Torchbearer: dungeon exploring and survival simulation

Noclue · August 12, 2013, 03:48:17 AM

Quote from: Phillip;680177In old D&D, if you fail your 1/3 (or whatever) chance of immediate success, you just need to keep working at it until you get the door open. That could be tiring, but basically the cost is time and noise.

That's only really a cost if you have something time sensitive going on or something nasty reacts to the noise. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of repetitive rolling until the door is open.

noisms · August 12, 2013, 06:20:11 AM

My good friend Patrick has been working on something like this for D&D for ages, called The Veins of the Earth (http://falsemachine.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Veins). It is crazily wonderful and strange, and has the added bonus of not being tacked onto the ridiculously fiddly Burning Wheel system.

Piestrio · August 17, 2013, 08:03:30 PM

This I like:

QuoteBut don't tell the GM what skill or ability you
use! Your description of your character's actions should fit
entirely within the context of what happens in the game
world.

LePete · August 18, 2013, 10:24:04 AM

Seconded.

It's like Apocalypse World in that you gotta lead with the fiction. If you say "I search for traps" the GM is gonna respond with "Cool! So how you doin' that?"

Kinda obvious right, but players looking at their sheets for skills to use Is A Thing.

I like that during character creation you're allowed to take as much equipment as you like (and can carry). It's amusing to see players loading their characters up with tons of rope, iron spikes, tinderboxes, and torches to account for redundancy.

Phillip · August 18, 2013, 04:11:39 PM

Quote from: Noclue;680275That's only really a cost if you have something time sensitive going on or something nasty reacts to the noise. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of repetitive rolling until the door is open.

Quite so! The probabilities of time taken (which feeds directly into such things as torches and spells running out) and arrival of wandering monsters (a significant risk of high costs) could theoretically be consolidated into a single dice roll.

Inexperienced GMs especially have a tendency to call for repetitive rolls that don't really add interest.

Noclue · August 19, 2013, 12:08:52 AM

Quote from: Phillip;682739Quite so! The probabilities of time taken (which feeds directly into such things as torches and spells running out) and arrival of wandering monsters (a significant risk of high costs) could theoretically be consolidated into a single dice roll.

Inexperienced GMs especially have a tendency to call for repetitive rolls that don't really add interest.

So, the way Torchbearer addresses this is by the GM deciding if 1) you get the door open but suffer an ongoing condition, or 2) you don't get the door open and something unexpected happens. There isn't a null result option.

But, that works in Torchbearer, where the focus is on struggling in the face of adversity, more than on overcoming challenges. In a game that is more of a contest, simply not overcoming the challenge is a valid option.

Archangel Fascist · August 19, 2013, 12:33:09 AM

Quote from: Phillip;682739Quite so! The probabilities of time taken (which feeds directly into such things as torches and spells running out) and arrival of wandering monsters (a significant risk of high costs) could theoretically be consolidated into a single dice roll.

Indeed. As if the DM could call for a roll to open the door and a failure could abstractly represent one of these negative things occurring: it takes you a considerable amount of time to open the door (your torch may die soon), it exhausts you (forcing you to consume rations), it makes a lot of noise (attracting a wandering monster), and so forth.

robiswrong · August 19, 2013, 05:29:37 PM

Quote from: Phillip;682739Inexperienced GMs especially have a tendency to call for repetitive rolls that don't really add interest.

The problem is that repetitive rolls will *eventually* hit whatever success/failure condition is actually there.

In most of the BW-esque games, the idea is to figure out what the interesting consequence is, and just roll for that directly, rather than dragging it out. That way you can also keep the math working right.

The trick is that in old-school D&D, the time it took to try things *was* the cost, combined with resource consumption and the chance of a random encounter.

Noclue · August 19, 2013, 06:46:07 PM

Quote from: robiswrong;683199The trick is that in old-school D&D, the time it took to try things *was* the cost, combined with resource consumption and the chance of a random encounter.

And in some, but not all, modes of playing, if the GM didn't have anything nasty prepped for the players in that area, that was pretty tough luck for him. That's the setup.

Brad · September 27, 2013, 04:33:51 PM

Just got my hardcover today. Must say, very nice looking book. Sort of retro, reminds me of the original Monster Manual. No comment on the contents yet (I'll read through it later), but this will definitely look nice on my bookshelf.

Brad · October 09, 2013, 10:39:14 AM

Okay, my official two word review: shit sandwich.

Benoist · October 09, 2013, 11:35:30 AM

Quote from: Brad;697838Okay, my official two word review: shit sandwich.

Why?

J Arcane · October 09, 2013, 11:44:12 AM

Quote from: Brad;697838Okay, my official two word review: shit sandwich.

I feel like you probably could've come to that conclusion without spending money on it.

daniel_ream · October 09, 2013, 01:03:02 PM

Quote from: J Arcane;697849I feel like you probably could've come to that conclusion without spending money on it.

Most people here did so without seeing any part of the game, never mind spending money on it.

J Arcane · October 09, 2013, 01:09:53 PM

Quote from: daniel_ream;697869Most people here did so without seeing any part of the game, never mind spending money on it.

Don't mistake me: I don't accuse him of bias.

I think most people have a better sense than anyone about what they will enjoy and not enjoy, and they are rarely wrong.

I just don't understand ignoring that and buying it anyway.