Link to the PDF file (4-page sample). (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/excerpt_1edmg1.pdf)
Looks like they had to OCR and reformat the whole thing after all, but it's very close nonetheless.
Looks like they used the TWCent font, which is nice (it's what I used for my retro clone stuff).
The only thing that stands out to me are the references to The Hobbit and Smaug. Since they are reprints, I'm assuming that WoTC needs to get permission for those?
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546591Looks like they used the TWCent font, which is nice (it's what I used for my retro clone stuff).
The only thing that stands out to me are the references to The Hobbit and Smaug. Since they are reprints, I'm assuming that WoTC needs to get permission for those?
Looks like fair use to me, since the game actually doesn't make these elements a part of the game itself (unlike OD&D and its Balrog and Hobbits, for instance).
Quote from: Benoist;546593Looks like fair use to me, since the game actually doesn't make these elements a part of the game itself (unlike OD&D and its Balrog and Hobbits, for instance).
That seems like fair use to me as well. I doubt Gary got permission when he first wrote this, and I am sure the Tolkein people would have come down like a hammer if it wasn't fair use.
I'm glad to see this project moving forward. I was worried for a while there that it was stuck in development limbo.
//Panjumanju
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;546596That seems like fair use to me as well. I doubt Gary got permission when he first wrote this, and I am sure the Tolkein people would have come down like a hammer if it wasn't fair use.
Back when Gygax wrote it, the "Tolkein people" didn't include New Line Cinema and a brigade of dickish lawyers.
This is how it should have been: no sloppy seconds, or thirds, or fourths of old scans. Thank you, WotC.
Also, hopefully, maybe, someone at Wizards in the process of reformatting and resetting the type actually read it.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;546607Back when Gygax wrote it, the "Tolkein people" didn't include New Line Cinema and a brigade of dickish lawyers.
Then they'll have to go after Hero Games (the 5e Fantasy supplement mentions many Lord of the Rings elements - Aragorn, the books by name, etc.), and on and on.
It's obvious that this is fair use; they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Quote from: Benoist;546589Link to the PDF file (4-page sample). (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/excerpt_1edmg1.pdf)
Looks like they had to OCR and reformat the whole thing after all, but it's very close nonetheless.
Man, that brings back memories.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;546611Then they'll have to go after Hero Games (the 5e Fantasy supplement mentions many Lord of the Rings elements - Aragorn, the books by name, etc.), and on and on.
It's obvious that this is fair use; they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Oh I completely agree about it being fair use, then and now.
Quote from: Benoist;546589Link to the PDF file (4-page sample). (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/excerpt_1edmg1.pdf)
Looks like they had to OCR and reformat the whole thing after all, but it's very close nonetheless.
Yes, pretty darn cool. :)
Quote from: Panjumanju;546604I'm glad to see this project moving forward. I was worried for a while there that it was stuck in development limbo.
Me too.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;546608This is how it should have been: no sloppy seconds, or thirds, or fourths of old scans. Thank you, WotC.
Yes, this as well!
Interesting that they chose a 4 page sample with no pictures.
Heresy I know, but I wish that this thing could be reformatted with a decent sized type face.
Quote from: Skywalker;546636Interesting that they chose a 4 page sample with no pictures.
Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that, because I remember, years ago, Trampier state that he holds the rights to his artwork because he was wanting to put together a project of all his Wormy Stuff.
If Tramp does hold the rights, and since he appears to want nothing to do with rpgs, it might be problematic to use the same art.
But I doubt that, because the covers reuse some of the old art. So they have to be able to use it all.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;546607Back when Gygax wrote it, the "Tolkein people" didn't include New Line Cinema and a brigade of dickish lawyers.
Back when Gygax wrote it, he'd already been successfully sued by the Tolkien IP holders.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546640Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that, because I remember, years ago, Trampier state that he holds the rights to his artwork because he was wanting to put together a project of all his Wormy Stuff.
If Tramp does hold the rights, and since he appears to want nothing to do with rpgs, it might be problematic to use the same art.
That fell through. He sold shares in an attempt to "kickstarter" a project to sue TSR to get Wormy back and shareholders would receive things like original art, signed & numbered special editions etc. of the books. When the deal fell through he slowly, over time, paid back all the shareholders...so TSR held the rights to the art.
His stuff popped up in the Return to the Tomb of Horrors set, the Silver Anniversary Set, the Dragon Magazine archives (it wasn't him who stopped that from being sold, it was K&C), the 4e Village of Hommlet set...
QuoteBut I doubt that, because the covers reuse some of the old art. So they have to be able to use it all.
