Quote from: thecasualoblivion;548289Looking at the character sheets and the discussion over at rpg.net and comparing it to my own 5E playtest experience, I'd play it over 5E for sure at this point.

Glad that you find the game to your liking. Maybe you'll play it and leave off about 5e then. It's not my cup of tea but that doesn't make it a bad game.

13th Age plays well.  In combat its a smooth d20 game, combats lasting no more then 4-5 rounds.  The Escalation die helps save the character's bacon as their backs are against the wall, but the fight were still fairly hard fought.

It didn't strike me as like 4e really (apart from the obvious d20-ness), in that it doesn't use battlemats for example, feats and powers are kept within sensible boundaries, there are only 10 levels and so forth.

The Relationships with Icons are good for making up some good back story, if you like some sort of "world burning" aspect, obviously if you want reams of setting info provided in the books then you're not going to be as happy about that.

Some of the "indie" aspects need tightening up - there's general advice, but the system bit feels tacked on and some other bits just need some proper structure.  Each character has a unique "thing", but this is often more for interesting story purposes than getting l337 bonuses.  One playtest example is that a character cast no shadow, we talked it out and worked out which Icon had taken it, and what would happen if the character died before getting it back.

Its a fun game.  Hardcore D&D monkeys may find Pathfinder (and such) more use, and 4e monkeys could find it a bit too airy fairy.  If you've not got a d20 style fantasy game though, and want to give one a crack (or want something different), it works well.

Quote from: Marleycat;548208And here I was thinking it may be a decent game. Well at least some 4eer's might like it and quit bitching about 5e.

This particular 4E player is not impressed with 13th Age so far.

I'm reserving judgement on 5E for now.

I'm less concerned about which game I'm playing than who I'm playing it with. No haters.

D&D plus some indie innovations is a no-brainer.  Somebody was bound to do it, and they'll make some money at it.

The part I don't get is the "love letter to D&D" line.  It seems more like a "love letter to epic heroic fantasy destiny stories".  Maybe they mean "love letter to D&D the way we used to try to play it post-Dragonlance after the DM touched us, plus indie-story bits that make us feel pretty hip, plus a core of d20 on which we built our names".  Yeah, I guess that's it.  And really there's nothing wrong with that, I just don't see it as a love letter to D&D [as I define D&D, I guess].

Lest I come across as a hater, there are probably some cool ideas in 13th Age.  "Everyone has a link to one of these major NPCs" could be an intriguing baseline for a particular campaign.  For a whole game, I dunno.

Quote from: Peregrin;548293That'd be awful convenient for the narrative this site's population has constructed, but I still have seen no evidence of this anywhere.

Nice try. No going to the mattresses for me this week, feel free to knock yourself out though.  

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;548311I'm less concerned about which game I'm playing than who I'm playing it with. No haters.

Who you play with is a huge factor it can make any game tolerable at least short term.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;548289Looking at the character sheets and the discussion over at rpg.net and comparing it to my own 5E playtest experience, I'd play it over 5E for sure at this point.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;548230The existence of Pathfinder and OSR retroclones didn't really stop people hating on enjoying a D&D different from theirs. Why should this be different, particularly in light of the comments in this thread.

I continue to be amused by this site's complaints against "4vengers" while under the illusion that people behave any better here.

Shut up, you threadcrapping trollcunt.

Back to the topic at hand:

QuoteHuman Fighter (melee)

Unique Thing: The Chosen One, prophesied to become the greatest wizard in all the land, but dropped out of Wizard School to see the world. Many people in the world will stop at nothing to fulfill the prophecy and see you returned to the study of magic.

QuoteUnique Thing: Hundreds of years old, cursed to live through the end of the 13th Age and watch everything burn to ash for a slight against The Diabolist.

QuoteUnique Thing: A bird of prey transformed to humanoid shape. You don't know why or how, but this is your chance to learn everything about the human world.

QuoteUnique Thing: You are a gargoyle, a synthetic dragon created in an attempt to replace The White.

QuoteUnique Thing: You long ago sold your identity to become a potential Icon, the archetypal adventurer. You must avoid attachments and your past to ascend to the rank of a new Icon.

What is this shit.

Quote- It is not a Fantasy Heartbreaker. The definition of a fantasy heartbreaker is a game clearly written by someone who's never played anything besides D&D, and it shows; the game they come up with is D&D with one or two great ideas, and those great ideas cause the heartbreak because they're in a system that is too much like other systems to get a fair chance.

