Also, there are a number of things that make TFT unusual (in good ways). Perhaps the most noticeable is that it uses hex and chit board games as its game design starting point, and the result is a tactical combat game that is surprisingly rich despite having a pretty simple set of rules. It's just a lot of fun to play out fights in the system. Second, a related point, it has the most tactical magic system I've seen - basically spell casting is totally woven into tactical combat, and visa versa. Third, the way characters are created and described is sort of like GURPS if GURPS were written as an early edition of D+D - all the concepts of complex modern games are there (point buy, few barriers to constructing hybrid character types, etc.), but it all feels very simple and stream lined and fast. Another thing you notice once you start playing is that it is very lethal. The reason is that the game was designed as a competitive gladiatorial combat game, so the expectation is that both sides can lose. This means you have to get used to the idea that some (or all!) of your characters will get chewed up, but it also makes for very exciting, competitive feeling adventures. All in all, its a pretty unusual experience.

No it's not just $25 or $110. You could just get the basic Melee game for $15, and get counters, a map, and the basic combat rules. That's how I started in 1980, but it cost $2.95 then.

The $25 comes with PDFs of everything (I think including maps and counters, so if you feel like saving money and printing your own counters, or just using miniatures, and don't mind PDF rules, that gets you everything but nothing physical).

Or if you want a physical book and will use your own hex maps and counters or miniatures, then you could just get the $25 In The Labyrinth book, which is the full RPG rules including a superset of the rules in the basic Melee & Wizard games. You just wouldn't get the adventures, counters, screen, 6-sided dice, record sheets, or the Space Gamer reprints and bonus materials in the $15 book with the cool octopus cover.

$60 would get you counters & maps, the full RPG rules and the adventures and screen and character sheet pads, all PDFs, but not the fancy 1.5" hex mats, nor the octopus companion book.

$110 also gets you a hardcover ITL book (in addition to the softcover ITL book - same content twice), the battlemats and the octopus companion book.

Quote from: Dave R;1052788What makes it awesome for someone who's never played it and doesn't worship Steve Jackson?

It's a very well-designed game and/or RPG, which offers interesting deadly mapped tactical gameplay that's like what you can get from GURPS or a good tactical wargame or skirmish-level miniatures game, but has short rules that are easy to learn.

The quality of that game made me balk at practically every other RPG I saw after getting into TFT. Tastes vary, but I'd give it a try.

TFT is an easy sell to a group which likes tactical minis combat...and is cool with high death rates.

That's really your "do I buy or not?" qualifier. Fans of tactical minis combat will find lots to like in TFT. AKA, if you have players who love combat, love minis, love maps and enjoy the competition of deadly violence, then pledge the Kickstarter.

If I had a group who wanted to play GURPS Fantasy, I'd run TFT for them instead...and they'd be happy bastards (except that one dude who owns all the GURPS books but nobody likes him).

Quote from: Dave R;1052788So a $25 pdf or $110 complete physical game set, correct?  And the reward levels are not easy to parse for someone who's never heard of the game.  If the pdf is a complete game, why do I want Melee and Wizard?  Are they add-ons to the rpg, or separate board games, or precursors ala the first Rolemaster books, or what?  If it's not a complete game, what's the lowest tier that is?

It depends on your level of DIYness.

* $25 - PDF. You'll get all of the Legacy Edition content, plus the Companion, but as digital files. You have to print/construct your own maps and counters and supply your own dice.

* $30 - The PDF + you get physical copies of the Melee and Wizard microgames. These each include a map and counters.

* $60 - PDF + Legacy Edition, which includes Melee and Wizard. You'll get megahex die-cut sheets, two solitaire adventures with counters, a GM screen.

* $110 - PDF + Legacy Edition + two playmats + a hardcover of the 160-page In the Labyrinth book (which is included as a softcover in the Legacy Edition box, so you would have two copies), as well as a softcover of the Companion book.

Do you enjoying printing, mounting, and cutting counters and craft projects? The PDF at $25 may be your best choice.

Do you want to get everything that is being printed? The $110 is the way to go.

Also: Options in between those two extremes which may/may not suit your needs.

For anyone wanting to know more about the stretch goals, we have posted a "stretch goal report" that outlines all the things:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sjgames/the-fantasy-trip-old-school-roleplaying/posts/2262946

That's over three dozen stretch goals already unlocked, 18 of which have already been fulfilled.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1052395There are no hexes in fantasy!!!

No sir! My fantasy is made of hexes!

Quote from: philreed;1052832It depends on your level of DIYness.

* $25 - PDF. You'll get all of the Legacy Edition content, plus the Companion, but as digital files. You have to print/construct your own maps and counters and supply your own dice.

