subdual damage instead of the weapon's normal damage (no penalty or damage decrease occurs). Also, you gain a stance.
Driving Stance (Stance): Each time you hit an adjacent opponent with a melee attack, they're pushed 5 ft. away from you (assuming there's an empty square behind them). If they're pushed, you may move into the square they previously occupied.

CLUB MASTERY
One look at you and people start to recall urgent appointments elsewhere.
Prerequisites: Club Basics
Benefit: When holding a readied club you gain a +4 gear bonus with Intimidate checks. Also, you gain a trick.
Brained (Club Attack Trick): This trick may only be used when inflicting subdual damage. If the target fails his save against subdual damage, he instead fails 2 saves.

CLUB SUPREMACY
You're like an earthquake -- a thunderous, explosive, unstoppable force of nature.
Prerequisites: Club Mastery
Benefit: When you wield a 1-handed club it gains lure and when you wield a 2-handed club its Reach increases by 1. Also, you gain a trick.
Earth Shaker (Club Trip Trick): You may Trip as a full-action, targeting all opponents within 10 ft. You roll only once while each opponent rolls to resist separately.

DARTING WEAPON
Your strikes are almost too fast to follow.
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count when
you're armed with a single melee weapon, you may accept a –2 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during that round you may take a half action to make 2 Standard Attacks with that weapon.

FENCING BASICS
Your swift movements offer no respite.
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: Once per round, you may make a free attack with a fencing blade against an adjacent flat-footed character. You inflict only 1/2 normal damage with this attack (rounded up). Also, you gain a stance.
Work the Line (Stance): Each time an adjacent opponent attacks you and misses, you may move 5 ft. and draw the opponent into the square you previously occupied. Also, each time an adjacent opponent moves away from you, you may immediately move into the square he just left.

FENCING MASTERY
Your attackers pay in blood -- and tears.
Prerequisites: Fencing Basics
Benefit: Each of your fencing blade attacks may inflict your choice of lethal or stress damage instead of the weapon's normal damage (no penalty or damage decrease occurs). Also, you gain a trick.
En Garde! (Fencing Blade Total Defense Trick): Each opponent who moves into a square adjacent to you must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + your Dex modifier + the number of Melee Combat feats you have) or be automatically hit by your fencing blade.

FENCING SUPREMACY
You play with your foes like a cat… until you get bored. Then you do that other thing cats do.
Prerequisites: Fencing Mastery
Benefit: Your Dexterity score rises by 1 and you gain a trick.
Touche! (Fencing Blade Attack Trick): If your target is a standard character with a lower Dexterity score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn't rolled). You may use this trick once per round.

Note: Standard Characters are Mooks. Effectively when you damage a Mook they must make a saving throw vs. Damage. Special Characters are PC's and NPC's that are integral/important. Special Characters get Vitality and Wounds. When a Standard Character is hit - they make a Damage Save or "drop out of the fight" this could be unconscious, dead, or whatever the GM decides. The normal save is 10 + 1/2 Damage of any accumulated damage. So yes, this means in Fencing Supremacy a PC with this ability will auto-kill one minion per round.

FLAIL BASICS
Usually there's a blur, and then a thunk, and then the fight's over.
Prerequisites: Blunt forte
Benefit: Once per round you may make a free attack with a flail against an adjacent flat-footed character. You suffer a –4 penalty with this attack. Also, you gain a stance.
Whirling Serpent (Stance): You gain a bonus with your melee attack checks and damage rolls equal to the number of successful melee attacks you made last round. Opponents may not Anticipate your actions and you may not take move actions (though you may still take Bonus 5-ft. Steps as normal).

FLAIL MASTERY
Your approach is simple: speed, versatility, and an unbelievable number of strikes!
Prerequisites: Flail Basics
Benefit: You may use a flail to perform club or garrote tricks. Also, you gain a trick.
Thresher Spin (Flail Attack Trick): If this attack hits it counts as 2 melee hits made this round. You may use this trick up to twice per round.

FLAIL SUPREMACY
In your hands the humble flail can topple kings.
Prerequisites: Flail Mastery
Benefit: Once per round you may immediately make a free attack with a flail against an opponent who moves into a square adjacent to you. You suffer a –4 penalty with this attack. Also, you gain a trick.
Leaping Arc (Flail Attack Trick): You may substitute your Acrobatics (Dex) bonus in place of your melee attack bonus. If the attack misses you become flat-footed at the end of your Initiative
Count. You may use this trick as many times per combat as you have Melee Combat feats.

FLASHING WEAPON
That blur across their vision? Yeah, that's your weapon.
Prerequisites: Darting Weapon
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count when you're armed with a single melee weapon, you may accept a –5 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during your current Initiative Count you may take a full action to make 4 Standard Attacks with that weapon. If any of your attacks miss this round, you become flat-footed at the end of your current Initiative Count.

GREATSWORD BASICS
You handle even the largest of blades like a delicate dance partner.
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: When you wield a greatsword it gains guard +2. Also, you gain a stance.
Overpowering Force (Stance): When you use a 2-handed melee weapon to hit an opponent who hasn't moved since your Initiative Count last round, you inflict the weapon's maximum damage (sneak attack damage and other random bonuses are rolled normally). You may not take move actions (though you may still take 5-ft. Bonus Steps as normal).

GREATSWORD MASTERY
Even the largest of blades is like a graceful feather to you.
Prerequisites: Greatsword Basics
Benefit: You may use a greatsword to perform hammer and sword tricks. Also, you gain a trick.
Blade Wall (Greatsword Total Defense Trick): Each opponent who tries to move into a square adjacent to you must make a Will save (DC 10 + your Str modifier + the number of Melee Combat feats you have) or end their movement in the previous square.

GREATSWORD SUPREMACY
You sweep foes aside like a deranged windmill.
Prerequisites: Greatsword Mastery
Benefit: Your Strength score rises by 1 and you gain a trick.
Spiral Cutter (Greatsword Attack Trick): You may make a single attack check with a –4 penalty against every character within 10 ft. You become flat-footed at the end of your Initiative Count. You may use this trick once per round.

HAMMER BASICS
Your crushing blows reshape the battlefield.
Prerequisites: Blunt forte
Benefit: When you wield a hammer it gains AP 2 and you gain a stance.
Turn the Millstone (Stance): Each time you hit an adjacent opponent with a 2-handed melee weapon, you may also move them into any empty square adjacent to you.

HAMMER MASTERY
Castle walls? Castle guards? Meh. Same difference.
Prerequisites: Hammer Basics
Benefit: You inflict double damage when attacking objects or scenery with a hammer. Also, you gain a trick.
Bone Crusher (Hammer Attack Trick): The target must also make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + your Str modifier + the number of Melee Combat feats you have) or suffer 1 point of Constitution impairment. This may not lower the target's Constitution score below 6.

HAMMER SUPREMACY
At this point every foe starts to look like a nail.
Prerequisites: Hammer Mastery
Benefit: Your Constitution rises by 1 and you gain a trick.
Splatter (Hammer Attack Trick): If the target is a standard character with a lower Constitution score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn't rolled). You may use this trick once per round.

KNIFE BASICS
You're done with the fight before most folks know it's started.
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: All knives on your person are considered armed at all times. Also, you gain a stance.
Wicked Dance (Stance): Your 1-handed melee attacks inflict 2 additional dice of sneak attack damage. You may not take move actions (though you may still take 5-ft. Bonus Steps as normal).

KNIFE MASTERY
It's easier to whittle people than twigs -- and more fun.
Prerequisites: Knife Basics
Benefit: Once per round you may Feint an opponent that you've hit with a knife this round as a free action. You suffer a –4 penalty with the Prestidigitation check. Also, you gain a trick.
Blade Flurry (Knife Attack Trick): If you hit by 4 or more, you inflict the knife's damage an additional time. If you hit by  10 or more, you inflict the knife's damage two additional times. In both cases, roll separately each time you inflict damage.

KNIFE SUPREMACY
Hamstrings, kidneys, and throats -- when slashing at people, it's good to have a little variety.
Prerequisites: Knife Mastery
Benefit: Your knife attacks inflict 1 die of sneak attack damage. Also, you gain a trick.
Shank! (Knife Attack Trick): If the target is a standard character with a lower Intelligence score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn't rolled). You may use this trick once per round.

POLEARM BASICS
One foot of steel, eight feet of death!
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: When you wield a polearm it gains hook. Also, you gain a stance.
Spinning Shield (Stance): You gain DR against bow and hurled weapon damage equal to the number of Melee Combat feats you have.

Note: The Hook weapon-quality gives the wielder +2 to any attempts to Disarm an opponent.

POLEARM MASTERY
When you put them down, they don't get back up.
Prerequisites: Polearm Basics
Benefit: Once per round you may immediately make a free polearm attack against an opponent who moves into a square adjacent to you. You inflict only 1/2 damage with this attack (rounded up). Also, you gain a trick.
Topple and Gut (Polearm Trip Trick): You also inflict your polearm's damage.

POLEARM SUPREMACY
Experience has its perks, among them not getting tooled.
Prerequisites: Polearm Mastery
Benefit: Your Wisdom score rises by 1. Also, you gain a trick.
Skull Crack (Polearm Attack Trick): If the target is a standard character with a lower Wisdom score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn't rolled). You may use this trick once per round.

SHIELD BASICS
Shoulder to shoulder or leading the charge, your shield shines at the front of every battle line.
Prerequisites: Blunt forte
Benefit: You gain a +4 gear bonus when Bull Rushing with an armed shield. Also, you gain a stance.
Phalanx Fighting (Stance): Each adjacent ally gains a +1 bonus to Defense and Reflex saves. This bonus increases to +2 when you wield a weapon with guard +2 or higher. The maximum bonus a character may gain from allies in this stance is +4.

SHIELD MASTERY
Your cunning shield-work turns every blade and punishes every lapse.
Prerequisites: Shield Basics
Benefit: When you wield a shield the armor-piercing and keen qualities of attacks targeting you decrease by the number of Melee Combat feats you have. Also, you gain a trick.
Shield Slam (Shield Attack Trick): This trick may only be used when inflicting subdual damage. If the target fails his save against subdual damage, he's also stunned for 1 round.