13th Age is not a heartbreaker. All throughout the system, references to D&D abound - and so do references to FATE, Burning Wheel, 7th Sea, Ars Magica, Over the Edge, Feng Shui and the like. 13th Age draws upon this knowledge and casts an eye towards how D&D might serve its goal through alternate ends. It's so stuffed with great ideas it may as well be called "Every d20 Rule You Didn't Know You Always Wanted."

Don't think so, Tim.

QuoteIt's a love letter in that it recalls all the best parts of the object of affection, while ignoring or forgiving all of its shortcomings and flaws. Included in the letter is the time you clawed your way out of a sure defeat, of the time you undid the diabolical schemes of the King of All Liches, that moment of quiet joy when the imaginary person on the piece of paper did something you never expected them to do.

Not included is that time you argued over whether or not you'd packed enough rope. (13th Age doesn't have a Fantasy Accountant subgame - you're presumed to be equipped for the job if you know it's coming.) It doesn't include that time you rolled poorly on a skill check and the game ground to a halt as the GM slowly realized that now you have no way forward. (13th Age skill checks always "fail forward" - if you flub the roll, you still advance, you'll just have some... complications.) It especially doesn't include that time you all argued what the One True Edition is, which is one of 13th Age's biggest draws for me.

Sounds like strong storygame material.

Quote- The Escalation Die: One thing about D&D is that as fights go on, characters get weaker. They accumulate status conditions or run out of powers and the fight starts to drag. Not so with 13th Age which has an escalation die - essentially, the biggest d6 you can find, laid squat in the center of the table, and each round beyond the first, you increment this die by 1, capping at 6. Player characters get this bonus to their attacks.

This represents characters figuring out the holes in the enemy's defenses, fatigue on the enemy's side, adrenaline, getting into the groove... whatever you wish to call it, this ensures that fights hit a point where monsters start dropping and dropping fast. Several class abilities are unlocked by the die - your fighter, for example, may start cleaving through entire squads of enemies once he's got their number, and clerics have a chance to retain spells when the die is over a certain number, to illustrate their gods giving them strength when it's most needed.

Adventurers must always win no matter what, or else the game isn't fun.

QuoteIn my playtest game, one character had Son of a Lich, which meant he traced his bloodline back to the game's Lich King, and he had special insight into their machinations, magical abilities and organization. Another had Star Born, which meant that his character was an avatar created by a far-off star, acting as a font of divine power. Another had Empathy, which meant that he'd catch emotional states and lies that others would miss.

What.

QuoteOne Unique Thing becomes a catch-all rule that can accomodate things that aren't explicit, and in turn, are a symbol of 13th Age's design ethos, which encourages unique campaigns, unique characters, and for the players and GM to collaborate on the adventure they'll be sharing.

Collaborative storytelling.  :rolleyes:

I think it has some neat ideas, but I'm not sure how well it would actually work in play. It's certainly not going to replace my favorite (BFRPG).

Quote from: thedungeondelver;548207
Like, Greater God

ARMOR CLASS: -HOODIE
MOVE: 12"/#36" (#=IN DODGE CHARGER SRT)
HIT POINTS: FUCK IT, ALL OF 'EM MAN.
NO. OF ATTACKS: LIKE, FOUR OR FIVE ON THE XBOX CONTROLLER OR SOME SHIT, MAN.
DAMAGE/ATTACK: I'LL POP YOU ONE BRAH
SPECIAL ATTACKS: I'LL ICE A BRO!
SPECIAL DEFENSE: AXE BODY SPRAY
MAGICAL RESISTANCE: MAN, FUCK THAT GAY SHIT BUT I GUESS CRISS ANGEL CAN PULL THE BABES SO WHATEVER RIGHT
SIZE: WHOA BRAH, PERSONAL
ALIGNMENT: CHAOTIC DUDE
WORSHIPER'S ALIGN: BABES WITH ME, BRAH
SYMBOL: RAM TOUGH
PLANE: GREEK ROW
CLERIC/DRUID: NAW BRAH
FIGHTER: HELL YEAH, HALO3 FTW
MAGIC-USER/ILLUSIONIST: IS THIS LIKE THAT MYSTERY GUY WHO IS TOTALLY A PUA?  I'M DOWN WITH THAT
THIEF/ASSASSIN: NOW WE'RE TALKIN
MONK/BARD: YOU GOTTA BE SHITTIN' ME BRAH
PSIONIC ABILITY: VI

Cool story, bro.

