Quote from: Chris24601;1146387A lot of just comes down to one of the trade-offs for our insane endurance is we traded a lot of our fast-twitch muscles (good for explosive force like sprinting or smacking things really hard) for slow-twitch ones (good for sustained activity like long-distance running). The proportions of them in humans are MUCH higher than any other animal species on Earth.

There's a gene that chimps have, ACTN3, which is related to the different kinds of muscle fibers. Humans also have it, though in some people it's turned off. Top sprinters tend to have two working versions of the gene, while top marathon runners tend to have it turned off entirely.

Edit: Another way of looking at human endurance is to measure the fastest animal over various distances. The cheetah wins the sprint, but humans eventually catch up and pass all the other animals. In between are various animals, most notably the pronghorn. Which is one of the fastest animals in the world, but has far more endurance than the cheetah, and is able to sustain a decent percentage of its top speed for hours.

The pronghorn is a curiosity, because it's insanely overengineered for its current environment, which has no predators that have even a snowball's chance in hell of catching it. But it evolved running from the giant cheetahs[1] of North American (Miracinonyx), though they died out about 12,000 years ago, leaving the pronghorn as a super-fast curiosity. There are some rewilding proposals that suggest importing the cheetah to North America, to bring back that dynamic.

[1] Technically, Miracinonyx is not a cheetah. It's more closely related to the puma than the African cat. They were definitely cheetah-like, but that's an example of convergent evolution, not descent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4858926/

Quote from: SHARK;1146341As I mentioned several times now, I have a game world that is distinctly harsh and brutal, and there are not a lot of doodads and tech and whatever around to help severely handicapped characters. Characters that are blind, strapped to wheelchairs, or otherwise suffering from severe handicaps simply do not fit well within an Adventuring team, and would likely die soon and swiftly if they were to even try. Most would never even be accepted into an adventuring team, as the suggestion is ridiculous. Normal adventurers would seek to recruit team members that are physically mobile, rugged, and healthy. Most adventurers do not want to be accompanied by weak, helpless characters that have a myriad of handicaps and limitations. Such handicapped people would most likely be slaughtered swiftly out in the wilderness and eaten by monsters.

Except that you already admitted that disabled characters *can* be powerful in your world because of magic -- you just called them "corner cases".

Let me put it this way --

I'm not running D&D currently, but the last full campaign that I ran was in an extremely harsh and unforgiving world. It was a world undergoing an apocalypse as huge numbers of dragons were sweeping over the surface of the world. Within the game world, the PCs would recruit powerful characters to stand with them to protect the last survivors of civilization. If a player had wanted to play a "corner case" of a powerful, strong character that had a disability, then I would let them. If I did so, then that character would be subjected to all of the same rigor as the others, and they would be overall the equal of the other PCs. Such characters are possible in the world, so I would allow them to be played as a PC.

Quote from: jhkim;1146399Except that you already admitted that disabled characters *can* be powerful in your world because of magic -- you just called them "corner cases".

Let me put it this way --

I'm not running D&D currently, but the last full campaign that I ran was in an extremely harsh and unforgiving world. It was a world undergoing an apocalypse as huge numbers of dragons were sweeping over the surface of the world. Within the game world, the PCs would recruit powerful characters to stand with them to protect the last survivors of civilization. If a player had wanted to play a "corner case" of a powerful, strong character that had a disability, then I would let them. If I did so, then that character would be subjected to all of the same rigor as the others, and they would be overall the equal of the other PCs. Such characters are possible in the world, so I would allow them to be played as a PC.

Greetings!

In my campaign, Players are of course free to choose to create a handicapped character. They are not however, "equal". They must endure the challenges and suffering which go along with whatever disability or condition they have. In my campaigns, Player characters do not start out as "powerful, strong" characters. They start out as normal humans, or whatever race they are. If they survive, and are smart, they can hope to someday become a powerful character. Handicapped characters have enormous disadvantages, and life in a harsh and brutal world is even more harsh and brutal for handicapped characters.

There is no coddling, no special perks, no special abilities.

There is no mercy.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jhkimI'm not running D&D currently, but the last full campaign that I ran was in an extremely harsh and unforgiving world. It was a world undergoing an apocalypse as huge numbers of dragons were sweeping over the surface of the world. Within the game world, the PCs would recruit powerful characters to stand with them to protect the last survivors of civilization. If a player had wanted to play a "corner case" of a powerful, strong character that had a disability, then I would let them. If I did so, then that character would be subjected to all of the same rigor as the others, and they would be overall the equal of the other PCs. Such characters are possible in the world, so I would allow them to be played as a PC.