SHIELD SUPREMACY
You're a one-man fortress.
Prerequisites: Shield Mastery
Benefit: When you wield a shield its guard quality increases by +2. Also, you gain a trick.
Throw Them Back! (Shield Total Defense Trick): Each opponent who tries to move into a square adjacent to you must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + your Str modifier + the number of Melee Combat feats you have) or end their movement in the previous square.

SPEAR BASICS
You like to keep one hand free for more important things -- like mocking your opponent.
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: When you wield a 1-handed spear its Reach increases by 1 and when you wield a 2-handed spear its gains bleed. Also, you gain a stance.
Monkey's Grip (Stance): You may wield a single 2-handed melee weapon with one hand.

SPEAR MASTERY
Sometimes brute force actually is the answer.
Prerequisites: Spear Basics
Benefit: You may use a spear to perform staff and polearm tricks. Also, you gain a trick.
Falling Lightning (Spear Attack Trick): You may substitute your Athletics (Str) bonus for your melee attack bonus. If the attack misses you become flat-footed at the end of your Initiative Count. You may use this trick as many times per combat as you have Melee Combat feats.

SPEAR SUPREMACY
What do shish kebabs and your enemies have in common?
Prerequisites: Spear Mastery
Benefit: When you wield a spear it gains hurl. Also, you gain a trick.
Run Through (Spear Bull Rush Trick): If the target is a standard character with a lower Strength score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn't rolled). You may use this trick
once per round.

STAFF BASICS
Some people call it a "stick." You call it "insurance."
Prerequisites: Blunt forte
Benefit: When you wield a staff its Reach increases by 1. Also, you gain a stance.
Whirling Guard (Stance): Standard characters cannot flank you.

STAFF MASTERY
Arm's length is for amateurs! Now, the length of a small tree…
Prerequisites: Staff Basics
Benefit: When you wield a staff it gains guard +2. Also, you gain a trick.
Wall of Branches (Staff Total Defense Trick): Each opponent who tries to move into a square adjacent to you must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + your Str modifier + the number of Melee Combat feats you have) or end their movement in the previous square.

STAFF SUPREMACY
Even if they get through your makeshift rotary shield, you're rarely still there to greet them.
Prerequisites: Staff Mastery
Benefit: While holding an armed staff you gain a +4 gear bonus with Tumble and Jump checks. Also, you gain a trick.
Guardian's Circle (Staff Total Defense Trick): You gain DR against melee and unarmed attacks equal to the number of Melee Combat feats you have.

SWORD BASICS
Not everyone sees a sword's true flexibility and depth. Pity them.
Prerequisites: Edged forte
Benefit: Once per round as a free action, you may Anticipate an opponent that you've hit with a sword this round. You suffer a –4 penalty with the Sense Motive check. Also, you gain a stance.
Martial Spirit (Stance): You gain a +1 bonus with melee attack checks and a +3 bonus with melee damage rolls.

SWORD MASTERY
The risks and rewards of battle are laid bare before you.
Prerequisites: Sword Basics
Benefit: You may use a sword to perform polearm or spear tricks. Also, you gain a trick.
Bury the Blade (Sword Attack Trick): If you hit by 4 or more, your attack gains keen 10.

Note: Keen weapon-quality increases your threat-range by this number. So in this case - if you roll 4 higher than your target number your weapon's threat increases by 10!!! (not counting any other bonuses you have).

SWORD SUPREMACY
It's sometimes called the Prince of Arms. In your hands it's the King of War.
Prerequisites: Sword Mastery
Benefit: Your sword attacks inflict +1 damage per 2 your attack check exceeds the target's Defense. Also, you gain a trick.
Think Ahead (Sword Attack Trick): You may substitute your Sense Motive (Wis) bonus for your melee attack bonus. If the attack misses you become flat-footed at the end of your Initiative Count. You may use this trick as many times per combat as you have Melee Combat feats.

WHIP BASICS
The whip really is an extension of your arm.
Prerequisites: Blunt forte
Benefit: While holding a readied whip, your Reach for Handling Items and Tiring increases by 2. Also, you gain a stance.
Vicious Intensity (Stance): If you made no attacks last round you gain a +2 bonus with melee attack checks and damage rolls this round.

WHIP MASTERY
Come into my parlor, said the spider…
Prerequisites: Whip Basics
Benefit: When you wield a whip its Reach increases by 1.
Also, you gain a trick.
Entwine (Whip Attack Trick): If the target is your Size or smaller, he's also pulled into the nearest empty square adjacent to you and targeted by a Trip action using your attack result.

WHIP SUPREMACY
You spin a web of pain and surprise.
Prerequisites: Whip Mastery
Benefit: Each of your whip attacks may inflict your choice of lethal, stress, or subdual damage instead of the weapon's normal damage (no penalty or damage decrease occurs). Also, you gain a trick.
Thrash (Whip Attack Trick): If the target fails his save against stress damage, he instead fails 2 saves.

Ranged Combat Feats

ANGRY HORNET
Your arrows fly with lethal fleetness.
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count when you're armed with a bow or thrown weapon you may accept a –2 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during your current Initiative Count you may take a half action to make 2 Standard Attacks with that weapon. You may not use this ability with weapons that have the load quality.

BOW BASICS
Your aim is true and your arrows fatal.
Requirements: Bows forte
Benefit: When you wield a bow it gains AP 2 and you gain a stance:
Deadshot (Stance): You gain a +2 bonus with ranged weapon attacks and damage. You may not move while in this stance (though you may still take 5-ft. Bonus Steps as normal).

BOW MASTERY
In your hands, a bow can deliver the wrath of the gods.
Requirements: Bow Basics
Benefit: When you wield a bow its maximum range increases by 4 increments (e.g. from ×6 to ×10). Also, you gain a trick.
Eagle Eye (Bow Attack Trick): You may substitute your Search (Wis) bonus for your ranged attack bonus. If the attack misses you become flat-footed at the end of your Initiative Count. You may use this trick as many times per combat as you have Ranged Combat feats.

BOW SUPREMACY
You exploit your bow in ways undreamt of by…less creative archers.
Requirements: Bow Mastery
Benefit: When you wield a bow it gains spike and you gain a trick.
Multi-Shot (Bow Attack Trick): Using this trick fires 3 arrows or bolts. If you hit by 4 or more, you inflict your ammunition's damage an additional time. If you hit by 10 or more, you inflict your ammunition's damage two additional times. In both cases, roll separately each time you inflict damage.

BLACKENED SKY
Your enemies fight in the shade.
Prerequisites: Angry Hornet
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count when you're armed with a bow or thrown weapon you may accept a –5 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during that round you may take a full action to make 4 Standard Attacks with that weapon. If any of your attacks miss this round, you become flat-footed at the end of your current Initiative Count. You may not use this ability with weapons that have the load quality.

Note: The Load weapon-quality requires a number of rounds to reload the weapon before it can be used.

BULLSEYE
Dead center on the target. Dead center.
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count you may accept a penalty with your attack and skill checks of up to –4 to gain an equal insight bonus to ranged damage until the start of your next Initiative Count. If any of your attacks miss this round, you become flat-footed at the end of your current Initiative Count.

HURLED BASICS
Your hurled attacks always find their mark.
Requirements: Hurled forte
Benefit: Your Strength modifier is doubled when calculating thrown weapon damage. Also, you gain a stance.
Zen Shot (Stance): Your target's cover worsens by 2 grades (e.g. 1/2 cover becomes no cover). You may not move while in this stance (though you may still take Bonus 5-ft. Steps as normal).

HURLED MASTERY
Your control and accuracy of hurled attacks is almost supernatural.
Requirements: Hurled Basics
Benefit: When you wield a 1-handed thrown weapon it gains return and when you wield a 2-handed thrown weapon it gains AP 4.  Also, you gain a trick.
Staple (Thrown Weapon Attack Trick): With a hit, your target must take a Reflex save (DC 10 + your Dex modifier + the number of Ranged Combat feats you have) or become entangled for 1 round.

HURLED SUPREMACY
A high-pitched whistle is usually the last thing your targets hear.
Requirements: Hurled Mastery
Benefit: Once per round as a free action, you may Feint or Trip an opponent that you've hit with a thrown weapon this round. You suffer a –4 penalty with the Prestidigitation or Acrobatics check. Also, you gain a trick.
Ricochet (Thrown Weapon Attack Trick):  If you hit by 4 or more, you also inflict the weapon's damage on 1 adjacent character of your choice.

Unarmed Combat Feats

KICKING BASICS
Your foes better watch your hands and your feet.
Prerequisites: Unarmed forte
Benefit: You don't become flat-footed when you fail Trip attempts. Also, you gain a stance.
Shifting Footwork (Stance): When you make an unarmed attack, your target's Dodge bonuses decrease to 1/2 normal (rounded down). You may also move 5 ft. each time you hit an opponent with an unarmed attack.

KICKING MASTERY
In the ring, in the dojo, or on the street, you've always got the moves to finish the job.
Prerequisites: Kicking Basics
Benefit: Your unarmed attacks gain AP 2 and you gain a trick.
Guillotine Kick (Unarmed Attack Trick): If you hit by 4 or more, you inflict your unarmed damage one additional time (rolling damage separately for each). If the attack misses, you become sprawled. You may use this trick once per round.

KICKING SUPREMACY
Your fight-ending flourishes are spectacular.
Prerequisites: Kicking Mastery
Benefit: When you hit a single opponent with an unarmed attack and the square on the opposite side of your target is empty, you may immediately move into that square. Also, you gain a trick.
Hurricane Kick (Unarmed Attack Trick): You may make a single attack check against every adjacent character. Each target hit suffers 1/2 your unarmed damage (rounded up) and is pushed 5 ft. away from you (assuming there's an empty square behind them). You may use this trick as many times per combat as you have Unarmed Combat feats.

MARTIAL ARTS
You're a living weapon, delivering deadly blows with your bare hands.
Prerequisites: Unarmed forte
Benefit: Your unarmed attacks inflict 1d6 lethal damage with a threat range of 19–20. Also, you may choose one attribute, substituting that attribute's modifier in place of Dexterity when calculating Defense and Initiative, and in place of Strength when making unarmed attack and damage rolls.

