Quote from: The Exploited.;1146107This... I mean, what has Dare Devil a super, got to do with a fantasy D&D? I've not read DD for years, but to my recollection he was far superior to someone with sight when in came to hand to hand combat.

Well, in 5e (and 4e) fantasy D&D, it really plays out more like fantasy supers than it does like a gritty fantasy game (e.g., WFRP). I'm sure somewhere out there is a third-party race with senses like DareDevil...mostly just Blindsight and Advantage on Perception by 5e rules.

Quote from: SHARK;1146066Greetings!

I don't care about *DareDevil*. I don't have crazy, superhero characters typically in my games. Handicapped characters--as I've mentioned several times now--are in fact, sans special magic and tech--entirely liabilities. They get a glass eye, a metal claw hand--that's about it. Anything more severe, they're fucked. There's no magic gizmos for them, there's no special accommodations for them. They can't keep up, and endure a harsh, brutal world. They have so many limitations and restrictions, they are done. How does that not make sense? Most adventuring teams expect to run, swim, climb, dig, jump across chasms, scale mountain cliffs, rappel down cliffsides, quickly move along narrow ledges, kick in doors, kick ass and take names.

Characters that are blind, strapped to wheelchairs, or otherwise suffer under severe handicaps are generally fucked, and would typically be swiftly killed and eaten. To avoid that fate, most are simply retired to somewhere safe, and a new character is rolled up that is strong, healthy, and physically rugged, flexible, and mobile.

I don't tend to "balance" anything out. In my campaigns, there is no sympathy, no coddling, no special treatment. It is a harsh and brutal world. They either keep up, or they get eaten and slaughtered. To survive, they must stay back in the town or city, with the women, the kiddies, and the old people, protected by strong walls and strong men. Severely handicapped characters are fucked. They have been severely crippled, and do good to just survive in a quiet, safe place far from danger and stress.

And the whole idea of *Daredevil* *Laughing* Daredevil doesn't exist in my campaigns, nor are there "superhero" type characters. A blind character is a total liability. They're BLIND. They don't get special powers for being blind. They get to live in a garden villa somewhere like assisted living, with teenaged girls to lead them around and cook for them.

I note that Omega, Exploited, GeekyBugle, Spinachcat, and many others seem to understand what I'm saying quite well.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Again, I reference the Pathfinder oracle if people are that gods-be-damned desperate to play a 'disabled' PC. At least they'll get divine spellcasting out of it, but some of the oracular curses are -brutal-. Clouded vision makes your oracle unable to target enemies beyond six squares, for example.

This actually came up in a campaign where the oracle was a relatively new class for both players and GM, and after the first time the oracle's blindness caused some problems, the GM took pity and let the player swap it out for speaking in tongues instead.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146132Again, I reference the Pathfinder oracle if people are that gods-be-damned desperate to play a 'disabled' PC. At least they'll get divine spellcasting out of it, but some of the oracular curses are -brutal-.

So it sounds like Pathfinder oracles as written can be underpowered. I don't see that this shows anything about the general case. It would be trivial to change the rules so that Pathfinder oracles are overpowered instead, for example - and there is therefore some set at which they are balanced.

It's not like Pathfinder oracles are the only option for disabled PC. Coming from decades of playing GURPS, HERO, and other RPGs with similar mechanics for character weaknesses, I've had a lot of PCs with various disabilities.

Quote from: Omega;1146010Taking a wheelchair into a dungeon, makes about as much sense as taking an elephant into one. Just asking for something to go wrong.


Even before getting to the dungeon there's that not so little problem of wilderness travel.

Exactly.

All this "wheelchair into a dungeon" nonsense is exactly that. Just a big goof.

I think what's at least thought provoking about Pundit's video isn't anything about the wheelchair, but his assertion that most of these things aren't really about the thing they ostensibly say they're about.

Quote from: The Exploited.;1146107Retro fixing a scenario is just so fucking corporate.

If just one person complains on Twatter, WotC will "fix" the book and give you the chance to buy it twice!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146208If just one person complains on Twatter, WotC will "fix" the book and give you the chance to buy it twice!

Yeah, that's very true...

What really pisses me off, is that it's usually literally one or two gimps as you said, and the corporates go into armageddon mode. Stupid fucks!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146208If just one person complains on Twatter, WotC will "fix" the book and give you the chance to buy it twice!

It's too bad companies don't move that fast to incorporate needed errata (although WotC is better than average on that).

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1146188I think what's at least thought provoking about Pundit's video isn't anything about the wheelchair, but his assertion that most of these things aren't really about the thing they ostensibly say they're about.

Thats because half the time. They arent. Its tokenism as some call it and its been around in force since the 90s iteration of this, but started gaining traction in the 70s iteration of this nonesense.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1146213It's too bad companies don't move that fast to incorporate needed errata (although WotC is better than average on that).

Surprisingly good in fact. Theyve been quietly updating the books every few print runs with fixes.

Quote from: The Exploited.;1146211Yeah, that's very true...

What really pisses me off, is that it's usually literally one or two gimps as you said, and the corporates go into armageddon mode. Stupid fucks!

That's the megaphone effect of social media. It LOOKS like thousands of people are supporting them when in reality it's a bare handful.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146222That's the megaphone effect of social media. It LOOKS like thousands of people are supporting them when in reality it's a bare handful.

Not just that, there are dedicated troll farms for it.

Though not a game specific example, a relevant anecdote is that when Rush Limbaugh was being subjected to a cancel campaign where thousands of messages a day were flooding his sponsors and stations, he paid to investigate the sources and discovered that the ENTIRE cancel campaign was just TEN people using bogus internet accounts to appear like thousands upon thousands of outraged listeners.

If you don't think tiny numbers of the perpetually outraged aren't doing the same thing in the field of RPGs (and entertainment in general) then you're delusional. They are the fringe of the fringe and see nothing wrong with using lies and distortions so long as "justice" is achieved. The biggest con they pull, amplified by the internet and a willing media, is to present themselves as the majority when they're probably 1% or less of a given population.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146222That's the megaphone effect of social media. It LOOKS like thousands of people are supporting them when in reality it's a bare handful.

Yeah mate, it was the same with the whole Oriental adventures debacle. A few posts from a single muppet and Wotc go all Chernobyl. It's pathetic... Because once it starts, who know where it will stop. That's the main reason I don't touch any of their products.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1145878Do you have links/data to back this up?

Twitter feed (twitter.com/mustangsart), Instagram (instagram.com/mustangsart) and other social media.  I gathered this information from going back and reading her posts before this all blew up.  She claims to have hEDS (hypermobile Ehler-Danlos Syndrome), and early posts discussion her "diagnosis" are clearly self-diagnosis, inasmuch as all of the complaints about her providers refusing to diagnose her to her satisfaction, and fishing for a provider who will diagnose her as she desires.  Her Instagram contains numerous pictures of her actively engaged in bipedal locomotion with groups of her friends to dispel any potential claims of her being in a wheelchair.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146222That's the megaphone effect of social media. It LOOKS like thousands of people are supporting them when in reality it's a bare handful.

That has an impact, but companies have always been risk averse. They rarely take a moral stand on issues, because their board has a legal duty to put the company's financial interests ahead of their personal ones. They tend to react strongly to bad press, and want to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, so they're easy to sway by activists.