Quote from: Spinachcat;1146927360 mobility is key to dodging and defense. There is no way I am equal at dodging and parrying from a seated position as I am from a standing position with the option to move in any direction at will.

What are you talking about? There's even wheelchair parkour!
[video=youtube;8OLlx0vw9ks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OLlx0vw9ks[/youtube]

LOL Pat!

That was a darkly humorous video showing how the world isn't wheelchair accessible. Kudos for them calling it "wheelchair parkour." And yes, it proves the point harshly about how wheelchairs don't make the slightest possible sense in a pre-modern setting, nor in any natural environ.

Here's a wheelchair bound athlete. He races and shows how to handle stairs. Look at the strength required and the sound made. He's got a mighty attitude, but unless he has open flat terrain to race forward on quickly, he's got no

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146944LOL Pat!

That was a darkly humorous video showing how the world isn't wheelchair accessible. Kudos for them calling it "wheelchair parkour." And yes, it proves the point harshly about how wheelchairs don't make the slightest possible sense in a pre-modern setting, nor in any natural environ.

Here's a wheelchair bound athlete. He races and shows how to handle stairs. Look at the strength required and the sound made. He's got a mighty attitude, but unless he has open flat terrain to race forward on quickly, he's got no

Greetings!

Right! But some handicapped guy in a wheelchair is going to survive and be a badass in an adventuring team exploring some monster-filled dungeon!

It's some woke snowflake fetishizing of handicapped people. That's what it all is down deep. It's pathetic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Batman;1146922Well I have to say, this whole threat got me chuckling. Seriously, people are legitimately upset over a magic wheelchair in D&D?

Its not the wheelchair that is the problem really.

Its how its executed, and who is doing it, and why.

I think making it a mary-sue magic wheelchair just kinda added salt to the wound.

And as said. Take note that several of us have suggested better ways to pull it off and why the concept can work. I've got a whole thread on the subject and various insights from the handicapped side of the fence and why we find stuff like this annoying. Especially when invariably its followed by someone proclaiming for us that anything else like you know, an actual cure, is BAD!

And for me this is iteration 3 of this nonesense. And the worst so far.

I'm honestly surprised that this topic is getting as much attention as it has. I figured that the most likely response would have been to just ignore it and just deal with it if the unlikely event of someone bringing this up at a table really happens. Instead, it seems that a lot of people got triggered by a magic wheelchair and have to REEEE about it.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1146949I'm honestly surprised that this topic is getting as much attention as it has. I figured that the most likely response would have been to just ignore it and just deal with it if the unlikely event of someone bringing this up at a table really happens. Instead, it seems that a lot of people got triggered by a magic wheelchair and have to REEEE about it.

Its the inevitible pushback as people get ever more tired of this and other "diversity" grifting at the expense of real people.

As noted elsewhere. There wouldnt be any pushback if any of this was done right and honestly.

And its infesting board games too. Over on BGG a designer doing a time travel historical game was told he could not have Washington in the game as thats racist as Washington kept slaves. Then someone on the fora told him to hire a "sensitivity consultant".

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146927I haven't analyzed all the posts, but I haven't seen anyone upset over the "magic wheelchair" as a concept.

The problem isn't the magic wheelchair. It's the claim that disabled PCs have to be accommodated and not penalized in any meaningful manner. For me, the demand for "disability as cosmetic issue" is particularly galling because it reeks of virtue signalling.

Who's claiming that disabled PCs HAVE to be accommodated to? Like, where was that ever written by anyone at WotC that people must be allowed to play these crippled PCs and that you have to have all these widgets that let them shine? Every DMG I've own (four editions worth) all say you can run the game how you, the DM, like and to tailor the game how you see fit. Use or don't use a powered Wheelchair. Also, because something it made to cater to a group of people that isn't majority doesn't = virtue signalling. Honestly, this claim has been overused so much that it pretty much equates to "get off my lawn." Honestly, no one cares.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146927360 mobility is key to dodging and defense. There is no way I am equal at dodging and parrying from a seated position as I am from a standing position with the option to move in any direction at will. The idea that a wheelchair, blindness, deafness, etc MUST NOT have penalties (because of fee-fees) is idiotic, and the demand that any PC beginning with these disabilities must be instantly equipped with disability-negating magic (instead of ACTUAL HEALING) screams of a sexual fetish.