MASTER'S ART
Your fighting skills are the stuff of legend.
Prerequisites: Martial Arts
Benefit: Your unarmed attacks inflict 1d10 lethal damage with a threat range of 18–20.

RAGE BASICS
The fury of a caged beast lurks within you.
Benefit: You gain a +2 morale bonus with Intimidate checks. Also, you gain a stance.
Berserk Stance (Stance): Your Strength and Constitution scores rise by 3 each. You may not make skill checks while in this stance (but you may still oppose them as normal). When you leave this stance you become fatigued.

RAGE MASTERY
Your frenzy is the stuff of nightmares.
Prerequisites: Rage Basics
Benefit: While in Berserk Stance you may make Intimidate checks and your Strength and Constitution scores rise by an additional 2 each (total 5 each).

RAGE SUPREMACY
Though tamed, your beast hasn't lost its bite.
Prerequisites: Rage Mastery
Benefit: You may make skill checks in Berserk Stance. Also, if you take a half action to change stance or return to normal stance, you don't become fatigued.

TWO-HIT COMBO
…and the hits just keep on coming!
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count you may accept a –2 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during that round you may take a half action to make 2 unarmed Standard Attacks.

WARRIOR'S GRACE
You fist-falls are an avalanche of pain.
Prerequisites: Two-Hit Combo
Benefit: At the start of your Initiative Count you may accept a –5 penalty with your attack and skill checks until the start of your next Initiative Count. Once during that round you may take a full action to make 4 unarmed Standard Attacks. If any of your attacks miss this round, you become flat-footed at the end of your current Initiative Count.

WRESTLING BASICS
You prefer to tackle opponents at close range.
Prerequisites: Unarmed forte
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to Defense against adjacent opponents. Also, you gain a stance.
Open Stance (Stance): Once per round when you have 2 hands free and an opponent misses you with a melee or unarmed attack, you may immediately Grapple or Trip him as a free action. You may not take move actions (though you may still take 5-ft. Bonus Steps as normal).

WRESTLING MASTERY
Bulk up, beat down!
Prerequisites: Wrestling Basics
Benefit: The lower of your Strength or Constitution scores rises by 1. Also, you gain a trick.
Clothesline (Unarmed Attack Trick): Your target must also make a Fortitude save (DC equal to the damage inflicted after DR and Resistances) or become sprawled.

WRESTLING SUPREMACY
Lights out!
Prerequisites: Wrestling Mastery
Benefit: You may Coup de Grace pinned characters and gain a trick.
Piledriver (Unarmed Trip Trick): With a hit you inflict double your unarmed damage and an equal amount of flash and bang damage. If the attack misses, you become sprawled. You may use this trick as many times per combat as you have Unarmed Combat feats.

WHEW... Okay these are just the combat feats - and not all of them (because many didn't make it into the core book and found their way into the first supplement The Adventurers Companion). Those Feats would almost double this number: they include more stuff for Two Weapon Fighting, Archery, Black Powder, Siege weaponry, and a whole bunch of other cool stuff.).

I'll get to the other non-Combat Feats in the next post. But I want everyone to get a good look at what we're dealing with here in terms of the sheer difference of magnitude in terms of mechanical strength. NONE of these Feats are class-restricted. So you could easily be a Mage and be a weapon master. Or a Soldier that not only is deadly with his family zweihander, is also a ridonkulously dangerous Martial Artist when bare-handed. You'll see Feats here that emulate "traditional" aspects of 3e classes - like the Rage Feats. If you wanted to make that 3x Barbarian - you merely take the Barbarian Specialty, pick the class you think is most appropriate and buy the Feat. Odds are you'll be better even at level 1 than most 3rd level 3.x characters (we'll put that to the test).

So small Feat trees, almost no "gate keeping feats" (in fact I don't know of any). And combined with the Trick and Stance subsystem - they add a huge mechanical punch over their D&D3.x and Pathfinder counterparts. Since there are no level restrictions (it's a GM prerogative thing - for instance I don't let anyone start with anything higher than Mastery) the fact that some Feat trees SYNERGIZE with other Feat Trees, (Greatsword Mastery allows you to use any Sword or Hammer Tricks and Stances for instance!) and scale based on the number of Combat Feats you posses creates further differentiation and effectiveness.

You can model practically any kind of combatant you can imagine with little effort AND without sacrificing your character concept. Want to be a mounted Lancer? No problem. Pick a couple of Feats and you're going to lose nothing since most of the important feats (Charge) are useful on foot too.

CHANCE FEATS

ADVENTURER’S LUCK
You’re every party’s best friend.
Benefit: Each time your party rolls for treasure you may roll twice, keeping both results.

ALL IN
Never tell me the odds!
Prerequisites: Special character only (i.e. PC's and important NPC's)
Benefit: You gain 1 Edge each time you roll a natural 20 on a skill check against an adversary. You may spend 4 Edge before making a skill check to increase both its threat and error ranges by 4.

Note: EdgeSpecial characters sometimes build momentum in combat, called Edge, and can use it to pull off special maneuvers as dictated by the Feat. Each special character may accumulate up to 5 Edge and all Edge is lost at the end of each combat. Edge may be spent to use certain exclusive tricks, actions, and abilities.

BLACK CAT
Strange and unfortunate accidents plague your enemies.
Benefit: Once per character per scene, as a free action, you may raise the target’s error ranges by 2 for the rest of the scene. You may use this ability a number of times per session equal to the number of Chance feats you have.

CLOSE CALL
That… That was a close one.
Prerequisites: Special character only
Benefit: You gain 1 Edge each time you spend an action die to boost a save. You may spend 3 Edge to automatically succeed with a failed save.

FORTUNATE
The odds are always in your favor.
Benefit: At the beginning of each session you gain a number of bonus d4 action dice equal to the number of Chance feats you have.

FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD
“I’ll take my chances” is your favorite strategy.
Benefit: When you roll an action die, the result increases by 2.

FORTUNE’S FOOL
Sometimes you snatch victory from the very jaws of defeat.
Benefit: Each time you suffer a critical failure you gain a bonus d4 action die. You may use this ability a number of times per session equal to the number of Chance feats you have.

JINX
You’re a walking disaster area — for your enemies.
Prerequisites: Black Cat
Benefit: While targeting a character with your Black Cat feat, you may activate his errors for 1 less action die (minimum 0).

LADY LUCK’S SMILE
If you’re consistently lucky, is it really luck?
Benefit: When you roll an action die, it explodes on its highest or second highest natural result (e.g. 5–6 on a d6, 9–10 on a d10, etc.).

LUCKY BREAK
One inch to the left and that would have been bad.
Prerequisites: Special character only
Bonus: You gain 2 Edge at the beginning of each scene. Once per round when an attack hits you by 1 or less, you may spend 1 Edge to cause the attack to miss.

TOUGH LUCK
Your enemies never catch a break.
Prerequisites: Jinx
Benefit: While targeted by your Black Cat feat, a character must spend 1 additional action die to activate each critical hit or success.


COVERT FEATS

AMBUSH BASICS
You frequently benefit from the element of surprise.
Benefit: You require only 2 rounds to make a Tactics/Ambush check. Also, your attacks inflict an additional die of sneak attack damage.

AMBUSH MASTERY
Your blows rattle opponents to their core.
Prerequisites: Ambush Basics
Benefit: You may convert damage without suffering the normal –4 attack penalty (see page 209). Also, when you inflict subdual damage on a flat-footed opponent, he doesn’t lose the flat-footed condition.

AMBUSH SUPREMACY
They never see you coming.
Prerequisites: Ambush Mastery
Benefit: If you take 10 minutes to make a Tactics/Ambush check, your threat range increases by 4. Also, your attacks inflict an additional die of sneak attack damage (total 2 dice).

FEROCITY BASICS
You always go for the kill.
Benefit: When rolling sneak attack damage, you inflict +1 damage per die.

FEROCITY MASTERY
That’s going to leave a mark!
Prerequisites: Ferocity Basics
Benefit: You gain a trick.
Crippling Strike (Attack Trick): Choose 1 of the target’s attributes. With a hit, the attack inflicts 1/2 damage and the opponent suffers a –4 penalty with attack and skill checks using the attribute for the rest of the scene. With a miss, you become flat-footed. Each character may suffer from only 1 successful Crippling Strike per scene.

FEROCITY SUPREMACY
You’re as ruthless as they come.
Prerequisites: Ferocity Mastery
Benefit: Once per round, you may take a half action to Coup de Grace a helpless character.

GARROTE BASICS
You turn a simple cord into a deadly weapon.
Prerequisites: Unarmed forte
Benefit: When you’re armed with a garrote, any opponent you pin immediately begins to suffocate. This continues until the pin is broken, you release them, or they die. Also, you gain a stance.
Wraith of the Battlefield (Stance): You gain a +4 bonus with Sneak checks made during combat.

GARROTE MASTERY
They may thrash and they may whimper but none of that will prevent the inevitable.
Prerequisites: Garrote Basics
Benefit: While armed with a garrote you gain a +4 gear bonus with unarmed Disarms. Also, you gain a grapple benefit.
Choke Out (Garrote Grapple Benefit): The target suffers 1 point of Strength impairment. This may not decrease the target’s Strength score to less than 6.

GARROTE SUPREMACY
Snap. Crackle. Pop!
Prerequisites: Garrote Mastery
Benefit: If you’re armed with a garrote you don’t become flat-footed when Grappling. Also, you gain a grapple benefit.
Neck Breaker (Garrote Grapple Benefit): If the target is a standard character with a lower Strength score than yours, he immediately fails his Damage save (damage isn’t rolled).

GHOST BASICS
You’re swift, silent, and difficult to pin down.
Benefit: Your Sneak check movement penalties decrease to 1/2 (rounded down). Also, you may move up to double your Speed while making a Hide check.

GHOST MASTERY
You use every available advantage when hiding.
Prerequisites: Ghost Basics
Benefit: Your Sneak check ambient light, noise, and scenery penalties decrease to 1/2 (rounded down). Also, you may make Hide checks without any apparent place to hide (e.g. in an open field with low grass, in a bare room, etc.).

