I think most people agree that a codified mechanic that forces the GM to allow the players some sort of direct control over the conduct of the game is a dividing line or a pretty big red flag. Its the kind of thing I was trying to get at in my other thread and certainly a point where my enjoyment drops.

Most of the recent discussion has been around the dividing line of a mechanic that the players can only engage with on an OOC level.

I've kinda decided I don't understand, I don't really get the division, and I am cool with the fact that Pundit doesn't seem to really hurt people if they disagree with him, which is fine by me.

If I put stuff in the wrong place I am sure he'll move it for me.

Now back to Dungeon Crawl Classics, and I *never* thought I'd say that.

Q: 'What RPGs are considered Storygames on this site?"

A: None. A game cannot be both an RPG and a Storygame on this site, so it is not possible! QED



-clash

Exactly.

Quote from: RPGPundit;670509Exactly.

Not even a little exactly as it completely fails to address the question via pettifoggary .

Quote from: TristramEvans;670665Not even a little exactly as it completely fails to address the question via pettifoggary .

No, it doesn't. Pundit's position* is that storygames are not RPGs. Your question is what RPGs are considered storygames on this site, which, if answered in any other way, admits that storygames are RPGs. This is not allowable because of Pundit's well-known position. Your question must be rephrased in such a way that it does not assume storygames are, in fact, RPGs, such as "What tabletop games are considered storygames on this site?"

*I do not agree with this position, but that is immaterial. This is Pundit's forum, not mine, and not yours.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;670698No, it doesn't. Pundit's position* is that storygames are not RPGs. Your question is what RPGs are considered storygames on this site, which, if answered in any other way, admits that storygames are RPGs. This is not allowable because of Pundit's well-known position. Your question must be rephrased in such a way that it does not assume storygames are, in fact, RPGs, such as "What tabletop games are considered storygames on this site?"

*I do not agree with this position, but that is immaterial. This is Pundit's forum, not mine, and not yours.

-clash

Let me put it like this, consider a person who does not play /read every RPG out there, and may have missed Rpgsite Rant xx so that I'm aware what games are 'storygames', and which meet the Pundits approval. In which case, lets then assume that when someone mentions Marvel Heroic Role-Playing Game they are in fact quoting the title of a printed book. Like, in English.

Anyhow, regardless I gave up on that thought after it met general disdain. Whatever, I thought it be nice for visitors or those of us that don't really understand some of the reasoning behind Pundit's declaration/condemnation/what-have-you, and thuswouldn't, for example, think twice about bringing up The One Ring in Rpgopen until randomnly hear another poster say it was declared a story game (and then another poster contradicted that and meanwhile Pundits calling another guy a terrorist for saying, basically, 'frell it, ignore him and post wherever you want. Let them clean up the mess. And there's the whole Storygamers are trying to destroy ganing' thing that frankly just baffles me. So yeah, honestly I'd just as soon discuss any RPG that is considered a storygame in disguise somewhere else and keep my discussions focused here on those games the RPG crowd here would find interest in talking about.

But I've come to two conclusions since starting this thread which change my views 1) nobody gives a crap about any of that stuff so maybe it was simply a stupid idea. In the words of Groucho Marx: "they can't all be winners." & 2) dissecting game systems by way of debating 'storygame' or 'narrative elements ' is fun, and since it allready starts in the 'other games section by default, its not a situation where I feel like I'm trolling or someone's going to point and yell "terrorist! Your trying to infiltrate this site with your devious attempts to undermine the hobby!" Because frankly I find these boards a breath of fresh air after rpgnet slided into whatever state its in now, moderated by trolls from Something Awful. So I do actually make attempts to you know, contribute to discussions about our shared hobby.