Again, no one's begging to have all of these disability-negating effects. Hell I remember waay back when people wanted to do the whole "blind-monk" warrior thing and instead of sight it was blind-sense out so many feet, like some Dare-Devil wanna be. That doesn't mean they have some odd sexual fetish (a really odd and....quite disturbing way of thinking to boot) just because  they want to explore a different aspect of role-playing. Do I think this wheel-chair is a bit much, sure absolutely. But that's a mechanical issue, not a concept issue IMO.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146927Considering the nipples on the Batsuit and the tight armor-spandex around the ass, we pretty much assume "panties in a bunch" is your namesake's default condition.

Whoa whoa - hold on now, it's a poly-carbonate / leather mesh that fits nicely and never "bunches", unless it's a thing Selina and I are trying.

We won't discuss Joel Schumacher though......

Quote from: Omega;1146947Its not the wheelchair that is the problem really.

Its how its executed, and who is doing it, and why.

You're possibly under the incorrect assumption that I really give a rats-ass who or why they're doing it. I simply don't. It's a small thing on the internet among thousands of related stuff on the internet. Use it. Don't. It really doesn't matter. What I found funny is just how much people really do care about something that A) will most likely NEVER affect their game and B) wouldn't probably allow anyways should it attempt to be brought in.

Quote from: Omega;1146947I think making it a mary-sue magic wheelchair just kinda added salt to the wound.

Oh, that changes everything! I mean, we can't have mary-sues in D&D! That's preposterous!!

Quote from: Omega;1146947And as said. Take note that several of us have suggested better ways to pull it off and why the concept can work. I've got a whole thread on the subject and various insights from the handicapped side of the fence and why we find stuff like this annoying. Especially when invariably its followed by someone proclaiming for us that anything else like you know, an actual cure, is BAD!

And for me this is iteration 3 of this nonesense. And the worst so far.

I don't think the person who made it, regardless of their own handicaps nor not, did it so that every disabled person out there would be forced or feel bad for not using it. They're just one person, just like other people who are disabled are their own person. No one's trying to be "Speaker" for an entire group of people, that's my take. And yea, it can work a lot of different ways, that's kinda the point and beauty of this game. The thread you made works great! Yay!! The original powered wheelchair might work great for others..yay!! Use what you like, or don't. No WotC Gestapo is rolling into your house to verify the correct ratio of diversity, lol.

Quote from: SHARK;1146936Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! If any character in my campaign wants to begin the game being severely disabled, they are going to suffer. Even a somewhat lesser disability like missing one arm, one ear, or one eye is going to have significant penalties. No balancing, no special goodies provided to them to compensate--NO. They get to suffer.

Such characters get to suffer and endure, and learn of the glories of humility, and come face to face with just how limited they are.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What's a special goody and what do you mean by provided? If a PC gets his hand cut off and then in the next adventure they finds the Hand of Vecna, will you say "oh no, you can't use that, that would balance out your missing hand!"? What if the PCs already have a flying carpet, and then someone makes a new character (maybe their previous one died) and gets the idea to make a paraplegic wizard who travels about on the carpet, would you then demand the carpet get deleted in order to not counterbalance the PCs paraplegia?

Quote from: Batman;1146962You're possibly under the incorrect assumption that I really give a rats-ass who or why they're doing it. I simply don't.

You're possibly under the incorrect assumption that your willfully uniformed opinion is important here to anyone. If you can't be bothered to read what the people you're criticizing are actually talking about then what worth is your moronic babbling to anyone? You're not arguing against what people are actually saying. You're just venting at us like we're your therapists and your imaginary ravings are supposed to matter to us?

Go take your meds, Batboy.

Quote from: Batman;1146962I don't think the person who made it, regardless of their own handicaps nor not, did it so that every disabled person out there would be forced or feel bad for not using it. They're just one person, just like other people who are disabled are their own person. No one's trying to be "Speaker" for an entire group of people, that's my take.

Given that she's attacked folks who are legitimate wheelchair users, accusing them of being "ableist" for criticizing her shitty ideas, I'm going to go ahead and say you're off base on this one.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1146982You're possibly under the incorrect assumption that your willfully uniformed opinion is important here to anyone. If you can't be bothered to read what the people you're criticizing are actually talking about then what worth is your moronic babbling to anyone?