GHOST SUPREMACY
You move like a specter, effortlessly slipping from shadow to shadow.
Prerequisites: Ghost Mastery
Benefit: Your Sneak check penalties for being blinded, deafened, or making an attack decrease to 1/2 (rounded down). Also, when you’re hidden and benefit from at least 1/2 scenery cover against an opponent, you’re considered invisible to that opponent.

MISDIRECTION BASICS
You keep even the most ferocious enemies off balance and off guard.
Benefit: Your threat range with attacks against special characters increases by 1. You also count as 3 additional characters when determining numerical advantage.

MISDIRECTION MASTERY
When you set someone up, they fall hard.
Prerequisites: Misdirection Basics
Benefit: Once per combat, you and each teammate may make a free attack against a single flat-footed special character. You may not take this action during a surprise round.

MISDIRECTION SUPREMACY
You never miss critical moments and always use them to maximum effect.
Prerequisites: Misdirection Mastery
Benefit: When you use your Misdirection Mastery feat, you and each teammate who hits may also choose one of the following benefits.

- Inflict 2 dice of sneak attack damage
- Recover 2d6 vitality
- Gain 1 bonus d6 action die

MOBILITY BASICS
You’re always in just the right place during combat.
Benefit: You may make turns freely during a Run and don’t become flat-footed afterward. Also, when you take a Total Defense action, you may take 2 Standard Move actions.

MOBILITY MASTERY
Duck and weave, duck and weave!
Prerequisites: Mobility Basics
Benefit: Each time you perform a Standard Move or Run, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to Defense until the start of your next Initiative Count.

MOBILITY SUPREMACY
They never see you coming, or leaving.
Prerequisites: Mobility Basics.
Benefit: Your base Speed increases by 10 ft.

I'm going to skip Skill and Gear Feats (there's a lot and they're all very useful depending on the kind of game you're running) - I want to stick to the meat-and-potatoes of Character Generation so we can actually make some characters for comparison. So on to Species Feats! These are where you get to create your Drow, Hill Dwarves or Sorcerer-blooded, Tieflingesque weirdo PC's that are now so common in D&D.

SPECIES FEATS

ABIDE IN DARKNESS
Your exposure to the roots of the world makes you resistant to lesser magic.
Prerequisites: Sorcery campaign quality, darkvision II NPC quality
Benefit: You gain Spell Defense equal to 10 + your Career Level + your starting action dice. This Spell Defense decreases by 4 in bright light and by 10 in intense light or direct sunlight (minimum 0).

Note: Campaign Qualities are campaign-wide setting "conditions". Like Savage Worlds Setting Edges.

AGILE FLYER
You’re most at home in the air.
Prerequisites: Winged flight
Benefit: You gain Acrobatics as an Origin skill and suffer no additional penalties when hovering.

ANGELIC HERITAGE
Divine forces have touched your family line, gifting you with fine features and unusual grace.
Prerequisites: Level 1 only
Benefit: The higher of your Wisdom or Charisma scores rises by 1, you gain Acid Resistance 5, and your Appearance bonus increases by +1. When taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Savior (Notice & Tactics). However, you’re also an Outsider (see page 227) and vulnerable to various effects and potentially higher damage from some sources.

ANGELIC LEGACY
Your unearthly heritage continues to shine through in your every word and deed. You may even embrace your heritage completely, becoming like an angel in form and speech.
Prerequisites: Human, Angelic Heritage
Benefit: The lower of your Wisdom or Charisma scores rises by 1, your Acid Resistance increases to 10, and you gain Cold Resistance 10.You may choose to grow feathered wings once, when you level, gaining winged flight 60 ft. If you do, your starting action dice decrease by 1 and you become uncomfortable telling falsehoods, suffering a –5
penalty with Bluff checks.

DEVILISH HERITAGE
Pacts with the wicked forces have indelibly stained your family tree.
Prerequisites: Level 1 only
Benefit: The higher of your Dexterity or Intelligence scores rises by 1 and you gain Fire Resistance 5 and gore II. When taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Deceiver (Bluff & Sneak). However, you’re also an Outsider and vulnerable to various effects and higher damage from some sources.

DEVILISH LEGACY
Your path may have been paved with good intentions but they’ve clearly been forsaken. Another step and you’ll reveal your dark destiny to all.
Prerequisites: Human, Devilish Heritage
Benefit: The lower of your Dexterity or Intelligence scores rises by 1, your Fire Resistance increases to 10, and you gain Electricity Resistance 10.
You may choose to grow bat wings once, when you level, gaining winged flight 60 ft. If you do, your starting action dice decrease by 1 and you grow less caring for the well-being of others, suffering a –5 penalty with Medicine checks.

DRACONIC HERITAGE
You’re a descendant of mighty dragons, feared and admired by all.
Prerequisites: Level 1 only
Benefit: You gain menacing threat and thick hide 3. When taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Conqueror (Impress & Tactics).

DRACONIC LEGACY
Your ancestry’s draconic promise manifests fully in you.
Requirements: Saurian or Human, Draconic Heritage
Benefit: The higher of your Strength or Intelligence scores increases by 1. You may also breathe fire and select feats as if you’re a Drake. You may choose to grow leathery
wings once, when you level, gaining winged flight 60 ft. If you do, your starting action dice decrease by 1 and you find it difficult to subdue your imperious nature, suffering a –5 penalty with Blend checks.

EASTERN HORDE
Unafraid of the dawning sun, the Skull Tribes can strike anywhere at any time.
Prerequisites: Goblin or Orc, Level 1 only
Benefit: Explorer is an iconic class for you. You lose light-sensitive and suffer exactly 1 point per subdual damage die when making a Push Limit check (damage isn’t rolled).

ELEMENTAL HERITAGE
Your ancestors were closely tied to the primal forces of the world.
Prerequisites: Level 1 only
Benefit: Choose an element.
- Crystal: Your unarmed and natural attacks gain bleed and you gain 2 Panache. However, you also gain Achilles heel (sonic).
- Darkness: You gain darkvision II, light-sensitive and a +4 bonus with Sneak checks.
- Dust/Sand: You gain Unarmed Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus
with Prestidigitation checks. However, your Charisma score
drops by 1.
- Earth: You gain DR 2/Blunt and sterner stuff (see page 234). However, your Speed decreases by 5 ft. (minimum 10 ft.).
- Fire: You gain Fire Resistance 5 and may convert your unarmed damage to fire damage without suffering the normal –4 attack penalty. However, you also gain Achilles heel (cold).
- Ice: You gain Cold Resistance 5 and may convert your unarmed damage to cold damage without suffering the normal –4 attack penalty. However, you also gain Achilles heel (fire).
- Lava: You gain Heat Resistance 5 and grueling combatant (see page 233). However, you also gain Achilles heel (cold).
- Light: You gain Divine Resistance 5 and night-blind (see page 234), and may convert your unarmed damage to flash damage without suffering the normal –4 attack penalty.
- Lightning: You gain Electrical Resistance 5 and may convert your unarmed damage to electrical damage without suffering the normal –4 attack penalty. However, you also suffer a –2 penalty with Will saves.
- Metal: You gain Edged Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus with Resolve checks. However, you also suffer a –2 penalty with Reflex saves.
- Mist/Smoke: You gain Ranged Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus with Blend checks. However, you also suffer a –2 penalty with Fortitude saves.
- Water: You gain Blunt Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus with Acrobatics checks. However, you also gain Achilles heel (electricity).
- Wind: You gain Falling Resistance 5 and your Speed increases by 5 ft. However, your Size is considered 1 category smaller during Bull Rushes, Grapples, and Trips.
- Wood: You gain DR 2/Edged and attribute impairment you suffer decreases by 1. However, you also gain Achilles heel (fire).

ELEMENTAL LEGACY
More and more you embrace your element, perhaps enough to feel your birth species slipping…
Prerequisites: Drake, Giant, or Human; ElementalHeritage
Benefit: Your highest attribute rises by 1 and your lowest attribute decreases by 1. Also, all numerical benefits of your Elemental Heritage feat (positive and negative) are doubled (i.e. if you have Elemental Heritage (Earth), your Damage Reduction becomes 4/Blunt and your Speed decreases by 10 ft. instead of 5 ft.).
You may choose to embrace your elemental nature once, when you level, gaining the Elemental Type (see page 226). If you do, your starting action dice decrease by 1 and you become easier to spot unless trying to hide, suffering a –5 penalty with Blend checks.

FAERIE HERITAGE
The wilds have touched your soul and may one day claim it as their own…
Prerequisites: Non-fey, Level 1 only
Benefit: The higher of your Dexterity or Charisma scores rises by 1 and the DCs of Sense Motive checks targeting you increase by 4. You always have enough food and water for yourself, so long as you’re located within 10 miles of nature. Also, when taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Eldritch (Impress & Sneak). However, you’re also a Fey (see page 226) and vulnerable to various effects and potentially higher damage from some sources.

FAERIE LEGACY
It seemed a dream when you dined in the courts of Underhill and tasted the nectar of the fair folk — but dream or no, it has marked you forever.
Prerequisites: Human or Pech, Faerie Heritage
Benefit: The higher of your Dexterity or Charisma scores rises by an additional 1 and the DCs of Sense Motive checks targeting you increase by an additional 6 (for a total increase of 10).You may choose to grow shimmering insect-like wings once, when you level, gaining winged flight 60 ft. If you do, your starting action dice decrease by 1 and you find it hard to fathom the motivations of others, suffering a –5 penalty with Sense Motive checks.

FAST FLYER
You dart through the air with effortless ease.
Prerequisites: Winged flight
Benefit: Your winged flight Speed increases by 50 ft. and you gain a +1 dodge bonus to Defense while flying.

FARSTRIDE FOLK
Like the first rays of morning, you fearlessly fling yourself toward the unknown.
Prerequisites: Pech, Level 1 only
Benefit: You gain Stress Resistance 4 and are considered to have 2 additional Chance feats (you don’t gain these feats but they’re counted when the number of Chance feats you have is used). However, at the start of each session, the GM gains 1 extra action die that may only be spent to activate an error you suffer when making an attack or skill check.

