Quote from: Zachary The FirstWe're not talking about fanboys, but the guys who actually created a game up at the podium.  It was a joke, and pretty clearly not one that was appreciated.

Being unfunny and unprofessional, it should be expected.

Anyone who thinks that saying "your favorite game sucks" to a majority of the market is going to elicit peal of uproarious laughter needs to lay down the crack pipe.

MCrow or jrients would both get my vote. Just tell me when and where to vote.

I thought the joke was funny.

Maybe people take these things too seriously... I'm not offended at all.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadBeing unfunny and unprofessional, it should be expected.

Anyone who thinks that saying "your favorite game sucks" to a majority of the market is going to elicit peal of uproarious laughter needs to lay down the crack pipe.

Maybe it was you I heard grumbling then...

Look, I'm not defending them or attacking them.  All I know is, I'd just heard "Pump It" for the 36th time in 50 minutes, the room was at least 93 degrees, and I enjoyed the awkward silence for a change.  And, it was funny to see so many folks go stone-faced over one small joke.

Quote from: RPGPunditThey would deserve to. But the reality of the judging and voting process, especially as every year it is more and more infiltrated by Swine from the Forge

There were no forgites on the board last year.

There were some open minded judged on the panel, however.

I have my own thoughts on this whole forge/anti-forge thing, but let me break it down to this: if you want your own views to be represented over the forges in the nomination process, then you should find, campaign for, and elect judges who share your views.

QuoteI'm trying to find the blog entry I wrote about it, last year I believe, of the case of the one judge who hadn't actually received all of the sample product he was supposed to before he made his selections, but was allowed to vote anyways. The guy went very public with complaints about it, springing the whole thing out into the open.

If you are referring to the case I think you are referring to, the person making said public complaints was in the wrong, levying his own "entry requirements" on the judges. The product was received, reviewed, and passed by. It happens.



Every loud complainer does not speak the truth. Especially when it's their baby that's being judged.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstAll I know is, I'd just heard "Pump It" for the 36th time in 50 minutes, the room was at least 93 degrees

That sucked ass.

We hope for better next year... but we hope for better every year.

That was me on stage parsing the awards out to the girls, by the way.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThat sucked ass.

We hope for better next year... but we hope for better every year.

That was me on stage parsing the awards out to the girls, by the way.

It was cool to see PirateCat--I've read his StoryHour, start to finish, I think!

Yeah, you know what I mean re: the soundtrack and temp, then.  Don't know what to do about the temp., but can we get a restraining order against Green Ronin for the DJ's table?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadBut thanks for reminding me about the petulant whining and second guessing that is the "down side" of the awards before I made the decision to get involved again.

No fucking shit. That's precisely the kind of bullshit comment that helped me make the decision not to be a judge after the last time I did it. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback and accuse others of impropriety when one doesn't know what the fuck one is talking about.

Quote from: RPGPunditThey would deserve to. But the reality of the judging and voting process, especially as every year it is more and more infiltrated by Swine from the Forge, is that if Wizards was a nominee it would just be an opportunity for the Swine to make sure its products "lost".

When I was a judge, the 2nd and 3rd years of the ENnies (if I recall correctly), I had no idea what the Forge was. I think I might have been to the website, but it didn't make an impression on me one way or the other.

The judges I dealt with were all conscientious and thoughtful. I disagreed with some decisions, but that's the point of the judges panel - each judge has his own perspective. But my own experience is that the judges have been pretty well-disposed to give everything a fair shake. I'd also say the ones I've dealt with have been more interested in how fun a game is to play than how it expresses some theory about RPGs. Doesn't mean they gave short shrift to anything, though.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThere were no forgites on the board last year.

Have there been any Forgites on any of the judges panels?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThere were some open minded judged on the panel, however.

Yes, I agree with this.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI have my own thoughts on this whole forge/anti-forge thing, but let me break it down to this: if you want your own views to be represented over the forges in the nomination process, then you should find, campaign for, and elect judges who share your views.

