So I'd like people's honest opinions on if 7e is an improvement of 5e, pros and cons. Really, the more thorough people could be in their breakdowns, I'd really appreciate it.

I've actually played a little 7e, but only a few weeks worth. As an old Grognard I found the changes annoying and weird, BUT I find myself wondering if that was just a kneejerk reaction to change (the wokification of some of the 7e modules may have also tainted me, also the annoyance of converting 6e adventures.)

So please, gather around in a circle, and spray forth your combined wisdom upon me.

I'd rather hear your reasons for considering a change to 7e. If you've been running 5e for decades it's clearly working for you. Why would you want to change?

Think I have 5e. I have zero interest in moving to a new edition especially with how Chaosium acts anymore.

Think had a peek at one of the newer editions and was just not impressed.

I played in a pretty lengthy campaign of 7e, so I feel that I gave it a fair shot.  And while not bad, I still see absolutely no reason to invest my money in the new system when the old one works perfectly well.  Any changes made were for the worse, IMO.   To someone new to the game it wouldn't be such a big decision, but I own a mountain of stuff for the 2nd-6th editions and am not about to either convert it to 7e or buy it all over again.  If there was ever a case of changing rules simply because the company wanted to sell a bunch of new books, this is it.

Quote from: Grognard GM on December 11, 2023, 01:02:55 AM
So I'd like people's honest opinions on if 7e is an improvement of 5e, pros and cons. Really, the more thorough people could be in their breakdowns, I'd really appreciate it.

I've actually played a little 7e, but only a few weeks worth. As an old Grognard I found the changes annoying and weird, BUT I find myself wondering if that was just a kneejerk reaction to change (the wokification of some of the 7e modules may have also tainted me, also the annoyance of converting 6e adventures.)

So please, gather around in a circle, and spray forth your combined wisdom upon me.

Are you switching to D&D 4e and Shadowrun 6e too?  Hells bells, let me send you a copy of Katana-ra for you to run as well.

Ok, I'm laying it on a little thick but 7e doesn't have any improvements in the game play experience.  Just stick with 5e and everyone will be happy. 

I run 7th ed now (well, my version of 7th Ed).
It has it's good and bad points:

1) It's more survivable in the short term (by burning luck), but long term the PCs will still die/go insane/retire hurt.
2) It's nice to codify the easy/difficult tasks, but you're still stuck with the foibles of the d100 system.
3) I find myself having to convert/reconvert stats: e.g. Strength 70 ... that's Strength 14 in old money ... which *5 is 70% ... oh.
4) I ignore any modern-day cultural stuff I don't think is relevant (which often isn't much). Often it's so inconsequential (a sign it's only there to pander) you can change it without affecting anything.

So, was it worth changing? Not really, but so little actually changed that I ended up changing to 7th ed so I can run at conventions without confusing people who are expecting CoC = 7th Ed.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on December 11, 2023, 04:40:37 AM
I'd rather hear your reasons for considering a change to 7e. If you've been running 5e for decades it's clearly working for you. Why would you want to change?

That's a pertinent question. I guess I can break it down to three concerns/considerations.

1) I've been in love with the old gal for 30 years, but it was always for her personality over her looks. As time marched on, more and more systems introduced pools/points/gamble mechanics where players could, in a limited degree, mollify the results of a purely mechanical failure.

Yes it's a universe of unrelenting horror, yadda yadda, but there's plenty of unbeatable enemies, and suicidal player decisions, without "you're fucked because you rolled 61 rather than 60.'

So I've grown to prefer games when players can nudge fate, just a little, just enough to ease frustration/avoid derailing the story at a key point. Just enough to survive being knifed by Cultist #3 in scene one, and make it to being eaten by the interesting thing in the finale.

So 7e has a Luck pool, and Pushing rules. Neither seems overly generous, or a free lunch, but like they potentially reduce the whiff-factor a smidge.


2) I've been slowing getting into VTTs, first as a response to Covid destroying my game group and driving me online, and later because of the various tools for lazy/less mathematically minded players.