FIRE BRAVE
You’re among the rarest breed of ogre: the oni, the shape-shifting spawn of demons.
Prerequisites: Ogre, Level 1 only, Charisma 13+
Benefit: You gain Fire Resistance 10 and ignore Species penalties with Disguise checks. You also lose reviled and gain gore I

FIRE ELDER
Your diabolical heritage fully permeates your being, warping your body and granting you mastery of arcane power.
Prerequisites: Spellcasting 1+ ranks, Fire Brave
Benefit: You become an Outsider with Spell Defense equal to your Intimidate (Str) bonus. Your Intelligence score rises by 2 but your Constitution score drops by 2. Each
time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Intimidate skill, you also gain an equal number of ranks in the Spellcasting skill. This may not increase your Spellcasting skill beyond its maximum rank.

FLOATER
Your design includes the ability to hover.
Prerequisites: Unborn, Level 1 only
Benefit: You lose fatal falls and gain flight 20 ft., though you may rise no higher than 20 ft. above the ground.
Special: When you gain this feat you may reduce any of your attributes by 2 to gain an additional Species feat with the requirement “Level 1 only.”

GREATER BREATH
Your breath lays waste to huge swaths of territory.
Prerequisites: Drake
Benefit: Your breath weapon becomes a 40-ft. line, 20-ft. cone, or 15-ft. sphere (your choice).

GREAT HORDE
The Blood Tribe stands at the center — the very heart — of the Black Blood armies.
Prerequisites: Goblin or Orc, Level 1 only
Benefit: Captain is an iconic class for you. You also gain Stress Resistance 4 and 25 Reputation that must immediately be spent to create or improve a Goblin or Orc contact. This contact doesn’t count against the maximum number of Prizes you may keep.

GUTS
You can push yourself harder than most and shake offincredible damage.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus with Push Limit checks and suffer only 1/2 the normal penalty to Strength and Dexterity when fatigued. Also, when you Cheat Death, you may return to play at the start of the next scene.

HART NATION
The wood elves of the Hart Nations are perhaps the most outgoing and best known of the elven peoples.
Prerequisites: Elf, Level 1 only
Benefit: Captain becomes an iconic class for you and Adventurer, Rogue, Tribesman, and Warden become iconic specialties for you. Your Dexterity score rises by 2 but your
Intelligence score drops by 2.

HART NOBLE
Patrolling the edge of their lands, Hart archers know best how to make intruders feel unwelcome.
Prerequisites: Bow forte, Hart Nation
Benefit: You include your Ranged Combat and Species feats in the number of Covert feats you have (when that number is used). You also gain a trick.
Flustering Shot (Bow Attack Trick): The target must also resist a Distract action with the attack result as the DC.

HIDDEN PROMISE
You’re destined for great things.
Prerequisites: Level 1 only
Benefit: Your lowest attribute rises by 2 (your choice in the case of a tie).

HILL-BORN
Not every stone is buried deep in the Earth; Hill-Born dwarves dwell above-ground, making them the most approachable of their kind, both physically and socially.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Level 1 only
Benefit: Explorer is an iconic class for you. You suffer exactly 1 point per subdual damage die when making a Push Limit check (damage isn’t rolled). Also, when taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Hill-Dwarf (Haggle & Ride).

HILL-CLAN
You’ve shared meals and conversations in many exotic lands.
Prerequisites: Hill-Born
Benefit: You gain 2 additional Languages and 25 Reputation that must immediately be spent to create or improve a contact.

JUNGLE CLUTCH
The khamai are secretive tree-dwellers with a luminescent hide that changes color to match their surroundings.
Requirements: Saurian, Level 1 only
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus with Climb checks and are always considered to have climber’s gear. Also, you may temporarily gain chameleon I as a 1 minute action, matching the surrounding terrain (see page 231). This camouflage is lost when you sleep or replace it with a new terrain.

JUNGLE CREST
As a khamai ages, his body adapts into that of a deadly hunter, with huge rotating eyes and a long and sticky tongue he can use to snare prey.
Requirements: Jungle Clutch
Benefit: You may no longer be flanked and your Reach when Handling Items and Grappling increases by 2.

LAVA-BORN
You hail from the fiery depths of the world, where the stones glow with the heat of the First Dwarf’s forge.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Level 1 only
Benefit: Explorer is an iconic class for you. You gain Fire and Heat Resistance 5 and each time you inflict lethal damage with an unarmed or melee attack you may convert it to heat damage without suffering the normal –4 attack penalty.

LAVA-CLAN
Flowing rivers of molten stone surround your home. Sometimes, they entrust you with their secrets.
Prerequisites: Lava-Born
Benefit: Your Speed increases by 5 ft. and you gain a +1 bonus to Defense. Also, when you spend an action die to boost unarmed or melee damage, you may convert it to fire damage.

LORE OF THE STARS
You know the secret magic of every star in the heavens.
Prerequisites: Elf, sorcery campaign quality
Benefit: Mage is an iconic class for you and you may substitute your Wisdom bonus in place of your Intelligence bonus when making a Spellcasting check. You may make this substitution a number of times per scene equal to your starting action dice.

MAKE ME A STONE
This simple prayer means endurance in your culture and it was chanted at your birth.
Prerequisites: Dwarf
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus with saving throws made during a Dramatic scene and may recover vitality points and wounds during a Refresh action even if attacked before rolling your action

MANY-ARMED
You have multiple arms and the coordination to use them.
Prerequisites: Rootwalker or Unborn, Level 1 only
Benefit: You may simultaneously hold and arm up to six 1-handed, four 1-handed and one 2-handed, or two 1-handed and two 2-handed weapons or objects. Also, each round that you hold no more than this, you may Handle an Iem as a free action. You also gain a +1 bonus with skill checks made as part of a Grapple action per two of your hands that are free (maximum +3).
Special: When you gain this feat you may reduce any of your attributes by 2 to gain an additional Species feat with the requirement “Level 1 only.”

MANY-LEGGED
You have multiple legs.
Prerequisites: Rootwalker or Unborn, Level 1 only
Benefits: You have more than 2 legs and gain improved stability and kick II.
Special: When you gain this feat you may reduce any of your attributes by 2 to gain an additional Species feat with the requirement “Level 1 only.”

MIGHTY BREATH
Your breath weapon is exceptionally deadly.
Prerequisites: Greater Breath
Benefit: Your Constitution score rises by 1 and your breath weapon inflicts an additional 1d6 damage.

NATIVE FEROCITY
You use your natural weapons to deadly effect.
Prerequisite: At least 1 natural attack
Benefit: Each of your natural attacks improves by 1 grade (i.e. gore III becomes gore IV). You may also activate critical hits with natural attacks for 1 less action die (minimum 0) a number of times per combat equal to your starting action dice.

NEW LEAF
You’re a rar

Updated the Feats list... Species feats should be given a good lookover.

Quote from: tenbones;1142586Updated the Feats list... Species feats should be given a good lookover.

Thank you for this thread.

The featapalooza on display has been of great help to remind me never to buy or play any of these systems.

That being said - the audience must be there for this kind of stuff.

PF2 is still catering to this market. And 3.5 is still being played; probably more than any single OSR game.

A further bit of evidence that my personal preferences are utterly irrelevant to the greater RPG hobby/market.

Quote from: Jaeger;1142861Thank you for this thread.

The featapalooza on display has been of great help to remind me never to buy or play any of these systems.

That being said - the audience must be there for this kind of stuff.

PF2 is still catering to this market. And 3.5 is still being played; probably more than any single OSR game.

A further bit of evidence that my personal preferences are utterly irrelevant to the greater RPG hobby/market.

I don't consider 3.x of any stripe "OSR".

As for personal tastes? Yep. Personal. I don't play 3.x at all. But I think there is something very useful to learn from the design. I'd even argue the elements that lead to the crazy bloat that 3.x became, were already there in D&D2e - even 1e, and I'd cite Oriental Adventures Martial Arts system and later 2e's Skills and Powers as the precursor. Fantasy Craft to me is the apotheosis of that design in terms of trying to actually do what it set out to do with rigor.

But if you squint closely - a lot of that design strategy of having beefy abilities, call them Feats, call them Edges, call them Talents whatever - has proliferated throughout game design. The key is learning from the design and paring away what works and what doesn't.

There is *always* room for minimalist design ala OSR. For those that want more mechanical rigor - there is a gigantic gap in terms of what's out there and where OSR-style ends. That's the playground where I dwell. Lots to see, many flowers to smell in that garden.

I think Fantasy Craft could hugely inform the design of a new edition of D&D... or something adjacent to it. Lighter, meaner, with all the beef and none of the crappy filler but all D&D.

I started with 3.5 so I am a bit blind to the rules bloat, I guess. I think if anything the mistake is having both skill points and feats. Pick one or the other IMO, especially given how many skills exist in the 3.X/PF rules.

Quote from: Cigalazade;1142883I started with 3.5 so I am a bit blind to the rules bloat, I guess. I think if anything the mistake is having both skill points and feats. Pick one or the other IMO, especially given how many skills exist in the 3.X/PF rules.

In terms of design in 3.x - Skills and Feats serve different purposes.

I should be clear here on my opinion of Feats. Ultimately Feats *should* be the non-caster stand-in for "spells", but only insofar as they are not overtly "magic". This does not mean they can't replicate some mechanical effects - Fireballs do DAMAGE. Swords do DAMAGE for instance. We're not saying having a Feat that does 1d6 per level of Slashing Damage is the way to go or anything, and it would be a bit lazy in design, but the entirety of the combat system is wide open to tinker with to create the ultimate effect for which direct-damage is intended: to end fights.

Spellcasters are under no such limitation because "magic" is used for all sorts of silly stuff. But direct damage? In actuality is probably the least effective way of ending fights - which only further places the spotlight on the lack of mechanical power on the non-casters comparatively. There are spells in 3.x that can end fights immediately with a simple failed-save, which casters *can* stack their PC's to for. Coupled with the sheer variety of spells and exception-based mechanic effects of magic and the fact that by design spells *scale* with level, which Feats do not, creates some huge mechanical shifts between certain classes in terms of relative power.

This is what has lead to the "Linear Fighter/Quadratic Mage" problem.

