The problem with the D&D "Combat Wheelchair" isn't that it's "unrealistic" (at least not in ren-faire fantasy like the Forgotten Realms), it's that it isn't really about ttrpg play at all.



[video=youtube_share;WcksUwZRyPc]https://youtu.be/WcksUwZRyPc[/youtube]

Agreed. Arguments for realism are a lost cause. I find people just gravitate to 'realism' as a talking point for some reason.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1145531The problem with the D&D "Combat Wheelchair" isn't that it's "unrealistic" (at least not in ren-faire fantasy like the Forgotten Realms), it's that it isn't really about ttrpg play at all.

Like most things, it's what you make with it rather than the motives of other people for being interested in the topic to begin with.

To me, wheelchairs in D&D is just an opportunity to get creative with a new concept.

It am thinking up spells that spellcasters would research to help a wheelchair get over difficult terrain, or lower it's weight so it can be more easily hoisted up a rope. I am imagining things a combat wheelchair with magic and machinery added to it might be able to do. I am imagining other magical and mundane modifications which could happen for other physical disabilities, like blindness or a missing limb. I am thinking if this kind of stuff can better allow for long-term injury to PCs due to incurable magical damage. I am imagining what kind of magical damage would be incurable such as curses, partial disintegration, disease, anti-magic attacks, etc.. I am considering if birth defects would "heal" only back to what they were originally, making healing spells ineffective for that kind of disability. I am going down all sorts of avenues of creation for this concept which I hadn't before.

You can dwell on the negative, you can fret over the motivations of other people who you will never know and never encounter at a game table. Or, you can focus on the cool stuff you can make with it. I'd rather do the later.

does the price of the wheelchair exceed the price for healing magic?

I demand magic pressure socks, a magic blood glucose reader, and a magic blood pressure cuff.  I demand them in the name of creativity and imagination!

Wheelchair of Levitation.

5 charges per day.

Quote from: Slipshot762;1145547does the price of the wheelchair exceed the price for healing magic?

Exactly.

Quote from: Mistwell;1145535Like most things, it's what you make with it rather than the motives of other people for being interested in the topic to begin with.

To me, wheelchairs in D&D is just an opportunity to get creative with a new concept.

It am thinking up spells that spellcasters would research to help a wheelchair get over difficult terrain, or lower it's weight so it can be more easily hoisted up a rope. I am imagining things a combat wheelchair with magic and machinery added to it might be able to do. I am imagining other magical and mundane modifications which could happen for other physical disabilities, like blindness or a missing limb. I am thinking if this kind of stuff can better allow for long-term injury to PCs due to incurable magical damage. I am imagining what kind of magical damage would be incurable such as curses, partial disintegration, disease, anti-magic attacks, etc.. I am considering if birth defects would "heal" only back to what they were originally, making healing spells ineffective for that kind of disability. I am going down all sorts of avenues of creation for this concept which I hadn't before.

You can dwell on the negative, you can fret over the motivations of other people who you will never know and never encounter at a game table. Or, you can focus on the cool stuff you can make with it. I'd rather do the later.

Including but not limited to Narrow passages that suddenly become less narrow to allow the +1 Combat Wheelchair to pass-thru, cobblestone roads suddenly as smooth as modern paved roads... In short Wheelchair accessible dungeons.

My answer is in another thread here.

Many people use "realism" when they mean "verisimilitude".

Realism is true to reality. Verisimilitude is the quality of appearing to be true or real.

AKA, there's no realism in comic books or movies based on comics, but there's verisimilitude in a good comic book movie as you feel the comic book has come to life.

Verisimilitude requires elements in a fiction to make sense within the known confines of that fiction. We know the tropes / traits of dungeons and combat with monsters, and +1 combat wheelchairs of representation can't mix with that without dumping enough magic to eliminate all aspects of the wheelchair.

But this D&D Twitter idiocy has nothing to do with gaming and everything to do with fetishism and virtue signalling. They've run out of white knighting ideas to save those poor non-white gamers, so now they're onto "saving" the disabled.

Next up, morbidly obese PCs can never suffer any penalties. 400lbs humans dodge just a quickly as 180lb humans, and of course, have equal endurance and equal outcomes in any athletic endeavor.

A person who is actually in a wheel chair wants to try and make something so they can have a fantasy hero version of themselves to adventure about in and it is all white knights and virtue signals and "not about ttrpg playing at all"  instead of letting them play the game in a way fun for them.

This is apparently worth a lot of time being varying degrees of upset about because they are doing things wrong.

I feel that the point isn't necessarily realism but the ability to give those bound by a wheelchair in real life an opportunity to forget real life and enjoy the game. One thing that I came to realize is that a large percentage of people that are avid gamers, do so to escape reality. When I started figuring that out it made me a bid depressed to be honest, because it almost makes you feel guilty of being a "normal" person by society's standards when there's so much suffering out there.

I'd be more inclined to suggest a custom built saddle and a well-trained donkey as a genuinely realistic way for a cripple to travel.

Make them someone who's profession doesn't depend upon physical prowess like a scribe, scholar, religious or, in fantasy, a wizard and you might even have an interesting character concept. Once you're able to cast a fireball or two into an enemy cavalry charge, few lords who'd employ a house wizard would particularly care that their particular wizard needs to be carried into position on the back of a beast.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145553Including but not limited to Narrow passages that suddenly become less narrow to allow the +1 Combat Wheelchair to pass-thru, cobblestone roads suddenly as smooth as modern paved roads... In short Wheelchair accessible dungeons.

Of course that would be a barrier. But then, you better not have a large sized monster anywhere on the other side of that narrow passageway. We already have the narrow passage issue with large sized PCs, and large pets/mounts/hirelings/allies. Not sure how this would be meaningfully different. Like the large PC, you're going to need a teleport spell or something else to get the larger PC through, whether it's based on their natural size or the chair or whatever.

As for cobblestone roads, I guess you didn't read what you quoted? It's literally the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Look you don't have to be into the idea. But it's OK that I am. It's inspiring my imagination about a new concept to me with D&D. Shit all over that inspiration if you like, but I think it can be cool stuff. And I don't give a shit about the motives of the people who introduced the idea or your motives for opposing it or the politics of it all or and of that shit when it comes to "I think this is a cool imaginative line of inquiry for my game".

Quote from: Mistwell;1145575Of course that would be a barrier. But then, you better not have a large sized monster anywhere on the other side of that narrow passageway. We already have the narrow passage issue with large sized PCs, and large pets/mounts/hirelings/allies. Not sure how this would be meaningfully different. Like the large PC, you're going to need a teleport spell or something else to get the larger PC through, whether it's based on their natural size or the chair or whatever.

As for cobblestone roads, I guess you didn't read what you quoted? It's literally the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Look you don't have to be into the idea. But it's OK that I am. It's inspiring my imagination about a new concept to me with D&D. Shit all over that inspiration if you like, but I think it can be cool stuff. And I don't give a shit about the motives of the people who introduced the idea or your motives for opposing it or the politics of it all or and of that shit when it comes to "I think this is a cool imaginative line of inquiry for my game".

Heal spells do exist, why would anyone need a wheelchair? It makes exactly zero sense, thought YOU would virtue signal your virtue by finding it inspiring. Good for you.