Exactly.

I also have to say I disagreed with the way WotC was effectively hamstrung. Yes, I know that they are the 800 lb. gorilla, and that other publishers would have little chance against them in the popular vote, but that's what the judges panel was there to help with - as we said time and again, the nominations were pretty damned important in and of themselves.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThere were no forgites on the board last year.

By whose definition of "Forgite"? :keke: :pundit:

Quote from: blakkieBy whose definition of "Forgite"? :keke: :pundit:

By the definition of "folks I knew to regularly participate in the forge as their primary means of net gaming discussion." Or alternately "big fans of non-traditional RPGs."

The panel last year was:
Jeff Ranger AKA Teflon Billy.
Chris Gath AKA Crothian
Joe G Kushner AKA... Joe G Kushner (he may have a presence at the forge; he does seem to hit all the boards. But he definitely has traditional sensibilities.)
David Temporado AKA diaglo... Old School Grognard
Rich Miller AKA Cthulhu's Librarian.

I don't think it's fair to say any of those guys are down on traditional RPGs, though for 2 of them, I know that D&D 3.x is not their favorite RPG.

They obviously were receptive enough to non-traditional games to allow Dread in the running.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadBy the definition of "folks I knew to regularly participate in the forge as their primary means of net gaming discussion." Or alternately "big fans of non-traditional RPGs."

See, "Forgite" as RPGPundit uses it is, in the tradition of Joe "Tailgunner" McCarthy, to red label in his own private war of Us vs. Them.

QuoteThey obviously were receptive enough to non-traditional games to allow Dread in the running.

Damn commies, allowing in a diceless game [that was written within the last decade].

She's courting disaster by inviting any Forgie participation.

The idea is, that there's going to be an impartial judge. So you can't be a publisher or have a "professional relationship with a publisher".

Well, the Forge is a fucking cult of publishers and the hangers-on who hope to one day be noticed by publishers. There's simply no fucking way they get an impartial judge out of that.

What they'll get is one spoiler judge who probably won't even look at the other stuff, and go about trying to fix the awards for maximum visibility of the one indie game that gets nominated this year, regardless of what it actually is or who wrote it. Because the point is (as always), advancment of the cult takes precedence.

I'm sincerely glad the ENnies exist. And I am genuinely happy that some people win awards. But awards are just awards and the selection process will never make consensus.

It doesn't really matter if it's Joe G. Kushner or (say) Mike Holmes selecting the winners to me. I wouldn't trust either guy to recognize quality products if they were reading them. But that's just me and my personal views.

All this to say, I think any kind of roleplaying award is just a nice and welcomed pat on the back. Doesn't really matter if it's for a metaplot-heavy game, a super-traditional game or some weird thing out of the Forge. It's not changing my buying habits. It may lead some folks to at least look at products they didn't know about.

As for politics being involved... well again, that's unfortunately part of award culture.

Quote from: Consonant DudeAs for politics being involved... well again, that's unfortunately part of award culture.

Regrettably so.  It's true for the Oscars, it's true for the Emmys, hell, I'm sure it's true for the ESPYs and every other award most folks don't care about.  So it is with the ENnies.  It's still nice when a good guy, gal, or company wins one, but being an awards ceremony (pissant as it might be in the big scheme of things), it will still have politics, controversy, hurt feelings, and all that stuff.  And those are all major reasons folks pay attention to awards ceremonies anyways.

Quote from: Consonant DudeAs for politics being involved... well again, that's unfortunately part of *snip* culture.

I view the awards a fun thing, not a serious thing. When I start to really care about if my product is better than other products I feel like I've missed the point of gaming. I do the best I can and have fun doing it. I'm not to concerned if my best isn't better than everyone elses.

Now the people behind the awards I treat very seriously. The people who are willing to do so much *work* so that we can all get together and laugh, clap, cheer and/or curse our respective fates deserve at least that much, IMO.

joe b.