Yes 6e is still available for VTT, but it is far less supported than 7e, and is probably on life support. I don't really care as far as scenarios go (I have pdfs and paper) but the newer and more supported a system, the more the tools proverbially peel the grapes for my players.

Now, 2 is very much linked to 1. If I'm not sold on 7, I'll make 6 work just fine online. Hell, I can make it work with Discord and Word documents.


3) Edition drift/new player expectations.

This wasn't a problem up through 6e, but now the great divergence has occurred, and time is only going to cause the rift in player expectations to grow wider. New players are going to expect 7e, and while most will happily transition to pre-7e, more and more players are going to own/know the system for 7e, and find having to 'devolve' some combination of annoying/making their shiny books useless.


So, these are the reasons for the 7e demons in my head. Thoughts and counter-points much appreciated from all.

Quote from: spon on December 11, 2023, 09:06:22 AM
I run 7th ed now (well, my version of 7th Ed).
It has it's good and bad points:

1) It's more survivable in the short term (by burning luck), but long term the PCs will still die/go insane/retire hurt.
2) It's nice to codify the easy/difficult tasks, but you're still stuck with the foibles of the d100 system.
3) I find myself having to convert/reconvert stats: e.g. Strength 70 ... that's Strength 14 in old money ... which *5 is 70% ... oh.
4) I ignore any modern-day cultural stuff I don't think is relevant (which often isn't much). Often it's so inconsequential (a sign it's only there to pander) you can change it without affecting anything.

So, was it worth changing? Not really, but so little actually changed that I ended up changing to 7th ed so I can run at conventions without confusing people who are expecting CoC = 7th Ed.

I think the addition of pushing and the luck pool is by far the biggest change as far as the effect in practice. And yes, it is still very deadly. But it gives players a little edge and gives them a little more mechanically to think about. I think that can be a small distraction if you're trying to really get into the immersion in the scenario, but it doesn't make the game heroic, just a little more tactically engaging.

Regarding #3 -- the older editions had a number of places to roll (stat x 5), like the Idea roll. In general, it's a percentile system - so while it took some adjustment, I felt it's simpler and more logical for the stats to also be on a percentile scale.

Quote from: Grognard GM on December 11, 2023, 01:07:03 PM
1) I've been in love with the old gal for 30 years, but it was always for her personality over her looks. As time marched on, more and more systems introduced pools/points/gamble mechanics where players could, in a limited degree, mollify the results of a purely mechanical failure.

Yes it's a universe of unrelenting horror, yadda yadda, but there's plenty of unbeatable enemies, and suicidal player decisions, without "you're fucked because you rolled 61 rather than 60.'

So I've grown to prefer games when players can nudge fate, just a little, just enough to ease frustration/avoid derailing the story at a key point. Just enough to survive being knifed by Cultist #3 in scene one, and make it to being eaten by the interesting thing in the finale.

So 7e has a Luck pool, and Pushing rules. Neither seems overly generous, or a free lunch, but like they potentially reduce the whiff-factor a smidge.

If you like the idea of the Luck pool and pushing, then I'd recommend 7e. Those two are the biggest changes. The combat rules also have a few changes (though I can't remember the details), but it's largely the same system otherwise.

Quote from: jhkim on December 11, 2023, 02:36:55 PM
The combat rules also have a few changes (though I can't remember the details), but it's largely the same system otherwise.

Thanks for the reminder of this. As I recall, it has some strange system for gaining and maintaining dominance in the fight. I remember thinking it seemed unnecessarily fiddly and overly complex for a game like CoC.

It's an opposed roll system e.g. in melee when you are attacked you have a choice of Fight Back or Dodge.  The better result (Success/ Hard Success/ Extreme) wins and does damage.  If it was a successful draw e.g. Success vs Success or Hard Success vs Hard success  and the defender  was Fighting Back the attacker wins. If the defender dodges the the defender wins ties.   In the base rules  Brawling is king it has a higher base and has a full range of damage from 1d4 to 1d8 and actual weapons have little advantage.