In the 22/23 pages of this thread, it's mostly people going back and forth complaining about how someone made a homebrewed thing that represents the possibility of having a wheelchair bound character and still, somehow, be applicable to dangerous life of adventuring. Not that the concept is bad -per se- but because the creator (who's name I forget) is bad because she's championing a cause she doesn't apparently belong to (I didn't bother to verify her actual disabilities - fictional or real and one wasn't provided here) and then she apparently called people bad for either not liking her idea or because it's some white-knighting or other some such dog-whistle word. This lends itself, to me in my uninformed opinion, that people are mad because they feel this is another SJW push at that terrible word representation! or *gasp* diversity and it's particularly damning since the greater disabled community of D&D players don't agree with the concept of Powered Wheelchairs (though, I'm guessing the poll is still out on that or have they surveyed all of them?).  

To sum up: Person made a thing about a small group of people, and because they're possibly NOT of that that same group AND argued against those who were opposed to the idea the thing and that person are bad, and bad for the gaming population and genre as a whole. Did I get that right?  

Quote from: VisionStorm;1146982You're not arguing against what people are actually saying.

Funny, I didn't really thing I was "arguing" with anything, more of a generalized observation which cause a brief sense of humor for me. I stated that I was a bit amazed (and perplexed) as to why people were so mad about something that would never grace their gaming table. Even with the usual SJW-hate and vitriol that one grows accustomed to seeing here, it really only made me laugh a bit more. Still, a portion still seem to be very upset by the notion that a thing is made for _insert wrong reason_ (citation?) and carry on for 23 pages about it.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1146982You're just venting at us like we're your therapists and your imaginary ravings are supposed to matter to us?

Go take your meds, Batboy.

I didn't feel it came off as a "vent", but you really can't show emotion via simple text.

And I have taken them, thank you for your concern.

Edit: forgot to note that I understand this is just a continuation of frustration towards the direction this particular game is taking in regards to the push for inclusiveness, much like we saw with the changing of Orcs and Dark Elves and the game ovary remova/l change to how ability scores are set.

Still, even with those changes becoming actual things in WotC products, I'm still not sure why people are upset? I consider myself a pretty left-progressive person but I have no intention of changing the way in which these races are reacted to in my games.

Quote from: kythri;1146992Given that she's attacked folks who are legitimate wheelchair users, accusing them of being "ableist" for criticizing her shitty ideas, I'm going to go ahead and say you're off base on this one.

Is there a source for this?

Quote from: Batman;1146996Still, even with those changes becoming actual things in WotC products, I'm still not sure why people are upset? I consider myself a pretty left-progressive person but I have no intention of changing the way in which these races are reacted to in my games.

Here's why people are upset.

WotC is the 500 lb gorilla of the RPG industry. As they "normalize" more and more of the left-progressive freakshow into the hobby, it becomes the de facto baseline of the hobby that other publishers will adhere to, and will shape the expectations of players.

This is already playing out on Boardgame Geek as has been pointed out repeatedly, as they are the 500 lb gorilla of the boardgame hobby. Game designers are AFRAID to upset the BGG mob in fear of losing their livelihood.

WotC, like all coastal elites, believe SJWs are not just the way, truth and the light, but also make up the majority of the fanbase - especially because the WotC scum live on Twatter where the SJWs scream the loudest, thus make up the entirety of their world.

Leftists have openly preached "never let a crisis go to waste", and in 2020 we're seeing that played out across our lives on many battlefronts, and unfortunately, our hobby is one of those. So last month it was "Orcs are Blacks Peoples!" and this month is "Wheelchair Accessible Dungeons!", and of course, any dissent is met with the usual screeching on Twatter.

Thus, it's approaching the "one thin wafer" moment.  

[video=youtube;uRpt4a6H99c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpt4a6H99c[/youtube]

Quote from: HappyDaze;1146949I'm honestly surprised that this topic is getting as much attention as it has. I figured that the most likely response would have been to just ignore it and just deal with it if the unlikely event of someone bringing this up at a table really happens. Instead, it seems that a lot of people got triggered by a magic wheelchair and have to REEEE about it.

No because it is more Neo-Marxist bullshit that's why no go burn something down.