If the purpose is to close that gap in 3.x or any other system, then I don't think it's worthwhile to having a skill-system that replicates these kinds of scaling power-levels in a class-based system. Could it be done? Sure. But I believe it's at cross-purposes of design.

Savage Worlds is a good example of a system that is not class-based but leans heavily on it's Feats (Edges) doing the heavy mechanical lifting while maintaining a spellcasting system that scales on the same lines.

Fantasy Craft Feats Part II

Style Feats

COMELY
You always turn heads.
Benefit: Your Charisma score rises by 1. You also gain a +2 bonus with Impress checks but suffer a –2 penalty with Blend and Disguise checks.

ELEGANT
Your appeal is timeless.
Prerequisites: Comely
Benefit: Your Appearance bonus increases by +1 and your Comely bonus and penalty increase to 3 each.

ENCHANTING
No one forgets your face.
Prerequisites: Elegant
Benefit: Your Charisma score rises by 1 more (total +2) and your Comely bonus and penalty increase to 4 each.

EXTRA CONTACT
It's all about who you know...
Prerequisites: Player character only
Benefit: You gain an additional contact with a Reputation value of 50 or less who doesn't count against the number of Prizes you may keep.
Special: You may not gain this as a temporary feat.

Note: an optional system in the game is the use of Prizes - which we'll cover in Gear. Basically in this system you only keep the special gear and loot you get in an adventure by claiming it as a Prize (you have a limited number of slots. The rest is assumed to be frittered away partying your ass off between adventures. This mechanic was keep gear-bloat from occurring and to remove itemization-as-balance from the game purely by mechanics. Most good GM's don't require this, but for those new to the system it has its uses.

EXTRA HOLDING
...and where you live. That too.
Prerequisites: Player character only
Benefit: You gain an additional holding with a Reputation value of 30 or less that doesn't count against the number of Prizes you may keep.
Special: You may not gain this as a temporary feat.

GLINT OF MADNESS
There's something deeply disturbing about you. Maybe it's the growling. Or the frothing.
Benefit: You inflict 1d10 stress damage when you Threaten an opponent. Also, once per round when one of your attacks renders an opponent unconscious or dead, you may immediately Threaten another opponent as a free action.

MARK
You can size anyone up at a glance.
Benefit: Once per character per scene, as a free action, you may learn the total bonuses of 3 skills belonging to a character in your line of sight.

PERSONAL LIEUTENANT
Someone's always got your back.
Perquisites: Player character only
Benefit: You control a non-animal NPC with an XP value no greater than 50 + 5 × the permanent Style feats you have. You may choose your lieutenant from the Rogues Gallery or Bestiary or build an original NPC with GM approval. Your lieutenant may not possess temporary feats. Your lieutenant is a special character with a Threat Level equal to your Career Level minus 4 (minimum 1). He gains no
action dice but you may spend your action dice on his behalf. Your lieutenant may not control additional characters.If your lieutenant dies or is dismissed, you lose Reputation equal to your Career Level (he's replaced in the following adventure).
Special: You may not gain this feat as a temporary feat.

REPARTEE BASICS
You navigate intricate social webs with hollow promises and sincere lies.
Benefit: The error ranges of Sense Motive checks targeting you increase by your Charisma modifier (minimum +1). You also gain a trick.
Silver Tongue (Distract Trick): Your target's Wisdom score also drops by 1 until the end of the scene (minimum 6). You may use this trick a number of times per scene equal to the number
of Style feats you have.

REPARTEE MASTERY
You can demolish pride and confidence with a few well-chosen words.
Prerequisites: Repartee Basics
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus with Bluff Checks and a trick.
Painful Secrets (Threaten Trick): Your target also loses the ability to spend action dice for a number of rounds equal to the number of Style feats you have.

REPARTEE SUPREMACY
Your soul-piercing declarations stop people dead in their tracks.
Prerequisites: Repartee Mastery
Benefit: Your Lifestyle rises by 1 and you gain a trick.
Staggering Pronouncement (Distract Trick): Also, your target may not take attack actions until he's attacked or the scene ends. You may use this trick once per scene.

Comments: I *cannot* underscore how dangerous social skills are in this game especially with certain classes. Fantasy Craft has done a rock-solid job for those players that don't care much about fighting, or spellcasting and just want to get by purely on their wits. Played well, you'll rarely have to draw a blade - you can prevent/create conflicts before they can begin naturally. There is no equivalent in D&D that approaches Fantasy Craft's design in this regard. Stress damage is real and every bit as dangerous as a blade in the right circumstances. And FC's social classes (Courtier for example) is superb at exemplifying this kind of play.

TERRAIN FEATS
Good for Scouts? Naturally. Good for *any* PC that wants some environmental advantages and have outdoor-skills. Also many of these Feats are powerful when used for Party support. It adds deeper flavor for such characters that "plan things".

ANIMAL PARTNER
He followed you home and now he's going to keep you.
Perquisites: Player character only
Benefit: You control an animal NPC with an XP value no greater than 50 + 5 × the permanent Terrain feats you have. You may choose your partner from the Bestiary or build an original NPC with GM approval. Your partner may not possess temporary feats. Your partner is a special character with a Threat Level equal to your Career Level minus 4 (minimum 1). It gains no action dice but you may spend your action dice on its behalf. Your partner may not control additional characters.If your partner dies or is dismissed, you lose Reputation equal to your Career Level (he's replaced in the following adventure).
Special: You may not gain this feat as a temporary feat.

BATTLEFIELD TRICKERY
You use simple traps to disable your foes.
Benefit: When you successfully Ambush one or more characters, you may choose a number of them up to the number of Terrain feats you have. Each target chosen suffers the effects of a successful Cheap Shot trick (no attack is made and no damage is rolled).

Note: Ambush is an action that takes 1-minute to set up. The roll for an Ambush check is not made when the ambush is prepared, but rather when it's sprung. With success against a target character or group's Notice, Search, or Sense Motive (as appropriate), a surprise round happens with the targets unaware of your party. With a critical success, each member of your party also gains 1d6 sneak attack damage per action die spent. This sneak attack damage applies only during the surprise round. With a critical failure, each member of your party suffers an Initiative penalty of –2 per action die spent.

Note II: Cheap Shot Trick - The character attempts to exploit an opponent's obvious weakness. He chooses 1 of the opponent's attributes or the opponent's Speed and makes his attack check, suffering a =4 penalty. With a hit, the opponent suffers a –2 penalty with all attack and skill checks using the chosen attribute, or a –10 ft. penalty to his Speed, until the end of the scene. With a miss, the character becomes flat-footed. Each combatant may suffer from only 1 successful Cheap Shot per scene.

BUSHWHACK BASICS
You like to start fights with a little something special.
Benefit: When you have a 2-to-1 or better advantage, your Ambush effects last 3 rounds (beyond the surprise round).

BUSHWHACK MASTERY
You dominate attention during brawls.
Prerequisites: Bushwhack Basics
Benefit: Once per round when you have a 2-to-1 or better advantage, you may Taunt or Distract an opponent as a free action.

BUSHWHACK SUPREMACY
You keep the enemy bunched up and pinned down.
Prerequisites: Bushwhack Mastery
Benefit: When you have a 2-to-1 or better advantage, the Speed of each opponent within your line of sight drops to 1/2 normal (rounded up).

COORDINATED ATTACK
Your guidance dramatically improves your teammates' combat prowess.
Benefit: Once per round as a full action, you may direct a teammate who can see and hear you to make an immediate Standard Attack.

COORDINATED MOVE
Your complex synchronized assaults are devastating.
Prerequisite: Coordinated Attack
Benefit: Once per round as a full action, you may direct a teammate who can see and hear you to make an immediate Feint, Reposition, or Standard Move.

COORDINATED STRIKE
You direct battles like a conductor directs a beautiful orchestra.
Prerequisite: Coordinated Move
Benefit: Once per round as a full action, you may direct up to 2 teammates who can see and hear you to each make an immediate Standard Attack or Standard Move.

THE EXTRA MILE
You go to extreme lengths to make sure everyone comes back alive.
Benefit: Once per adventure, you may choose a single teammate who has died during a standard scene. If you have the teammate's body at the end of the scene, he Cheats Death with a Petty fate.

Note: Cheating death is a get out of jail card if your character should technically be dead. There is a table you can roll on, or you can get maimed or something - there should be something memorable and mechanical to the effect.

HORDE BASICS
You overwhelm enemies with sheer numbers.
Benefit: You and each teammate gain 1/4 personal cover when you have a 2-to-1 advantage, and 1/2 personal cover when you have a 3-to-1 or greater advantage.

HORDE MASTERY
You drive enemies before you and crush them beneath your allies' heels.
Prerequisites: Horde Basics
Benefit: Once per round when you have a 2-to-1 or greater advantage, you and each teammate may Pummel as a half action.

HORDE SUPREMACY
When you show up in force, you show up in force!
Prerequisites: Horde Mastery
Benefit: When you have a 2-to-1 or greater advantage, you and each teammate gain a +3 morale bonus to Close Quarters attack damage.

NIGHT FIGHTING
Vision isn't your most critical sense.
Benefit: Unless deafened, you ignore the blinded condition when targeting any character within 20 ft. You also gain darkvision I.

PATHFINDER BASICS
You exploit the environment to great advantage.
Benefit: Choose a terrain, gaining the following benefits.
Also, you may always act during surprise rounds and your Travel Speed increases by 2 MPH while in this terrain.
- Aquatic: You may hold your breath twice as long and you gain a +2 bonus with Swim checks.
- Arctic: You gain Cold Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus with Balance checks.
- Caverns/Mountains: You gain Falling Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus with Climb checks.
- Desert: You gain Heat Resistance 5 and you require 1/2 your normal fluids.
- Forest/Jungle: You gain a +2 bonus with Sneak checks.
- Indoors/Settled: You gain Sneak Attack Resistance 5.
- Plains: You gain a +2 bonus with Notice checks.
- Swamp: You gain Poison Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus with saves against disease.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, choosing a different terrain each time. Each feat has a separate name (e.g. Pathfinder (Aquatic), Pathfinder (Plains), etc.).

PATHFINDER MASTERY
You're one with your chosen environment, surviving there even against all odds.
Requirements: Pathfinder Basics
Benefit: When in one of your Pathfinder terrains, you gain a +4 gear bonus with Blend and Survival checks, and a +2 gear bonus with saves.