Quote from: SHARK;1146409In my campaign, Players are of course free to choose to create a handicapped character. They are not however, "equal". They must endure the challenges and suffering which go along with whatever disability or condition they have. In my campaigns, Player characters do not start out as "powerful, strong" characters. They start out as normal humans, or whatever race they are. If they survive, and are smart, they can hope to someday become a powerful character. Handicapped characters have enormous disadvantages, and life in a harsh and brutal world is even more harsh and brutal for handicapped characters.

The point about "powerful" seems like wordplay to me. My point is that I have the PCs start out as roughly equal in power and strength. I don't, for example, have one PC start out as an average peasant and another PC start out as the equivalent of a SEAL team member (like a healthy, strong noble knight trained for combat).  Realistically, nobles were healthier, stronger, and better trained than peasants. But starting PCs are individuals who aren't going to reflect that average. A starting PC who comes from a poor background will be an exceptional individual, not an average peasant. They'll be roughly equal in ability to a starting PC from a rich background.

For me, the challenges are what happens *after* play starts. Character creation isn't a competition. I know in some games, the players game and try to come up with the most powerful option, and that's part of the game. I don't run things that way. For example, if a player finds a loophole in the rules that is overpowered, then I'll adjust things to make them more balanced. If a player asks for an option that isn't in the rules as written (like a different race or background), then I'll work with them and come up with an option that is roughly equal power.

I just read the combat wheelchair PDF.

I almost didn't finish the document after reading the first Q&A...

""But it can float up and down stairs! Isn't that unfair?"
No, unless you plan on making all the able bodied characters
at level 1 also remain on ground floors only and never go up
and down stairs and into dungeons. If you were planning on
doing that then that's fair."

I realized the person writing the answer was an asshole.

Now I could not find any disadvantages at all in using it.  
Meaning there's no reason non-disabled characters wouldn't pick it as equipment as well.
What a joke.

Quote from: DocJones;1146462I just read the combat wheelchair PDF.

I almost didn't finish the document after reading the first Q&A...

""But it can float up and down stairs! Isn't that unfair?"
No, unless you plan on making all the able bodied characters
at level 1 also remain on ground floors only and never go up
and down stairs and into dungeons. If you were planning on
doing that then that's fair."

I realized the person writing the answer was an asshole.

Now I could not find any disadvantages at all in using it.  
Meaning there's no reason non-disabled characters wouldn't pick it as equipment as well.
What a joke.

Ooooo... so here we go, if you have someone that wants one, add it to the campaign.  I've got a different angle.  Since the quasi-official one is BETTER than being 'abled'...

Anyone familiar with the Potsdam Giants?

So here you go:  You've got a crazy-ass short monarch who wants an elite 'calvary' unit, but he's self-conscious so wants to look them in the eye.  He has been buying up all the 'superchairs' that he can get his hands on, but its not enough.  

He also wants his soldiers to be able to fight dismounted, so he's not -actually- hiring/recruiting/press ganging people that 'need' the chairs, he's having them killed and stealing the chairs.

Hell, everyone would want one.  Nobles would all have them.  That orc chief?  He likes his magic elevator.

Quote from: DocJones;1146462I just read the combat wheelchair PDF.

I almost didn't finish the document after reading the first Q&A...

""But it can float up and down stairs! Isn't that unfair?"
No, unless you plan on making all the able bodied characters
at level 1 also remain on ground floors only and never go up
and down stairs and into dungeons. If you were planning on
doing that then that's fair."

I realized the person writing the answer was an asshole.

Now I could not find any disadvantages at all in using it.  
Meaning there's no reason non-disabled characters wouldn't pick it as equipment as well.
What a joke.

This reminds me of my theory about why we find so many folks like this in the hobby.  They already live in a fantasy world, so RPGs are just the next logical step.

I agree with jhkim in general about disabled characters in RPGs, especially something like D&D. Sure, the precise details will differ, but in most D&D settings it is not at all beyond the realm of possibility or even probability to get hold of a magical replacement for a lost hand or eye (the X of Vecna have been around for decades in the game at this point), or just be good enough at something else that putting up with the disability is worth it. I'd almost certainly rather have a level 16 Wizard who can't walk on my team than replace him with a level 5 Wizard who is more physically fit. At some point you reach a level where you simply can't shop around for someone else with the same level of skill, you've got one option and that is it.