* $30 - The PDF + you get physical copies of the Melee and Wizard microgames. These each include a map and counters.

* $60 - PDF + Legacy Edition, which includes Melee and Wizard. You'll get megahex die-cut sheets, two solitaire adventures with counters, a GM screen.

* $110 - PDF + Legacy Edition + two playmats + a hardcover of the 160-page In the Labyrinth book (which is included as a softcover in the Legacy Edition box, so you would have two copies), as well as a softcover of the Companion book.

Do you enjoying printing, mounting, and cutting counters and craft projects? The PDF at $25 may be your best choice.

Do you want to get everything that is being printed? The $110 is the way to go.

Also: Options in between those two extremes which may/may not suit your needs.

So the $30 includes ALL the PDFs? So for $5 more plus shipping we get two boxed games (so get a bunch of counters which is the most significant craft project...)? Sounds like a deal.

Frank

Quote from: ffilz;1052865So the $30 includes ALL the PDFs? So for $5 more plus shipping we get two boxed games (so get a bunch of counters which is the most significant craft project...)? Sounds like a deal.

Yep. The main page lists the $30 Melee/Wizard option as including the Legacy Edition PDF, which is all the content.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I'm still confused.  How does In the Labyrinth relate to the "complete" rules of Legacy Edition?  "Legacy" is the new edition, and "Labyrinth" is the old rulebook, included for compleatists?  Maybe?

I still don't know what the lowest/cheapest tier is for the complete game.  I read the reward levels before I first posted, so restating those reward levels doesn't help, I'm telling you this whole thing is pretty cryptic for someone with no previous exposure.  Edit:  I mean, I understand $25 is a playable game minus physical counters and hex maps, but then I don't understand why there are other "rules" available, and if I'm going to want them eventually anyway.

Quote from: Dave R;1052886I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I'm still confused.  How does In the Labyrinth relate to the "complete" rules of Legacy Edition?  "Legacy" is the new edition, and "Labyrinth" is the old rulebook, included for compleatists?  Maybe?

The game is three parts:

* Melee - Bash things with your sword, tactical combat game.
* Wizard - Blast things with your spells, tactical combat game.
* In the Labyrinth, the roleplaying rules and setting, including the Advanced Melee and Advanced Wizard rules.

You can play Melee or Wizard by themselves, as skirmish games, or combine them. Or, if you wish, combine all three for roleplaying.

Does that help?

I think one of the great features of TFT is the subtle tactical nuances of its hex based wargame-like play.  So I understand theater of the mind people not really digging it or understanding what the hype is all about.  That said, I like HOW and Raedwald, and think TFT stands up on its own as a very solid rules-lite RPG even without the hexes.  Basically, if you like tactical wargame in your RPG, TFT is a great game, if you don't then it is still a good rule-lite rpg.

Quote from: Dave R;1052886I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I'm still confused.  How does In the Labyrinth relate to the "complete" rules of Legacy Edition?  "Legacy" is the new edition, and "Labyrinth" is the old rulebook, included for compleatists?  Maybe?

I still don't know what the lowest/cheapest tier is for the complete game.  I read the reward levels before I first posted, so restating those reward levels doesn't help, I'm telling you this whole thing is pretty cryptic for someone with no previous exposure.  Edit:  I mean, I understand $25 is a playable game minus physical counters and hex maps, but then I don't understand why there are other "rules" available, and if I'm going to want them eventually anyway.

Pilreed covered it.  But to further clarify - TFT began as a boardgame, not as an RPG. The original game was Melee, and it was a mini-boardgame of tactical man to man combat.  Wizard came out next and it was a mini tactical boardgame of wizards and magic that was compatible with Melee.  Neither were RPGs, though they effectively made a combat system and magic system.  In the Labyrinth was a  book that combined the two into an RPG and included things like character development, monsters and adventuring.  Melee and Wizard were also republished in book form, without the maps and counters, as Advanced Melee and Advanced Wizard to create a more or less complete RPG.

Quote from: Kuroth;1052528Raedwald alone is reason to get Heroes and Other Worlds!  Extremely well done Weru.  I hope Jackson has reached out to the Brandons to perhaps write an adventure or supplement for Fantasy Trip, rather than some other type of discussion with them.

I agree about Raedwald.  I finally got it this past Christmas and really like it.  I concur with the well done.  Still looking forward to Wulfwald too.

Quote from: Weru;1052530Thank you, I appreciate that. It would be great if SJG published some of Christopher's HOW stuff. Chris is very passionate about TFT, has championed it via HOW throughout the wilderness years, does good work, and is an all round top bloke and great to work with. A real gent.

He also did the solo adventure Wolves on the Rhine for Dark City Games.