Quote from: Brad;1044770That was my estimate going through the module...I browsed Curse of Strahd at the bookstore yesterday and wow, that thing is annoyingly complex. It's a complete campaign, so yeah, I think I shall refrain.

By all accounts, Curse of Strahd is uplayable without a thorough game aid and campaign outline document. People are even selling them online. The fact you need a 30+ page aid to run the campaign tells us all we need to know about WotC's shortcomings in adventure presentation. I have Out of the Abyss and I can't imagine anyone but an experienced DM running it, and even then they'd better be willing to put 6+ hours of prep time before the first session and 4+ hours between each session. And that's in addition to however many hours it takes to just read the thing.

Quote from: Haffrung;1044837By all accounts, Curse of Strahd is uplayable without a thorough game aid and campaign outline document. People are even selling them online. The fact you need a 30+ page aid to run the campaign tells us all we need to know about WotC's shortcomings in adventure presentation. I have Out of the Abyss and I can't imagine anyone but an experienced DM running it, and even then they'd better be willing to put 6+ hours of prep time before the first session and 4+ hours between each session. And that's in addition to however many hours it takes to just read the thing.

Out of the Abyss was terrible but I'm not sure what the need is for Curse of Strahd?  The adventure is pretty well laid out considering that the writer can't know which Fortunes of Ravenloft will be in play for any given play-through.  By the time the players have moved from Barovia to Vallaki they should have a good idea of what they are doing and a vague idea of where to go.  Also the fact that it is a fairly big but well fleshed out sandbox.

Contrast with Out of the Abyss which has terrible plotting.  The first half is lousy and has very few details other than the set pieces.  The second half is incomprehensible because they don't lay out WTF is going on except in a couple of paragraphs in like the last chapter.  It's brutal.

Quote from: Haffrung;1044832Back in the day, it took my players about 1.5 hours of table time to finish Ravenloft.

***SPOILERS***

They find the girl Strahd is in love with. Threaten her in daylight so Strahd zooms in and attacks them. They badly wound him. Then they head off to Castle Ravenloft and reconnoitre. Find the cliffside windows to the cellar level. Rappel down, smash through the windows, find Stradh's coffin, and stake him.

We had enough time left in the evening to play a game of Conquest of the Empire.

Haha that is totally awesome, love it

Yeah, I've been converting Curse of Strahd to run in Shadow of the Demon Lord, and personally it's the best laid out 5E campaign book by a mile (although that's not really saying much). There's one or two logic gaps that need filling, but by and large it's really easy to follow. Certainly not bad enough to need an additional 30 page dossier to run.

I mean if the guide being referenced is Sean McGovern's then it is probably worthwhile to get it.  You can get a lot of tips from his blog but I've found his guide to Tomb of Annihilation to be useful.  I'm also not adverse to giving Elven Tower some of my money because they produce good quality content.  But Curse of Strahd is probably the easiest of the published adventures (not counting the collection that is Tales) to play straight out of the book.

The only tip I've heard is that AL adventure #4 (IIRC) offers the party a way to get out of Barovia if they should so choose so that might be worthwhile for a campaign.  Not a one shot.

Quote from: Haffrung;1044832Back in the day, it took my players about 1.5 hours of table time to finish Ravenloft.

***SPOILERS***

They find the girl Strahd is in love with. Threaten her in daylight so Strahd zooms in and attacks them. They badly wound him. Then they head off to Castle Ravenloft and reconnoitre. Find the cliffside windows to the cellar level. Rappel down, smash through the windows, find Stradh's coffin, and stake him.

We had enough time left in the evening to play a game of Conquest of the Empire.

Are you sure that they weren't already familiar with the adventure?

Wow, who knew that Ravenloft speedruns were a thing?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1046361Are you sure that they weren't already familiar with the adventure?

Yep. This was when Ravenloft first came out. None of the other players were DMs or bought adventures. They didn't play in other groups. And of course it was long before the internet.

This was an old-school group. Ruthlessness, stealth, and reconnoitring were standard operating procedures.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1044632Yeah, I think the last time I ran it, it took my players something like three sessions to get through the original Ravenloft.

   Four or five sessions for my group, but I was using RM4 House of Strahd, plus, those sessions tended to run short. It ended in a TPK at the hands of Strahd himself down in the crypts.

Quote from: Krimson;1044100I'd recommend going to a used bookstore, picking up the first Ravenloft novel and maybe I, Strahd. Then read them.

This right here.

'I, Strahd' is actually pretty entertaining too! A definitely stand-out from typical game-inspired novels.

Quote from: tenbones;1046419This right here.

'I, Strahd' is actually pretty entertaining too! A definitely stand-out from typical game-inspired novels.

   I personally prefer the version of events in Vampire of the Mists, but I prefer Golden's more archaic, melodramatic Strahd to Elrod's more modern and snarky Strahd.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1046423I personally prefer the version of events in Vampire of the Mists, but I prefer Golden's more archaic, melodramatic Strahd to Elrod's more modern and snarky Strahd.

If it's for a Halloween game, there is more than enough time to read both.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1046423I personally prefer the version of events in Vampire of the Mists, but I prefer Golden's more archaic, melodramatic Strahd to Elrod's more modern and snarky Strahd.

They were both fun.

And how about 'Knight of the Black Rose'? I honestly loved that book. Lord Soth vs. Strahd. So much fun.

Quote from: tenbones;1046440They were both fun.

And how about 'Knight of the Black Rose'? I honestly loved that book. Lord Soth vs. Strahd. So much fun.

I certainly enjoyed that one. Soth felt better in Ravenloft than on Krynn.

Quote from: Haffrung;1046414Yep. This was when Ravenloft first came out. None of the other players were DMs or bought adventures. They didn't play in other groups. And of course it was long before the internet.

This was an old-school group. Ruthlessness, stealth, and reconnoitring were standard operating procedures.

I call Shenanigans.  Unless the DM was horrendously bad at keeping certain information secret, the players should not have known that the girl is the reincarnation of his lady love.  This is not apparent, or should not be made apparent.  Secondly, Strahd would not just 'show up'.  He'd wait until the PC's were vulnerable and then set them on fire or something.  He's an incredibly big bag of HP, he would last longer than any mid level party.  He's not stupid.