I'd wager.
I have a sneaking suspicion, too, that any "offensive" art will be removed because "we couldn't get the rights to that piece" or "we couldn't find a really good quality scan" etc. Watch. You wait. They'll find some other pieces to throw away with them, too, to try and disguise that's what they're doing but I'd bet my last GP that's what's going to happen. I mean, I hope that's not the case but I'd wager it will happen.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;546658I have a sneaking suspicion, too, that any "offensive" art will be removed because "we couldn't get the rights to that piece" or "we couldn't find a really good quality scan" etc. Watch. You wait. They'll find some other pieces to throw away with them, too, to try and disguise that's what they're doing but I'd bet my last GP that's what's going to happen. I mean, I hope that's not the case but I'd wager it will happen.
You're probably right. Like that succubus image at the back of the DMG by Darlene (?)
No boobies for WotC
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546659You're probably right. Like that succubus image at the back of the DMG by Darlene (?)
No boobies for WotC
Yup.
Probably, like the covers, more "replacement" "tribute" art that "evokes the old illustrations".
I hope not.
I want the real deal, thank you very much. Full illos please!
QuoteIn stocking the setting for initial play in the campaign, you must use great
care. Consider the circumstances of the milieu and the number of player
characters who will be active in it. Then, from the lists of possible items,
choose a selection which is commensurate with the setting and the characters
involved. For example, you might opt for several potions, a scroll of 1 spell, a
wand, a pair of boots of elvenkind, several +1 magic arrows, and a +1 magic
dagger. As these items will be guarded by relatively weak creatures, you will
allow only weak items. The potions will be healing, heroism, levitation or the
like. The spell on the scroll will be low level — first or second. If you do
decide placement of the wand is appropriate, you will make certain that its
guardian will use it in defense, and the instrument will have few charges left
in any event, with a power which is not out of line with the level of the
characters likely to acquire it. The magical boots will be worn by a denizen of
the area. While the magic arrows might not be used against adventurers, the
+1 dagger will be. With all this in mind, you place the items in the
countryside and first/upper level of the dungeon/dungeon-like setting. You
never allow more than a single item or grouping (such as 3 magic arrows) to
a treasure, nor more treasures with magic items than 1 in 5 to 1 in 10, as this
is an initial adventuring setting.
This was replaced with wealth-by-level? A tragedy.
Quote from: B.T.;546680This was replaced with wealth-by-level? A tragedy.
Thinking about actual magic items and treasure placement on your map is super hard after all and we shouldn't have to do that, because it is discriminatory against illiterate and dumb DMs. Topher told me that so it must be true, right?
Quote from: Benoist;546682Thinking about actual magic items and treasure placement on your map is super hard after all and we shouldn't have to do that, because it is discriminatory against illiterate and dumb DMs. Topher told me that.
Boy, you're in full sail today.:D
Quote from: B.T.;546680This was replaced with wealth-by-level? A tragedy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkHst8GYbYI
Nah, they won't remove the succubus or the other one or two pictures with boobies. They're tame, they're iconic, and nobody but greybeards are buying these books anyway.
Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;546689Nah, they won't remove the succubus or the other one or two pictures with boobies. They're tame, they're iconic, and nobody but greybeards are buying these books anyway.
I have a sneaking suspicion more than a few newer players will mistake the books for Next and make a purchase.
Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;546689nobody but greybeards are buying these books anyway.
Actually, judging by the reception on RPGnet and ENWorld (I know, awesome sample) there seems to be quite a few "newbies" or veterans who have never actually played First Ed who are interested to find out what all the fuss is all about.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546659You're probably right. Like that succubus image at the back of the DMG by Darlene (?)
No boobies for WotC
Quote from: thedungeondelver;546664Yup.
Probably, like the covers, more "replacement" "tribute" art that "evokes the old illustrations".
Quote from: Benoist;546668I hope not.
I want the real deal, thank you very much. Full illos please!
I'm actually not that concerned with the original art. It would be nice, but as long as there are suitable sub replacements that don't throw the formatting off, I will be quite happy. I am interested in the original texts, so I can finally put my old copies up before they get really beat up or have something spilled on them. Doubleplus bonus if they have a pdf (which it looks like they will) on offer as well. Excellent if it comes with the dead tree purchase, but still good if available separately for a reasonable price.
Quote from: StormBringer;546716I'm actually not that concerned with the original art. It would be nice, but as long as there are suitable sub replacements that don't throw the formatting off, I will be quite happy. I am interested in the original texts, so I can finally put my old copies up before they get really beat up or have something spilled on them. Doubleplus bonus if they have a pdf (which it looks like they will) on offer as well. Excellent if it comes with the dead tree purchase, but still good if available separately for a reasonable price.
