Hey, this thread is gonna have cuture war stuff.


I found this video timely considering Battletech was mentioned in the previous Custodes thread.

Greetings!

Battletech has been corrupted by the Woke BS too? So sad.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The video mentions that Catalyst has had several "non-BattleTech" Kickstarters that have failed to get funded, but he doesn't seem to recognize that the BattleTech Kickstarters for the last few years have been wildly successful. It is implied that the failure of these "non-BT" Kickstarters is a sign of Catalyst's impending financial failure, but it just means that they are concentrating on where the money's at (i.e., in BT). Razorfist says BT can't afford to lose even a few customers like him, but the Kickstarters seem to offer evidence to the contrary (and the Mercenaries one, at least, was definitely after it had already "lost" him).

I want to see more about that whole demo team fiasco.

I used to love Battletech.   Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2024, 12:22:21 PMI used to love Battletech.  Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

I got the Catalyst Battletech box, and it seems to be the same as the FASA heat system. What exactly did they do to make it more complicated?

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2024, 06:23:01 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2024, 12:22:21 PMI used to love Battletech.  Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

I got the Catalyst Battletech box, and it seems to be the same as the FASA heat system. What exactly did they do to make it more complicated?

They didn't do anything to the heat system. However, they have bulked upt the rules to cover a lot of different things. If you play with the BattleMech Manual, you have a slimmed down but fairly robust (more so than Beginner Set) set of rules for 'Mechs. If you play with Total Warfare, you can add in almost every other type of unit for a moderate increase in complexity. Add in Tactical Operations, and you can complicate the hell out of things real quick with all sorts of special and/or optional rules, and there are even a few things beyond that if you buy into all the books.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 26, 2024, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2024, 06:23:01 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2024, 12:22:21 PMI used to love Battletech.  Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

I got the Catalyst Battletech box, and it seems to be the same as the FASA heat system. What exactly did they do to make it more complicated?

They didn't do anything to the heat system. However, they have bulked upt the rules to cover a lot of different things. If you play with the BattleMech Manual, you have a slimmed down but fairly robust (more so than Beginner Set) set of rules for 'Mechs. If you play with Total Warfare, you can add in almost every other type of unit for a moderate increase in complexity. Add in Tactical Operations, and you can complicate the hell out of things real quick with all sorts of special and/or optional rules, and there are even a few things beyond that if you buy into all the books.

To be fair, it's not like the extra rules are required, but yes, an increase in complexity is entirely reasonable when moving from essentially a squad-level skirmish game to a regimental-level game with air power, artillery, transport, and maintenance sections now playing roles in what is now a campaign long set of battles to resolve.

At least their expansions make sense. Basic Box is small-unit Mechs; Total Warfare covers all the other varied things that can turn up in a face to face skirmish.

Tactical Operations moves it up a level with artillery and repair. Strategic Operations adds Jump/Warships. Interstellar Ops goes into "when stellar nations go to war" factors.

If all you want is squad-level Mech battles, then you need exactly one book to play and honestly, outside of needing specific advanced equipment rules for a few advanced designs, the basic box rules covers nearly everything... get the Clan Invasion box set and it'll cover 90% of the advanced equipment that turns up... and most of those are just slight tweaks (ex. pulse lasers are have a to-hit modifer, streak missiles skip the roll for how many hit, LB-X autocannons use the missile hit table for their cluster rounds, etc.)

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 26, 2024, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2024, 06:23:01 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2024, 12:22:21 PMI used to love Battletech.  Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

I got the Catalyst Battletech box, and it seems to be the same as the FASA heat system. What exactly did they do to make it more complicated?

They didn't do anything to the heat system. However, they have bulked upt the rules to cover a lot of different things. If you play with the BattleMech Manual, you have a slimmed down but fairly robust (more so than Beginner Set) set of rules for 'Mechs. If you play with Total Warfare, you can add in almost every other type of unit for a moderate increase in complexity. Add in Tactical Operations, and you can complicate the hell out of things real quick with all sorts of special and/or optional rules, and there are even a few things beyond that if you buy into all the books.

I've fallen in love with BattleTech, and perhaps it comes from inexperience, but I've yet to play a game that didn't take a few hours. Great game, but I don't know how some of these guys can play 16k double lances and have a game done in a day.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 29, 2024, 11:01:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 26, 2024, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2024, 06:23:01 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2024, 12:22:21 PMI used to love Battletech.  Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

I got the Catalyst Battletech box, and it seems to be the same as the FASA heat system. What exactly did they do to make it more complicated?

They didn't do anything to the heat system. However, they have bulked upt the rules to cover a lot of different things. If you play with the BattleMech Manual, you have a slimmed down but fairly robust (more so than Beginner Set) set of rules for 'Mechs. If you play with Total Warfare, you can add in almost every other type of unit for a moderate increase in complexity. Add in Tactical Operations, and you can complicate the hell out of things real quick with all sorts of special and/or optional rules, and there are even a few things beyond that if you buy into all the books.

I've fallen in love with BattleTech, and perhaps it comes from inexperience, but I've yet to play a game that didn't take a few hours. Great game, but I don't know how some of these guys can play 16k double lances and have a game done in a day.

For us, the answer is: Play Alpha Strike.

Seriously, I love BattleTech, but I'm warming to Alpha Strike (though we play it on the hex maps). However, it's not the same game, and I do miss some of the options and gameplay of BattleTech. In particular, I don't care for Alpha Strike's "free facing changes" because I've seen how ludicrous it can be when retrograding can be done at full speed.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 29, 2024, 11:01:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 26, 2024, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2024, 06:23:01 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2024, 12:22:21 PMI used to love Battletech.  Sadly, I think once Catalyst got ahold of it they made it more complicated and more out of reach for many players.

