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Torchbearer: dungeon exploring and survival simulation

Started by silva, April 24, 2013, 07:54:04 PM

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The Ent

#75
April 25, 2013, 04:36:54 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;6492721) If Forge did not exist, we would need to invent it.

That's one of the best things I've seen posted this month, seriously.

gleichman

#76
April 25, 2013, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649271I just think it's funny that the effete snobs at RPGnet are enchanted by exactly the sort of thing they thought was repugnant last week.

I think it's rather clear that what that game does is significantly different mechanically than what D&D does. That they've rejected the D&D method and selected one of their own is the cause for the of disgust here- not the actual play.

Personally if I was to do it all, I'd rather do it their way instead of the OSR 'wave the fairy wand' and call it done method. Theirs almost sounds fun.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Black Vulmea

#77
April 25, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;649263The level of effete snobbery in this thread has reach such great heights that Al Gore called, he wants his schtick back.

Seriously, I had no awareness of this game before, but this asinine overreaction has piqued my interest.  If douche-bags are salivating this much to demonstrate their superiority over this product and everyone and thing involved with it, maybe it does have something to offer after all.
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

Black Vulmea

#78
April 25, 2013, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649271I just think it's funny that the effete snobs at RPGnet are enchanted by exactly the sort of thing they thought was repugnant last week.
*ding!*
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

The Ent

#79
April 25, 2013, 04:40:22 PM
To be honest? I might check Torchbearer out myself. Well if the skill/xp system is more intuitive than Burning Wheel's. Nowhere near believing I'd love or Even play it but - I'm a system junkie. :D

gleichman

#80
April 25, 2013, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;6492722) You use/used to despise Ron Edwards not because you disagree with him, but because he got there first and you can't forgive him that.

Oh I disgree with him. It just so happens that I also disagree with most of this entire board as well. I'm that excluded middle everyone talks about but fails to actually understand.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

crkrueger

#81
April 25, 2013, 04:46:53 PM
The thing that ixnays it for me is

1. No Lifepath system, the best thing from Burning Wheel.
2. The highly abtract and metagamey Phase System from Mouse Guard looks like it made it in.
3. The way the turns, lighting, resources, mental mechanics are shaping up, it looks like a game where anything that in something like Hero or Harnmaster would be somehow a simulation, in this game is abstracted for the purposes of narrative metagame.

In other words, it's not a game where you roleplay a dungeoncrawler, it's a narrative game about dungeoncrawlers.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Mistwell

#82
April 25, 2013, 04:47:22 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;649272You know Mistwell, for the Lady of the Lake to appear and allow you to drink from the Holy Grail of Gilles de Breton, you need to ride out on the actual quest. "Monsters" defeated on the Internet don't count for the Quest, I'm afraid.


You couldn't even be bothered to find one wearing entirely white armor? Pshaw.  Come on man.  Here, these are a bit better:

Rincewind1

#83
April 25, 2013, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: gleichman;649281Oh I disgree with him. It just so happens that I also disagree with most of this entire board as well. I'm that excluded middle everyone talks about but fails to actually understand.

Going by your posts:

You are no middle.

You are an extremist as well, and from what I remember, quite an elitist (now you remark how snobby we are, but you act quite snobbier than we do in 99% of your posts), but I'll give you that - you disagree with him quite a lot. But I have a glaring notion that you'd reach similar conclusions as he did, just from a different path. So what you represent is neither A nor B, but C. But not the middle. A man who speaks about the absolute value of miniatures and the importance of literature emulation, is not the middle.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

The Ent

#84
April 25, 2013, 04:49:21 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;649282The thing that ixnays it for me is

1. No Lifepath system, the best thing from Burning Wheel.
2. The highly abtract and metagamey Phase System from Mouse Guard looks like it made it in.
3. The way the turns, lighting, resources, mental mechanics are shaping up, it looks like a game where anything that in something like Hero or Harnmaster would be somehow a simulation, in this game is abstracted for the purposes of narrative metagame.

In other words, it's not a game where you roleplay a dungeoncrawler, it's a narrative game about dungeoncrawlers.



Well yeah those are strikes against it.

A kinda meta game about dungeoncrawlers could be fun mind, but only as a break from other Games (like once a Year or something).

Mistwell

#85
April 25, 2013, 04:56:56 PM Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 04:59:36 PM by Mistwell
Quote from: The Ent;649287Well yeah those are strikes against it.

A kinda meta game about dungeoncrawlers could be fun mind, but only as a break from other Games (like once a Year or something).

I sort of view this like the Outdoor Survival board game, A Game About Wilderness Skills, which OD&D used as it's wilderness map and endorsed some rules for outdoor exploration and survival.

This, to me, is sort of a mini-game of Dungeon Survival, A Game About Dungeon Skills.  Torches, encumbrance, bulk fitting through tight spaces, food, water, shelter, all that stuff becomes the focus rather than the side-issues of the adventure.

I might play it once or twice, sort of like I'd play Outdoor Survival once or twice.

gleichman

#86
April 25, 2013, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;649282The way the turns, lighting, resources, mental mechanics are shaping up, it looks like a game where anything that in something like Hero or Harnmaster would be somehow a simulation, in this game is abstracted for the purposes of narrative metagame.

The whole belief and instincts together with the dice pool kills it for me. Well, a lot of things kill it for me.

However I saw nothing there that would prevent me from role-playing a character- only those things that would make the character one I wouldn't want to role-play.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#87
April 25, 2013, 05:04:58 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;649289This, to me, is sort of a mini-game of Dungeon Survival, A Game About Dungeon Skills.  Torches, encumbrance, bulk fitting through tight spaces, food, water, shelter, all that stuff becomes the focus rather than the side-issues of the adventure.

Seems an narrow thing to focus on doesn't it? I think this likely reflects the swapping of roles between designer and author, Crane wasn't so focused on a single aspect as this seems to be.

Plus I noted an air of condescension about the whole thing with the murder hoboo part phrase indicating it's more of a parody than not. Of course the subject is worth a parody or two, but I doubt it will be funny. The subject just doesn't seem fun as really they're focused on the more depressing and boring elements of the concept.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

silva

#88
April 25, 2013, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: gleichman;649275I think it's rather clear that what that game does is significantly different mechanically than what D&D does. That they've rejected the D&D method and selected one of their own is the cause for the of disgust here- not the actual play.

Personally if I was to do it all, I'd rather do it their way instead of the OSR 'wave the fairy wand' and call it done method. Theirs almost sounds fun.
This.

Eisenmann

#89
April 25, 2013, 05:14:16 PM
Sold.

Burning Wheel has powered some very memorable gaming moments at my table as has Mouse Guard.
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