See, and I like the old art. Not necessarily the boobies, but you can't replace Tramp, and I really liked the comics (something you haven't seen since and the lack thereof I blame for people taking the game way to seriously), and the side scrolling illustration in the DMG that covered several pages.
Quote from: Benoist;546695Actually, judging by the reception on RPGnet and ENWorld (I know, awesome sample) there seems to be quite a few "newbies" or veterans who have never actually played First Ed who are interested to find out what all the fuss is all about.
I think that they will be equally wowed and horrified (intended in the most loving way possible) :)
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546721See, and I like the old art. Not necessarily the boobies, but you can't replace Tramp, and I really liked the comics (something you haven't seen since and the lack thereof I blame for people taking the game way to seriously), and the side scrolling illustration in the DMG that covered several pages.
See this man right here knows his shit. Y'all should listen to him. ;)
Quote from: Skywalker;546636Interesting that they chose a 4 page sample with no pictures.
All the original art is being modified to include lots of spikes and really big swords.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546721See, and I like the old art. Not necessarily the boobies, but you can't replace Tramp, and I really liked the comics (something you haven't seen since and the lack thereof I blame for people taking the game way to seriously), and the side scrolling illustration in the DMG that covered several pages.
Oh, yeah, I would love to introduce the newest generation of gamers to Tramp and Sutherland and Dee and all the rest. But even moreso, I would like to get the older rules back in circulation.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546640Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that, because I remember, years ago, Trampier state that he holds the rights to his artwork because he was wanting to put together a project of all his Wormy Stuff.
If Tramp does hold the rights, and since he appears to want nothing to do with rpgs, it might be problematic to use the same art.
But I doubt that, because the covers reuse some of the old art. So they have to be able to use it all.
I believe if it is reproduced directly as part of a 'collection', the current case law favors the publisher. It's a shame that when TSR released the Dragon Archive CD-ROM that the case law precedents weren't in place, because it sure could have used those precedents back then.
Then again, I've got my copy of the Archive, so I'm good.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546721. . . I really liked the comics (something you haven't seen since and the lack thereof I blame for people taking the game way to seriously) . . .
That's why DJ Barr is still my favorite
Traveller artist.
Dave Dietrick is technically amazing, and I love his view of the Far Future, but DJ Barr's cartoons capture the experience of actually playing the game, and that's priceless.
Quote from: talysman;546735All the original art is being modified to include lots of spikes and really big swords.
:nono:
Man, a perfectly OCR'd pdf of the DMG would almost be better then a new copy of the original, I hope they sell the pdf too.
Quote from: CRKrueger;546755Man, a perfectly OCR'd pdf of the DMG would almost be better then a new copy of the original, I hope they sell the pdf too.
I am sure it wouldn't be unprecedented, but it would be pretty damn stupid to put all that work in to a file that is (obviously) quite easy to translate into a pdf, then not make money on it. Sales of just the pdf should re-coup their investment. Those four pages are waaaaaay better than the crappy scanned files I have seen.
If they make the 1e books part of the DDi, and ever finish the "electronic tabletop" and include the 1e rules with it, I will subscribe to it. Period.
Reward good behavior.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;546751That's why DJ Barr is still my favorite Traveller artist.
Dave Dietrick is technically amazing, and I love his view of the Far Future, but DJ Barr's cartoons capture the experience of actually playing the game, and that's priceless.
:nono:
Agreed. Donna Barr is also great with "Stinz" and "The Desert Peach".
They should have just hired this guy:
[removed links since the documents are infringing on WotC's IP]
Would be much cooler if they did!
MM preview.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/excerpt_mm1.pdf (this is to the pdf)
That Carrion Crawler looks pretty familiar to me.
Looking good. Looking real good.
Quote from: jadrax;546784MM preview.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/excerpt_mm1.pdf (this is to the pdf)
That Carrion Crawler looks pretty familiar to me.
Yes, the images are crisp and not a Rorschach image. :)
Quote from: thedungeondelver;546664Yup.
Probably, like the covers, more "replacement" "tribute" art that "evokes the old illustrations".
how i see it happening as well. looks like you hit all the right buzzwords, too :rotfl:
Quote from: Benoist;546668I hope not.
I want the real deal, thank you very much. Full illos please!
not likely, methinks, alas.
good to see the originals (esp. the tramp one!) in that MM preview.