PATHFINDER SUPREMACY
You're the master of your domain.
Requirements: Pathfinder Mastery
Benefit: All numerical benefits of your Pathfinder feats are doubled (i.e. if you have Pathfinder (Swamp), your Poison Resistance becomes 10 and your bonus with Swim checks becomes +4).

Okay so that's most of the Feats - outside of Spellcasting specific ones which we'll cover with when we get to spellcasting.

My thoughts are we toss a few basic characters up for examination from the basic classes that have cross-edition analogs. Then we'll look at the magical classes. Then we'll look at the non-analog classes.

So I'll write up a couple of basic characters and translate them to each edition at 1st level, 6th level and 10th level. We'll look at what they're capable of and how they operate in a white-room environment.

My first archetype will be a Spartan. He's going to be a Fighter-type, skilled with spear and shield as his primary mode of combat. I'll also do a Barbarian warrior. He's going to be a "classic" big-axe wielder.

I'm open to suggestions on Thief concepts, or anything else that might be of interest. Let's keep backgrounds basic.

More to come.

Just snagged a copy for $20 from Noble Knight. It doesn't get any lower than that.

Quote from: Aglondir;1143125Just snagged a copy for $20 from Noble Knight. It doesn't get any lower than that.

that is a superb price!

D&D 3.5 Level 1 Fighter
He's designed to represent a Spartan-esque type of Fighter. Which to me means a highly trained warrior that fights with a Shield and Spear, and excels particularly in when fighting in an organized fashion with others. Let's not pretend here - I'm going to build him so he can fight with a Shield and Spear first, group benefits if I can afford it. I'm going to exclude extraneous stuff just to keep it to the meat. We can dicker about the other stuff later. Gear on him comes from the starting template with mild adjustments without going over any assumed starting money budget.

For sake of argument and in order to keep all the systems aligned by comparison - I'm going to use whichever offers the most optional static method. In this case I'm using (Powerful Array) based on 3.5's optional rules:

This consists of: 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11

Tychidas 1st Level Human Fighter

Str:16 +3
Dex:14 +2
Con: 15 +2
Int: 13 +1
Wis: 11
Cha: 12 +1

HP: 12
AC: 18 (19 with Dodge)
Skills - Climb 7, Intimidate 5, Ride 3, Swim 4, Jump 4, Move Silently 4, Listen 2, Survival 3,
Feats: Weapon Focus: Shortspear, Improved Shield Bash, Dodge

Equipment: Scale Mail, Light Steel Shield (1d3), Short Spear

Basic Attack: Short Spear +4 to hit, (1d6+3 damage against a Medium creature).

Notes: So I'm already annoyed. Shield-bashing would incur huge penalties. Immediately I'm at odds with the concet: I'm forced to use a Short-Spear *because* it's 1-handed and the only 1-handed spear in the game. The mechanics of a short-spear in no-way approximate the Spartan Dory - which was longer (9-feet) and designed as a reach-weapon. But by the rules, this is what I'm left with. Further the bizarre mechanical penalties for using a Spear and Shield, one of the most ancient forms of martial combat in history, are positively dreadful. I'm forced to use a Light shield, for the simple fact that shield-bashing with a heavier shield would make using both virtually impossible. Likewise I can't pick up the Two-Weapon Fighting feat because the Stat requirement is a Dex 15! which I won't be able to buy until my first stat-upgrade at 4th level and raise my Dex to 15! Which seems intensely high for being able to do what is traditionally taught to any men-at-arms fighting in formation. As it stands right out of the gate, I can't do that at all. I'm stuck with a tiny spear doing tiny-damage.


Pathfinder Level 1 Fighter

So with Pathfinder I'm using their Epic Fantasy method of stat-generation. 25-points total. Ironically - this gives you slightly LOWER stats than the Powerful build of D&D 3.5. This is made up for by your racial bonuses. In this case: Humans get +2 to any single stat. For the purposes of getting closer to the concept of a Spartan, I'm going to put this in Dex so I can actually wield my shield like a weapon and get access to Feats that will quickest exemplify the kind of play I want from my concept.

Tychidas

Str:16 +3
Dex:16 +3
Con: 15 +2
Int: 12 +1
Wis: 10
Cha: 11

HP: 12
AC: 20
Skills - Climb 1(6), Intimidate (3), Survival 1 (3), Swim 1 (6),
Feats: Weapon Focus: Shortspear, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield-Bash

Equipment: Chain Mail, Light Steel Shield (1d3), Short Spear

Basic Attack: Short Spear +4 to hit, (1d6+3 damage against a Medium creature). Optional routing - Short-spear attack +2 to hit/Shield-Bash +0 (1d3+3).

Notes: Okay so here I'm able to afford better gear, but more importantly I'm able to reliably get a shield-bash to fit my Spartan concept. But Pathfinder teases me yet further - they have a Spear which is shorter than a Longspear, but longer than a Short-spear. And it has all the stats I'd probably give a Spartan Dory... except they made it TWO-HANDED. So once again... I'm stuck using a fucking limp-dick Short-spear. It's closer... but still not what I'd want starting out of the chute, and if I wanted to make another kind of Fighter, I'd be more dangerous than this using a two-handed weapon, or hell, any other d8 1-handed weapon than a short-spear.



Fantasy Craft Level 1 Soldier

Fantasy Craft gives you 36-points to build your character. All stats start at 10. Because Fantasy Craft's stats have intrinsically more meaning - they're pound-for-pound spread out in terms of their downstream impact, that you aren't required (nor is it desirable) to frontload your stats in obvious places that you do in D&D/Pathfinder. A lot of thought can be given towards how you want to express your character via Feats and the stats that support those Feats (since most Feats in Fantasy Craft are not locked by stat-prerequisites).

I'm including the values here. Point cost in brackets.

Tychidus

Str:18 +4 (14) Modified +2 by Talent: Strong below.
Dex:14 +2 (8)
Con: 15 +2 (8) Modified +1 by Specialty: Fighter below.
Int: 12 +1 (4)
Wis: 10  (2)
Cha: 10 (2)

Vitality: 14
Wounds: 15

Defense 17
Damage Resistance: 2/4

Race: Human
Talent: Strong - +2 Strength, Double Boost for Action Dice (roll 2 for any Strength based checks), 1-Size larger for carrying, Trample and resisting Bull Rush or Trip attempts. Gain the Shove Trick

Specialty: Shield-Bearer. Bonus Feat Shield Basics Agile Defense +1, Melee Combat Expert (+2 for any ability calculating number of Melee Combat Feats), Practiced Resolve (Spend Resolve check Action die and get die back if the check fails), Shield Block Trick (If Shield is ready, any unarmed or melee attack as an action can reduce damage to ZERO on a Fortitude save vs. Attack value). Can make an umber of blocks equal to number of Melee Combat feats (so 4)

Skills - Athletics 2 (4), Intimidate 1, Survival 2, Notice 1(1), Tactics 3(1)

Core Class Ability- Accurate: Your finely honed physique is your deadliest weapon. Each time you spend 1 action die to boost an attack check, you roll and add the results of 2 dice.

Action Dice - d4 (3)

Forte: Edged, Blunt

Feats-
Shield Basics (+4 bonus to Bull Rush with Shield) Phalanx Fighting Stance (+1 Defense and Reflex saves to all adjacent Allies. Increases to +2 with weapon that has Guard feature. This stacks with other players up to maximum of +4).

Shield Mastery - Decrease Armor Piercing and Keen qualities by number of Melee Combat Feats possessed (4). Gain Shield Slam Trick (Shield bash attacks force save vs. damage or be stunned for 1 round).

Spear Basics - Wielding 1-handed spear increases reach by 1. Wielding 2-h spear gains the Bleed effect. Gain the Stance: Monkey Grip (May wield a single 2h melee weapon with 1 hand.)

Armor: Chainmail 2DR (4DR vs Edged)
Shield: Metal Shield (1d4 damage, Guard +2)

Weapon -
Boar Spear -  +6 to hit, 1d8, Guard +1, Reach +1 2h Bleed w/Spear Basics

Notes: Okay so this might seem like a lot of stuff - it is. But in play this is how it works...

Fantasy Craft have slightly lower "AC" values than D&D (Defense). Here because I made Tychidus a Spartan - I chose the Strong Talent (totally arbitrary - I was thinking of a couple of other possibilities, but I figured let's make him big and strong. Shield-Bearer Specialty - obviously, as it's for Shield-using cultures. The Solider Class has a starting Defense of +1 but I pick up Defense from Dexterity +3, and my shield + Boar Spear guard qualities. So nearly comparable.

But I also get DR of 2 for the Chainmail, and 4 vs. Edged attacks.

But! I can also voluntarily make a Shield Parry against any successful attacks as an Action (up to 4 times) with a Fortitude save vs. attack value. Let's get on to the offensive capabilities...

My goal is to have a Spartan - Shield and Spear. That means I want to stab and bash (and protect myself and others). In Fantasy Craft everyone gets 1-action. Attacks are half-actions. You can attack twice, or once and use your remaining half-action for other things. This bypasses the "attack matrix" of D&D3.5/Pathfinder where everything incurs penalties "because" you're trying to do something we don't want you to do without taxing you.

In Fantasy Craft you *can* get a Two-Weapon Fighting Style. All it means is you've learned to attack multiple times in 1-half action with ONE weapon. This is where you'll see those familiar penalties you see in D&D3.5 but they're more easily mitigated. This is where you are choosing to learn how to fight in a specific style, rather than simply being good at using what you have. In this Spear-and-Shield setup I'm using - not only can I use a very effective non-light weapon, in this case I chose the Boar Spear (because it gives you +1 Guard and +1 Reach - and yes it's TWO-HANDED - but because I have Spear Basics, I can use a single two-handed weapon in one-hand! This frees me up to go Shield-Bash-Wild with my Shield. PLUS because the Boar Spear has Read 1 - I get an additional +1 Reach because of Spear Basics and Bleed... And let's not forget a Boar Spear does 1d8.

I could also use a Pike... and that Reach would be 4...