I have been picking at designing my own Battletech style game, without the stupid heat issues and fixing some of the stupidity found in the rules which has kind of pushed me away from Battletech.

I got the Catalyst Battletech box, and it seems to be the same as the FASA heat system. What exactly did they do to make it more complicated?

They didn't do anything to the heat system. However, they have bulked upt the rules to cover a lot of different things. If you play with the BattleMech Manual, you have a slimmed down but fairly robust (more so than Beginner Set) set of rules for 'Mechs. If you play with Total Warfare, you can add in almost every other type of unit for a moderate increase in complexity. Add in Tactical Operations, and you can complicate the hell out of things real quick with all sorts of special and/or optional rules, and there are even a few things beyond that if you buy into all the books.

I've fallen in love with BattleTech, and perhaps it comes from inexperience, but I've yet to play a game that didn't take a few hours. Great game, but I don't know how some of these guys can play 16k double lances and have a game done in a day.

The key is internalizing the hit location table and using a small die next to your minis for their movement modifers (some will even use three different colored d6's so they can tell at a glance if they'd walked, ran or jumped).

Those two things alone can shave half the time or more off each turn's length.

Best part on the table memorization is you really only need one guy who can do it to speed up the whole table since you can just rattle off the hit locations and they'll announce what the location is.

There are other tricks to counting range (on a hex map the shortest distance is always out count out from you to the same hex line the target is in, then count in to the target), then figuring out all your other modifers and adding range last (since that's the only variable that will vary between weapons) and then rolling by range group (and using different colored dice to roll multiples of the same weapon type... four medium lasers is 8d6 with two red, two green, two blue, and two black dice then checking all those vs. the same target number)... all of which speed things up immensely.

There are other rules of thumb for force composition that many groups abide by to keep games from dragging, but the above make a huge difference.

Another play speed up comes from digital tracking sheets like Flechs Sheets that make it easy to mark off effects quickly (though no one I know who plays live bothers with the automation, it's just really nice for having most static modifers already recorded and keeping you from forgetting heat and damage effects when they apply).

A related relevant bit to this discussion too is the Battletech community exists more DESPITE Catalyst than because of it. If you quizzed the half dozen players I meat up with every Wednesday after work, none of them would even be aware of any of the outrage here about Catalyst going woke... they're just there to play a match of "big stompy robots" and vent about their work... it's basically hitting the bar after work for nerds.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 30, 2024, 12:28:41 AMFor us, the answer is: Play Alpha Strike.

Seriously, I love BattleTech, but I'm warming to Alpha Strike (though we play it on the hex maps). However, it's not the same game, and I do miss some of the options and gameplay of BattleTech. In particular, I don't care for Alpha Strike's "free facing changes" because I've seen how ludicrous it can be when retrograding can be done at full speed.

Alpha Strike is fun and fast, but there's definitely an appeal to "cool my LRM20 just hit with - allllll twenty. Gimme those dice."

Quote from: Thornhammer on April 30, 2024, 05:01:51 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 30, 2024, 12:28:41 AMFor us, the answer is: Play Alpha Strike.

Seriously, I love BattleTech, but I'm warming to Alpha Strike (though we play it on the hex maps). However, it's not the same game, and I do miss some of the options and gameplay of BattleTech. In particular, I don't care for Alpha Strike's "free facing changes" because I've seen how ludicrous it can be when retrograding can be done at full speed.

Alpha Strike is fun and fast, but there's definitely an appeal to "cool my LRM20 just hit with - allllll twenty. Gimme those dice."

I've heard this is a possibility, but among my gaming group, we consistently roll shit on the cluster hits table.

Quote from: Thornhammer on April 30, 2024, 05:01:51 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 30, 2024, 12:28:41 AMFor us, the answer is: Play Alpha Strike.

Seriously, I love BattleTech, but I'm warming to Alpha Strike (though we play it on the hex maps). However, it's not the same game, and I do miss some of the options and gameplay of BattleTech. In particular, I don't care for Alpha Strike's "free facing changes" because I've seen how ludicrous it can be when retrograding can be done at full speed.

Alpha Strike is fun and fast, but there's definitely an appeal to "cool my LRM20 just hit with - allllll twenty. Gimme those dice."

Oh yeah. I think a lot of the "clunky" rules are what gives Battletech combat it's big stompy mech feel. In something like Macross fights are fast and furious with mechs blowing up from the slightest damage. In Battletech, mechs toss huge amounts of weapons fire into each other and roll hit locations and critical locations and aside from the rare but memorable Cockpit Hit, keep dragging their blasted carcasses towards each other until one finally succumbs to it's damage and keels over.

I first got a whiff of this stink when I heard they were removing the Rommel tank from the game.  I suppose the historical name of Erwin Rommel as a general for the wrong army was all it took to offend somebody in HR department.

I already have my BattleTech books.  The only thing I would want from Catalyst now are plastic miniatures, but I own a Elegoo Mars 3D printer now.  I also am quite good at making my own 3D models. 

The new stuff that BattleTech has put out has SO not appealed to me that I've actually regressed back to basics and only play BattleTech in the 3025 era of the 3rd Succession War.  I don't even like the Clans now.   Give me the introductory rulebook, the 3025 and 3026 tech readouts, and I'm good. 

I do miss power armor infantry.  I may retcon those back into my games, and I use a completely different space navy game for ship combat.