Quote from: J Arcane;697849I feel like you probably could've come to that conclusion without spending money on it.

Most likely, but if I spend the money on something I'm in a better position when I say it sucks vs. someone saying it based on less evidence.

I stand by my assertion that the book looks very nice and has high production values; the content is just a waste of time.

Quote from: Brad;697894Most likely, but if I spend the money on something I'm in a better position when I say it sucks vs. someone saying it based on less evidence.

Yeah, but the only people that matters to are people on the internet, and who cares about them?

Quote from: J Arcane;697896Yeah, but the only people that matters to are people on the internet, and who cares about them?

THE INTERNET!

In all seriousness, I had purchased Mouse Guard and wanted to see if the gripes I had about the system were fixed. Unfortunately not.

Quote from: Brad;697901THE INTERNET!

In all seriousness, I had purchased Mouse Guard and wanted to see if the gripes I had about the system were fixed. Unfortunately not.

Ahh. That makes sense. And hell, everyone once in a while, I'm wrong about a thing, I just find that even when taking into account confirmation bias, most people have a pretty good idea what they do and do not like.

I think that's why the whole 'what about the new gamers!' argument comes up online so much. Because no matter how much you try, you really can't tell someone what they will like better than they can tell themselves.

Quote from: Brad;697838Okay, my official two word review: shit sandwich.

Could you be enticed to say more?
Because the pitch a characterdriven dungeon-survival game, running on grime, blood and fear is pretty stellar. How did they manage to mess it up?
Is at least the bread palatable, or is it shit all the way through?

Is there worthwhile stuff for me to steal from it?

Quote from: Zachary The First;670452GM: Oookay, and that's....(rolls) 28 more points of damage from the poison, plus the Ogre's attack. With an agonized yawlp, Gladius the Ranger passes from this mortal realm. Derek, roll up another....Derek, you ok, man?

Derek: I just...man....

Player 1: It's ok man. We're here for you.

Player 2: We totally understand if you need a minute to absorb this.

Player 1: Yeah, release those emotions. You're among friends. We will talk this out with you, brother, however long it takes.

Derek: I just...I gotta get out of here. This....this...THIS SUCKS.

(Exits the basement, openly sobbing)

Player 1 (to GM): YOU ASSHOLE! You know how what the rulebook says about Absorb/Release time!

Player 2: Yeah, man, it's like you have enough torchlight for the three of us, but never Derek. Resource manage, man--that's what we're here for. And couldn't he have just compromised with the Ogre? Huh? Where's the character-driven play in that?

Player 1: And now he's left! It's been like, 2 minutes, dude! When has he eaten last? He could be HUNGRY and THIRSTY up there!

GM: Well, dammit, how was I supposed to do anything? He didn't give me enough time! And besides, I was trying to calculate how much rope was needed given the number of turns, and then I couldn't remember if his Elf yearned for gulls or wanted grief, and my therapist says I'm still working out my own issues from when you killed my Fighter with that Ennui Golem, so CUT ME A GODDAMN BREAK!

(The group stares angrily at one another, before being interrupted by the sound of a single muffled gunshot from up above).

This is so funny I had to quote it again. Apologies

Quote from: Brad;697838Okay, my official two word review: shit sandwich.

More details, please.

Or pack it up, mail it to Uruguay, and give the Pundit an early Xmas present. That resulting review would be entertaining as all hell.

Quote from: baragei;697956Could you be enticed to say more?
Because the pitch a characterdriven dungeon-survival game, running on grime, blood and fear is pretty stellar. How did they manage to mess it up?
Is at least the bread palatable, or is it shit all the way through?

Is there worthwhile stuff for me to steal from it?

If you want to extend the sandwich analogy, the bread is exquisite (speaking of course about the actual covers themselves). High production values, cover art is definitely old school and evokes the right mood. As I stated initially, you could put this right next to your circa 1977 Monster Manual and it'd look like it belonged. Production values inside, same thing: very high. The layout is clean, the editing is good...but the game itself sucks.

Think of it this way...you see a Whopper commercial on tv. It looks great. But you have a sneaking suspicion it'll taste like crap due to having eaten at Burger King a couple years ago (when I got Mouseguard). Still, you're hopeful they might have fixed those problems. You see another commercial and are convinced to fund the building of a Burger King close to your house (Kickstarter) so you can try the new Whopper. When it opens, you get the Whopper. It looks BETTER than on television. After opening the wrapper and taking a bite, you can distinguish flavors you enjoy...but for some reason they just don't go together. Also, there's a large dollop of dog shit right in the middle that destroys any chance you might have to enjoy the Whopper (the forced narrative aspect). There's really no way to scrape off all the shit because it has permeated throughout the Whopper, so you wrap it back up and put it under glass to look at, not eat.

Quote from: Brad;698181If you want to extend the sandwich analogy...

I don't. How about some actual cogent criticism instead of a tired analogy?

Quote from: Brad;698181If you want to extend the sandwich analogy, the bread is exquisite (speaking of course about the actual covers themselves). High production values, cover art is definitely old school and evokes the right mood. As I stated initially, you could put this right next to your circa 1977 Monster Manual and it'd look like it belonged. Production values inside, same thing: very high. The layout is clean, the editing is good...but the game itself sucks.

Think of it this way...you see a Whopper commercial on tv. It looks great. But you have a sneaking suspicion it'll taste like crap due to having eaten at Burger King a couple years ago (when I got Mouseguard). Still, you're hopeful they might have fixed those problems. You see another commercial and are convinced to fund the building of a Burger King close to your house (Kickstarter) so you can try the new Whopper. When it opens, you get the Whopper. It looks BETTER than on television. After opening the wrapper and taking a bite, you can distinguish flavors you enjoy...but for some reason they just don't go together. Also, there's a large dollop of dog shit right in the middle that destroys any chance you might have to enjoy the Whopper (the forced narrative aspect). There's really no way to scrape off all the shit because it has permeated throughout the Whopper, so you wrap it back up and put it under glass to look at, not eat.

And here is why you should not post while hungry.

That's it. I am definitely getting a hamburger tonight.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;698329That's it. I am definitely getting a hamburger tonight.

I'm having ground beef and gravy on rice tonight.

Quote from: LePete;698279I don't. How about some actual cogent criticism instead of a tired analogy?

I already said it fucking sucks; what more do you want? This isn't rpg.net...I'm not going to post a 2000 word review that ends in 5/5 MEATY even though I point out numerous flaws.

How about this: buy the PDF and make your own conclusions. I have very specific views about rpgs you may not share, so anything I say may or may not be applicable to your own play style.

Quote from: Brad;698344I already said it fucking sucks; what more do you want?

$20 and a blowjob!

(old French joke)

Quote from: Brad;698344I already said it fucking sucks; what more do you want?

What you think sucks, and why.

'It's a shit-burger!' tells me nothing about the game.