But one thing that bugs me about the way some people talk about the combat wheelchair or similar things is representation. Like "well, I'm X and if X isn't represented in the game then that is clearly bad". I have a very common disability, nearsightedness. I'm also somewhat overweight. Why would I want to play that in an escapist game? If we're playing some modern murder mystery or Call of Cthulhu maybe that could be fun, but I would never feel like I was missing something if I couldn't play an overweight guy with glasses in D&D. Even if I wanted to play some sort of wish fulfillment version of myself rather than try to play a completely different character, why would that wish fulfillment version still have bad eyes and an extra 20 kg of fat?

Quote from: Blankman;1146527Even if I wanted to play some sort of wish fulfillment version of myself rather than try to play a completely different character, why would that wish fulfillment version still have bad eyes and an extra 20 kg of fat?

You would be called a bad person or ableist for wanting to play a better version of yourself. I feel the same way and suffer the same issues you have (bad eyesight and being overweight). Why would I want to make a character with the same issues I have in real life. I play D&D to escape reality not live reality.

Quote from: DocJones;1146462I just read the combat wheelchair PDF.

I almost didn't finish the document after reading the first Q&A...

""But it can float up and down stairs! Isn't that unfair?"
No, unless you plan on making all the able bodied characters
at level 1 also remain on ground floors only and never go up
and down stairs and into dungeons. If you were planning on
doing that then that's fair."

I realized the person writing the answer was an asshole.

Now I could not find any disadvantages at all in using it.  
Meaning there's no reason non-disabled characters wouldn't pick it as equipment as well.
What a joke.

https://i.imgur.com/MA3rMjc.gif

Quote from: DocJones;1146462I just read the combat wheelchair PDF.

I almost didn't finish the document after reading the first Q&A...

""But it can float up and down stairs! Isn't that unfair?"
No, unless you plan on making all the able bodied characters
at level 1 also remain on ground floors only and never go up
and down stairs and into dungeons. If you were planning on
doing that then that's fair."

I realized the person writing the answer was an asshole.

Now I could not find any disadvantages at all in using it.  
Meaning there's no reason non-disabled characters wouldn't pick it as equipment as well.
What a joke.

Are you familiar with the lore around beholders and how they build their lairs? Specifically, they don't bother with stairs. Or ladders. Just circular shafts they can go up and down in.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146543Are you familiar with the lore around beholders and how they build their lairs? Specifically, they don't bother with stairs. Or ladders. Just circular shafts they can go up and down in.

That's why my wheelchair fires grappling hooks from the arm-mounted crossbows, duh.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146543Are you familiar with the lore around beholders and how they build their lairs? Specifically, they don't bother with stairs. Or ladders. Just circular shafts they can go up and down in.

Well apparently these wheelchairs have "beacon stones" which allow them to float or actually move the chair in any direction.
The chairs are pretty much indestructible requiring 3 critical hits to break, although they come with a set of tinkers tools so the owner can  immediately repair them.
Dispel magic doesn't work on the "beacon stones" either and the stones only work for their owner.
It's the best magic item since Baba Yagas hut. j/k

Not to mention all the addons.
I think I'll allow them but they'll cost 50,000 GP.

It's not like devices that can function similarly to wheelchairs don't already exist in D&D either. Flying carpets and broomsticks are a staple of fantasy, and the apparatus of Kwalish is there in both my AD&D 2e DMG and the 5e one. 5e also has the Saddle of the Cavalier (you can never be dismounted unwillingly if sitting in it, perfect if you can go most places on a mount), wings of flying, winged boots and probably more mobility enhancing stuff I'm not thinking of right now. Having an object be shaped like an actual modern wheelchair is much more weird than simply having a magical object that offsets not being able to walk.

Quote from: Blankman;1146557It's not like devices that can function similarly to wheelchairs don't already exist in D&D either. Flying carpets and broomsticks are a staple of fantasy, and the apparatus of Kwalish is there in both my AD&D 2e DMG and the 5e one. 5e also has the Saddle of the Cavalier (you can never be dismounted unwillingly if sitting in it, perfect if you can go most places on a mount), wings of flying, winged boots and probably more mobility enhancing stuff I'm not thinking of right now. Having an object be shaped like an actual modern wheelchair is much more weird than simply having a magical object that offsets not being able to walk.

This is true, but all of those items are quite out of reach for 1st level characters.  In order for 1st level disabled characters to get one of these magical items, your D&D world would have to implement social justice "equity", where characters of privilege would have to pay for these items to give to 1st level adventurers.

Next thing you know, 1st level half-orc fighters will be demanding vorpal blades in reparations for years of oppression.