Quote from: jadrax;546784MM preview.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/excerpt_mm1.pdf (this is to the pdf)
That Carrion Crawler looks pretty familiar to me.
Maybe the contrast on the illos is a tiny wheeny bit too high but what the hell. This could have gone wrong in Oh-so-many ways that I'm pretty happy with the results here.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;546761If they make the 1e books part of the DDi, and ever finish the "electronic tabletop" and include the 1e rules with it, I will subscribe to it. Period.
Reward good behavior.
I got to tell you my horror stories trying to UNsubscribe from DDI some time.
Quote from: Benoist;546824I got to tell you my horror stories trying to UNsubscribe from DDI some time.
Like trying to cancel your AOL or 24hr Fitness membership?
Quote from: Sacrosanct;546826Like trying to cancel your AOL or 24hr Fitness membership?
If you mean a gazillion emails, having to phone the guys and jumping through hoops to basically repeat over and over "YES, stop my subscription RIGHT NOW," yes. Microsoft comes to mind, too.
Quote from: Benoist;546829If you mean a gazillion emails, having to phone the guys and jumping through hoops to basically repeat over and over "YES, stop my subscription RIGHT NOW," yes. Microsoft comes to mind, too.
Giving to a political campaign is the same thing. Sure, he who has the gold makes the rules, but if you've ever given once, they are NEVER satisfied with enough.
I'm really looking forward to getting these. Its funny, maybe even moreso than copies of 5e with my name in them.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;547092I'm really looking forward to getting these. Its funny, maybe even moreso than copies of 5e with my name in them.
I, too, place a higher value on the 1e reprints than 5e books with your name in them. ;)
Quote from: beeber;546811good to see the originals (esp. The tramp one!) in that mm preview.
+1
Quote from: benoist;546823maybe the contrast on the illos is a tiny wheeny bit too high but what the hell. This could have gone wrong in oh-so-many ways that i'm pretty happy with the results here.
+1
Quote from: philotomy jurament;547144i, too, place a higher value on the 1e reprints than 5e books with your name in them. ;)
+1
Quote from: Benoist;546823Maybe the contrast on the illos is a tiny wheeny bit too high but what the hell. This could have gone wrong in Oh-so-many ways that I'm pretty happy with the results here.
Probably the best they can do without the original art (which is long gone), but that's going to look pretty godawful once it gets printed.
Quote from: Teazia;546783They should have just hired this guy:
Would be much cooler if they did!
I would like you to explain what these files are. Is it a retroclone? Or is this a "pirated" version of AD&D? I wasn't able to open either from here at this time, and you should include more explanation when you post one of these links. I'll mention that "piracy" is strictly forbidden by site policy; and posting links, especially to files like this, without adequate explanation of the contents is extremely frowned upon.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;547338I would like you to explain what these files are. Is it a retroclone? Or is this a "pirated" version of AD&D? I wasn't able to open either from here at this time, and you should include more explanation when you post one of these links. I'll mention that "piracy" is strictly forbidden by site policy; and posting links, especially to files like this, without adequate explanation of the contents is extremely frowned upon.
RPGPundit
I checked them out cursorily, and from what I can tell, while the text is not a strict 1:1 copy of the original, the illustrations definitely are infringing on WotC's copyright. There is also no mention of the OGL that I could find, so technically, this is not a retroclone or a legal use of some elements present in the d20 SRD document. This could be construed as infringing on WotC's IP.
I edited the post accordingly, and removed the links to said documents.
Right. Teazia, please don't post that sort of thing again.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;547346Right. Teazia, please don't post that sort of thing again.
RPGPundit
Sorry, my bad. Most other sites seem open to the files. They are rather cool, recreations of sorts of the Gygax books. The game is actually a really clean version of C&C with other bits, but the art and text can be offputting to some.
Worth checking out IMO. Chris Perkins, not the WOTC one, has been working on them for at least 5 years. They are infact the house rule books for his home game.
He has basically already done what the new reprints are doing in a way.
I found the 1e books really dry reading, back in the day, so less excited about these than most others. Besides that, I still have my original Players handbook somewhere in the loft, albeit its battered to hell and with notes and scribbles in it.
No word on a BECMI Rules Cyclopedia release? I think that'd get more mouth foam flowing than even the 1e re-release. If they did a tidy up job on that... *mouth foaming*
If nothing else it'd stop the high - crazy prices these things go for on ebay.
Still, this (1e re-release) is an olive branch to the old school crowd. A good thing WOTC have done. Not sure what their paymasters at Hasbro might think though... They might not care so long as it adds a nought to the balance sheet final figure for the year.