All this without penalties - AND without mechanical sacrifice for the concept. Then I can do all my Shield tricks too - where I can parry attacks actively, shield adjacent allies passively, shield-bash and potentially stun enemies, Bull-rush with BIG bonuses, using my shield.

This immediately passes my basic-level of the Spartan Test.

All at 1st level. And it only gets better from there as I level up.

Quote from: tenbones;1143471and yes it's TWO-HANDED - but because I have Spear Basics, I can use a single two-handed weapon in one-hand!

True for the most part, but remember it's a stance.

Stances give you specific bonuses and sometimes special effects, and you can essentially toggle them. By default, you're considered in "normal" stance - no bonuses or penalties, and you can always go back to normal stance as a FREE action. Assuming any other stance is a half-action. And having certain conditions inflicted on you can also knock you back into normal stance - being knocked prone, for example.

Monkey grip is a stance, and it's totally okay to say that you're in this stance unless stated otherwise. But since Phalanx Fighting is also a stance, you have to pick one or the other at any given time. It would probably be a good idea to have a backup weapon to use without penalty for times that you would prefer(or need) to be in Phalanx.

But yes, it's a very nice build. You have some really cool things you can do that are both thematically appropriate and mechanically supportive of the style of combat you want to engage in.

Stipulated!

Yeah you have to pick and choose. But that's exactly what I want - options. Of course it only gets better - this is only 1st level. The sad truth of Pathfinder and D&D3e is that it only gets comparatively worse.

Feat taxes kill the non-caster classes. They're lackluster, don't really give you mechanical combat options - quite the opposite, you're forced into one style of play with relatively weak results. But we'll see this together.

Definitely liking the Fantasy Craft version of the Spartan more than D&D or PF. D&D shields just suck spectacularly and they treat the spear like trash, when in reality the spear is one of the most effective melee weapons there is, which is one of the they were used so broadly historically. FC also seems to give you a lot of extra feats through your Specialty, which helps bridge the gap for this concept by awarding you all the basic abilities you need to fulfill that role, kinda like a AD&D 2e kit on steroids.

Some this stuff still goes over my head a bit, though, cuz FC includes a lot of unique elements I don't know how they work in this game, such as Reach, or the Armor Piercing and Keen qualities mentioned in the Shield Mastery feat description.

I'm also not sure how using a spear one handed would improve reach, since you would need to hold it around the middle to wield it effectively, but using it two-handed gives you greater control of length IRL. You can even use the whole length of the weapon when making thrusting maneuvers two-handed if you skewer the shaft and push it forward with your back hand while holding the pole near the end.

I'm also not sure how holding it two-handed gives you Bleed but one-handed doesn't, it would seem to me a spear would make you bleed regardless (but then again I don't know how Bleed works in this game). Some of these benefits seem arbitrary.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1143612Definitely liking the Fantasy Craft version of the Spartan more than D&D or PF. D&D shields just suck spectacularly and they treat the spear like trash, when in reality the spear is one of the most effective melee weapons there is, which is one of the they were used so broadly historically. FC also seems to give you a lot of extra feats through your Specialty, which helps bridge the gap for this concept by awarding you all the basic abilities you need to fulfill that role, kinda like a AD&D 2e kit on steroids.

Yep. But honestly - in FC you can make nearly any weapon deadly in your hands. That's one of the best parts of the system.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1143612Some this stuff still goes over my head a bit, though, cuz FC includes a lot of unique elements I don't know how they work in this game, such as Reach, or the Armor Piercing and Keen qualities mentioned in the Shield Mastery feat description.

It's not dissimilar than 3.x/PF. Reach is merely the 1"/5-ft demarcation of how far you can use melee-actions in combat. There are no Attacks of Opportunity like in 3.x/PF for entering or leaving an opponents Reach as part of the core rules of combat. However there are abilities - Tricks and Stances that will give you special abilities when opponents are within Reach. For example - having Polearm Basics let's you make free attacks on any opponent that moves into an area adjacent to you - which is redefined by Reach as per normal combat rules, as adjacent is anything you can reach.

Keen basically extends your weapon's damage on a Critical strike. So if, for example, you have a Shortsword that does 1d8 with Keen 4 - and a threat-range of 19-20, and you roll a 19, and hit. You blow an Action Die to confirm the Critical strike. You weapon is now doing 1d8+4 (and any other bonuses for Strength, Feat, etc.) against your opponents Wounds (which is usually their Con. score). This is extremely lethal, but welcome to Fantasy Craft crits.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1143612I'm also not sure how using a spear one handed would improve reach, since you would need to hold it around the middle to wield it effectively, but using it two-handed gives you greater control of length IRL. You can even use the whole length of the weapon when making thrusting maneuvers two-handed if you skewer the shaft and push it forward with your back hand while holding the pole near the end.

I'm also not sure how holding it two-handed gives you Bleed but one-handed doesn't, it would seem to me a spear would make you bleed regardless (but then again I don't know how Bleed works in this game). Some of these benefits seem arbitrary.

Well it's a combination of things - anyone can use a Boar Spear, it has Reach +1. But the assumption is by training with that weapon, and gaining Spear Basics - you're learning how to effectively thrust with it as needed. Much like a fencer learns to leverage fantastic range beyond the normal reach of his weapon with a lunge. The system isn't trying to be "realistic" as much as it's trying to give mechanical weight and be cinematic. However you want to abstract it is up to you, of course. Fighting with spear and shield is a time-honored and ridiculously optimal load-out on the battlefield that has stood the test of time up until the advent of gunpowder. RPG's have generally shit all over that style of fighting and never gotten it right.

You can still fight with your spear Feats and use a Pike or longer weapon and do the things you're mentioning. I merely pointed out I used the Boar Spear as a satisfying middle-ground to represent the Spartan spear - the Dory. The stats are about what I'd park them on, and so I rolled with it. But you could go Pike and then have insane Reach and other options - without really changing your character's build at all. You're merely using another weapon in your wheelhouse that you designed your character to fight with.

Think about it - my core concept is a Spartan. I wanted a Shield and Spear fighter. But the system is actually allowing me to use Spears, Polearms, Staves - simultaneously and intermixed not only in the weapon used, but in HOW I use them. By allowing me to use their Stances and Tricks interchangeably, it's leveraging my concept and giving me more options on a round-by-round basis without penalizing me at all. In fact it's quite the opposite - I'm encouraged to use different varieties of weapons as I see fit. This is true of Sword, Axe, and Blunt weapons too. And even better - this is not limited by class. This is limited by player choice as an expression of how their character operates.

It's very elegant and might sound "fiddly" - in play, it's exactly what you want and choose in your PC and it's no different than 3.x/PF except it works.

Edit: in 3.x once you've chosen your "weapon" you're usually stuck doing that one thing with very little variety in how you use it. And god forbid you invest feats into it - and get a better weapon of a different type... ugh. Bland and mechanically weak

QuoteFantasy Craft gives you 36-points to build your character. All stats start at 10.

Hmm, 2nd edition pg. 8 has you starting with 8 attribute points.

-Don't want to derail-

I've bought Fantasy Craft just off the strength of this thread; I've found PCGen (http://pcgen.org/) has FantasyCraft - and their NPC converter thing (https://www.crafty-games.com/shop/fantasy-craft-npc-builder/) any other tools?

(I'm following along this thread, and want to build a few.)

Quote from: VisionStorm;1143612I'm also not sure how holding it two-handed gives you Bleed but one-handed doesn't, it would seem to me a spear would make you bleed regardless (but then again I don't know how Bleed works in this game). Some of these benefits seem arbitrary.

Ok, gonna admit that finding this was annoying. Went to the crafting section first because I remembered that a list of effects you can add to a weapon is there, but the description of Bleed didn't actually have any info. Also no page reference. Realized these were weapon Qualities, so used that to find another similar list a few pages earlier in the book that explained how Bleed works - if you damage the opponent, they have to make a fortitude save or start "bleeding." Again no page reference! And it didn't say what bleeding actually did. Figured that I'd call something like that a "condition," so finally had the right word to figure out what bleeding actually does. Page 212. So, bleeding causes you to take 1 subdual damage per round if you take no actions, or 1d4 lethal damage if you do take any actions. Basically a minor DOT effect, in video game terms.

It's just a way of being a little more effective without just adding extra damage to the attack itself. Some weapons can also entangle, poison, or do other things. Can't say they're any more arbitrary than any of the bonuses tacked onto D&D weapons(when D&D even bothers; you'll notice the FC gear list has a lot more variety in that respect). And at least in FC they try to make the default bonus effects(you can use the crafting system to make a lot of atypical gear, too) make sense given how the weapon works IRL. And to make different types of weapons, again by default, attractive in different ways.

You'll also notice that you can just add effects to weapons if you're willing to either spend the money or spend the materials and craft it yourself. So you can have a spear with Bleed without having to take Spear Basics. Or even be 2-handed. Having Spear Basics just automatically adds Bleed to any 2-handed spear in your hands that doesn't have it already. It's one of those things the GM is expected to oversee; but if the GM allows it, there's nothing keeping you from buying/making some really weird stuff if you want.

ETA: After Spellbound, the next book was supposed to be an expansion on the gear system. Or at least contain such a thing(I have trouble believing there's enough there for a whole book, especially considering how robust the options in the core book already are; but maybe I'm wrong). As much as I love the book series it's based on, I will forever refuse to buy any Mistborn RPG products because of how they neglected Fantasy Craft in favor of it. It doesn't help that Mistborn(at least the original trilogy) doesn't even make sense as an RPG in the first place. It's just not that kind of setting.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1144035ETA: After Spellbound, the next book was supposed to be an expansion on the gear system. Or at least contain such a thing(I have trouble believing there's enough there for a whole book, especially considering how robust the options in the core book already are; but maybe I'm wrong). As much as I love the book series it's based on, I will forever refuse to buy any Mistborn RPG products because of how they neglected Fantasy Craft in favor of it. It doesn't help that Mistborn(at least the original trilogy) doesn't even make sense as an RPG in the first place. It's just not that kind of setting.

I don't mind waiting longer for Spellbound, since they're working on really important projects, like Dollars to Donuts.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/craftygames/dollars-to-donuts?ref=661fze&token=f367327b