Quote from: CRKrueger;548325Nice try. No going to the mattresses for me this week, feel free to knock yourself out though.  

Someone at The Gaming Den dug this up recently. Completely off-topic for this thread, but oh well.

 http://mearls.livejournal.com/80639.html   (23/02/2005)
   
 

Quote from: mearlsRight - since RPGs are the ultimately morphable game form, they can achieve whatever ends you want from them. In D&D's case, the emphasis is on combat. You could run an investigative or roleplay-intensive game, but if you do that in D&D you are challenging the players, not their characters.

This is where I think the basic model of GNS applies, even if I disagree with the specifics of its implementation. A game should be designed with a specific play experience in mind. In D&D, it's heroic action and adventure. I'd argue that if you want a game without combat, there are better choices out there. For example, I think Dying Earth and Dogs in the Vineyard are both superior games if plot development or roleplay are important to you to the point that you would rather junk tactical combat in their favor.

So, in D&D miniatures give more power to the players, but that doesn't apply to RPGs as a whole. I'd argue that if you're playing D&D with a focus on investigation, stealth, or roleplay, and the players enjoy it, you've already moved outside the typical D&D paradigm as a group. My focus is on the average D&D group. IME, the typical D&D group sees those factors as fun ways to bridge combat, or interesting ways to earn tactical advantages in upcoming encounters, or a good way to lend emotional weight to a battle. Those factors are all very important (they're why D&D is popular and viable despite other game forms), but they are built around heroic action and adventure.

Quote from: B.T.;548364snip:

Here's an idea: Don't fucking play it then and move on.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;548370Here's an idea: Don't fucking play it then and move on.

TheRPGSite: A forum for discussing roleplaying games.

Quote from: B.T.;548375TheRPGSite: A forum for discussing roleplaying games.

"What is this shit?  This is bullshit worthless crap" isn't exactly conducive to discussion, if that's what you're aiming for.

If you hate the game so much, don't play it, and no point in talking about it.  Most people I know don't spend so much emotional investment into something they can't stand.  Especially someone's side project of a game that isn't even a mainstream system.  Play and talk about a game you like.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;548378"What is this shit?  This is bullshit worthless crap" isn't exactly conducive to discussion, if that's what you're aiming for.

If you hate the game so much, don't play it, and no point in talking about it.  Most people I know don't spend so much emotional investment into something they can't stand.  Especially someone's side project of a game that isn't even a mainstream system.  Play and talk about a game you like.

How about you post what you want to post and I'll post what I want to post.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;548368Someone at The Gaming Den dug this up recently. Completely off-topic for this thread, but oh well.

 http://mearls.livejournal.com/80639.html   (23/02/2005)

Quote from: mearlsThis is where I think the basic model of GNS applies, even if I disagree with the specifics of its implementation. A game should be designed with a specific play experience in mind.

That's the Forge Kool Aid that sank 4e.  I'm not convinced he's learned his lesson and still expect this for D&D Next:



...though this time, it will be OSR flavored Forge Kool Aid.

From Ryan Dancey's comments on the Pyramid message boards concerning the design goals for 3e in 2000:

Quote from: danceyWe believe that a game that appeals to all four differentiated segments (the people in the middle are pretty happy with a modicum of time spent out of game, and pretty happy with most aspects of RPG play in general and are therefore pretty easy to please) is a game that is likely to have strong overall sales and retain long term interest in the player community.

Games that lack support for one of the four differentiated segments struggle, and games that lack support for more than one are rarely played (though frustratingly for some such a game may be the >perfect< game for one of the subgroups; the problem is finding two or more people of the same inclination to play the game regularly).

[...]

I believe that the empasis on "storyteller" type games and publisher-driven storylines over the past decade skewed the product mix of the RPG category away from support for all four segments, and that is the reason that products sell so poorly today compared to say 15 years ago.

Maybe they need to put Ryan Dancey back on the payroll at WotC because clearly the people that are left forgot (or maybe never understood) what made 3e successful.  I imagine Dancey's job, if he were re-hired, as being something like this: