Quote from: Rincewind1;649156:pundit: You seeThe rules are so complicated to weed out those unwashed enough to play and ensure that everyone has the same importance to the plot, and GM can not just kill your fun by taking your character away from you. :pundit:

:rotfl:

Well it's better do those things. I mean the (nice) character creation rules can let me make say a baker* w/o either fighting, stealth/thief, Magic or people skills while players B, C and D make a Knight, a wizard and a superbadass elf...my character better be as important!!! Especially considering the combat system...

*=or better yet, an ex-slave ex-PoW leper who's not good at anything

Quote from: Exploderwizard;649242Shit goes in cycles.

This game might make old school dungeon crawling cool again for the kids.

....and then soon after that be mocked yet again when the next fad du jour comes along.

To me, RPGs and storygames focused mostly and/or purely on dungeoncrawling are a bit redundant. D&D and RQ handles that well enough, and Descent and Diablo/various Nethack variants really squeeze most of what's left in the genre as it is. It's beating a dead horse, and there are plenty of other venues to be mined.

When was last one "realistic" post - apocalyptic rpg? I'd like to see would be a new Post Apocalyptic RPG, with decent mechanics and which wouldn't be funny & zanny in the Mutants Riding Rocket Elephants On Highways, but like Fallout or Postman - gritty world where man fights another man while rebuilding society, with also decent amount of black and normal humour. I feel like there haven't been really a new PA Rpg in this vain for quite some time. I'm using BRP for my needs right now, but I would not be impartial to some cleaned - up version of Fallout RPG. The Sawyer's version is so fiddly you may just shrug and grab Aftermath! while you're at it - it's more fiddly, yeah, but fiddleness fits better all in all.

Quote from: Rincewind1;649248What I'd like to see would be a new Post Apocalyptic RPG, with decent mechanics and which wouldn't be funny & zanny in the Mutants Riding Rocket Elephants On Highways, but like Fallout or Postman - gritty world where man fights another man while rebuilding society, with also decent amount of black and normal humour. I feel like there haven't been really a new PA Rpg in this vain for quite some time. I'm using BRP for my needs right now, but I would not be impartial to some cleaned - up version of Fallout RPG.

Other Dust.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;649240Forgist or not, it made Forbes.

Yes that caught my attention too, but it's not in any kind of a prominent position on the site as far as I can see, rather some backroom personal blog thing. Still, Forbes is pretty good, there are lessons to be learned from this.

Incidentally from a thread a while back I couldn't pick up any shared narrative mechanics in DW, so are they now making fairly standard issue RPGs and calling them storygames - instead of making shared narrative games and calling them RPGs?

It's like some sort of a mental Möbius strip.

Quote from: The Ent;649249Other Dust.

Seeing as it's for SWN, I assume it's also retro - D&D mechanics based? I personally find D&D mechanics to be best fit for D&D (so a general mash - up of fantasy stuff), some high fantasy action and some sword & sorcery stuff. I am not a big fan of levels & hitpoints, at least not in D&D style. I found SWN interesting, but not my cup of coffee because of the retro D&D stuff.

Quote from: The Traveller;649250Yes that caught my attention too, but it's not in any kind of a prominent position on the site as far as I can see, rather some backroom personal blog thing. Still, Forbes is pretty good, there are lessons to be learned from this.

Incidentally from a thread a while back I couldn't pick up any shared narrative mechanics in DW, so are they now making fairly standard issue RPGs and calling them storygames - instead of making shared narrative games and calling them RPGs?

It's like some sort of a mental Möbius strip.

I am quite torn between my dislike of heavily - narrativist RPGs (I like RPGs with light genre emulation/literary narration mechanics - such as Warhammer & Call of Cthulhu, who feature such mechanics to enforce the feel of the game/genre emulation), and a human wish for personal success. Crane's got good press - he avoided most of the indie bollocks war, he did not commit such foolishness as Foul Ole Ron did, he's going back and forth to every convention he can get his hands on, and he understands the exposure of his systems - PA gave him good free advertising in his strips.

On the latter issue - actually it's a bit of a no. See, because normally keeping precious track of all those torches and emotions would be such a pain, that the only way to execute such a notion effectively is with narrativist mechanics. So it's still the same old story.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;649240. . . even if it pisses off the old guard.

Why would you even begin to imagine anyone would be 'pissed' about this?

Mordantly amused at the fawning faddishness of it? Definitely. But 'pissed?' What the fuck would I have to be pissed about?

Quote from: Rincewind1;649253Seeing as it's for SWN, I assume it's also retro - D&D mechanics based? I personally find D&D mechanics to be best fit for D&D (so a general mash - up of fantasy stuff), some high fantasy action and some sword & sorcery stuff. I am not a big fan of levels & hitpoints, at least not in D&D style. I found SWN interesting, but not my cup of coffee because of the retro D&D stuff.

I see, then I won't try to push it (Other Dust is basically SWN except post-apoc - they're 100% compatible, essentially the same game with different classes, mutations, monsters, etc).

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;649240Forgist or not, it made Forbes. That's a good sign from a sales perspective, even if it pisses off the old guard.

Pissed off?  Dude I think it's fucking hilarious.

Imagine going to the beach and taking a friend.  Before you get there, that friend dons a bathing cap, noseclips, enough sunblock to survive a gamma ray burst, goggles, fins, water-wings and a life jacket, then sits under a beach umbrella the whole time and when you ask him when he's going to get in the water he looks at you like you've lost your mind and says "In the water?  Are you brain damaged?  There's no fun to be had in that!  I just wanted the experience of being a beach-goer."

Wouldn't you think that was a laugh riot?  'cause I sure would, and that's what the guys who designed this game and people who'll play it are doing.

Oh!  Almost forgot, for the Goons:  GRAR YOU DON'T TAKE ELFGAMES SERIOUSLY ENOUGH GRAR ME BIG MEAN GROGNARD GRAR!!!

Quote from: Black Vulmea;649255Why would you even begin to imagine anyone would be 'pissed' about this?

Mordantly amused at the fawning faddishness of it? Definitely. But 'pissed?' What the fuck would I have to be pissed about?

It's the internet. When you say "fuck" people point the finger and tell you how angry you surely are.

The level of effete snobbery in this thread has reach such great heights that Al Gore called, he wants his schtick back.

Seriously, I had no awareness of this game before, but this asinine overreaction has piqued my interest.  If douche-bags are salivating this much to demonstrate their superiority over this product and everyone and thing involved with it, maybe it does have something to offer after all.

Quote from: Rincewind1;649253Crane's got good press - he avoided most of the indie bollocks war, he did not commit such foolishness as Foul Ole Ron did, he's going back and forth to every convention he can get his hands on, and he understands the exposure of his systems - PA gave him good free advertising in his strips.

I don't really think about that stuff, products succeed or fail on their own merits and it doesn't bother me if the author is a nice guy or an unconscionable bastard. Although I do draw a line when you're talking about things like maid. Ick.

Quote from: Rincewind1;649253On the latter issue - actually it's a bit of a no. See, because normally keeping precious track of all those torches and emotions would be such a pain, that the only way to execute such a notion effectively is with narrativist mechanics. So it's still the same old story.

Well I was more talking about DW. It's like watching the evolution of RPGs all over again in a microcosm.

First you start out with shared narrative games which are much more closely related to old school wargames than RPGs, then you have people bringing out something much closer to RPGs and calling them shared narrative games, without any of the distinguishing features of shared narrative games.

Quote from: Mistwell;649263The level of effete snobbery in this thread has reach such great heights that Al Gore called, he wants his schtick back.

Seriously, I had no awareness of this game before, but this asinine overreaction has piqued my interest.  If douche-bags are salivating this much to demonstrate their superiority over this product and everyone and thing involved with it, maybe it does have something to offer after all.

By all means! Knock yourself out!

Quote from: Mistwell;649263The level of effete snobbery in this thread has reach such great heights that Al Gore called, he wants his schtick back.

Amazing isn't it?

At its core, it seems that they've taken some basic concepts the designer thought interesting and built what looks to be nicely focused mechanics to represent them.

The result  doesn't sound like anything I'd be remotely interested in, but I don't see any reason to break out the pitchforks and torches over it. But this crowd loves them some pitchforks and torches for anything not OSR.

Fuck, I've got no emotion invested in this shit.  It's gaming.  I've got better things in which to invest my emotion.

I just think it's funny that the effete snobs at RPGnet are enchanted by exactly the sort of thing they thought was repugnant last week.

RIF

Quote from: thedungeondelver;649259Oh!  Almost forgot, for the Goons:  GRAR YOU DON'T TAKE ELFGAMES SERIOUSLY ENOUGH GRAR ME BIG MEAN GROGNARD GRAR!!!

Don't call pigs from the forest .

Quote from: Mistwell;649263The level of effete snobbery in this thread has reach such great heights that Al Gore called, he wants his schtick back.

Seriously, I had no awareness of this game before, but this asinine overreaction has piqued my interest.  If douche-bags are salivating this much to demonstrate their superiority over this product and everyone and thing involved with it, maybe it does have something to offer after all.

You know Mistwell, for the Lady of the Lake to appear and allow you to drink from the Holy Grail of Gilles de Breton, you need to ride out on the actual quest. "Monsters" defeated on the Internet don't count for the Quest, I'm afraid.

Quote from: The Traveller;649265I don't really think about that stuff, products succeed or fail on their own merits and it doesn't bother me if the author is a nice guy or an unconscionable bastard. Although I do draw a line when you're talking about things like maid. Ick.

Well I'm of a different mind on the last piece - if a game tackles problematic issues, but is well done and interesting, I may be interested. I despise controversy for controversy's sake though.

QuoteWell I was more talking about DW. It's like watching the evolution of RPGs all over again in a microcosm.

First you start out with shared narrative games which are much more closely related to old school wargames than RPGs, then you have people bringing out something much closer to RPGs and calling them shared narrative games, without any of the distinguishing features of shared narrative games.

That's something I'd agree actually - I mean AW is really a more interactive Choose Your Own Adventure book from players perspective, and provides for a GM who's afraid to take the training wheel's off from his RPG

Quote from: gleichman;649270Amazing isn't it?

At its core, it seems that they've taken some basic concepts the designer thought interesting and built what looks to be nicely focused mechanics to represent them.

The result  doesn't sound like anything I'd be remotely interested in, but I don't see any reason to break out the pitchforks and torches over it. But this crowd loves them some pitchforks and torches for anything not OSR.

When I am sometimes foolish enough to click the "view post" thing, I start to believe more and more that

1) If Forge did not exist, we would need to invent it and
2) You use/used to despise Ron Edwards not because you disagree with him, but because he got there first and you can't forgive him that.

We're sorry that we find a notion of using a protractor for better RPG silly and laughable. I'm sure there is a forum dedicated to protractors, where such notions won't be ridiculed.

Quote from: Benoist;649268By all means! Knock yourself out!

RPGsite's Seal of Disapproval?