The party game "Aye, Dark Overlord" is actually an RPG.

jrients · September 03, 2009, 04:37:17 PM

So to be a roleplaying game you have to be able to take some sort of in-game action apart from dialogue? If I can only speak or punch someone in the nose, is that enough?

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:38:10 PM

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326616A game in which players need to outdo each other at telling the best story and can do nothing else isn't a roleplaying game, it's a storytelling game.

So.

Are you saying that Roleplaying needs to not only be present, but to have primacy?

Or are you saying, like Jeff, that roleplaying doesn't have substance unless you can ___________ (fill in the blank; something about freedom or openess or the like)?

jeff37923 · September 03, 2009, 04:39:52 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326619Hmm?

We were talking requirements to qualify, that kind of thing, here, weren't we?

A preference isn't a requirement, man.

Levi, you are trying your best to shoehorn a Party Game into a RPG definition when even you understand the difference here.

kregmosier · September 03, 2009, 04:42:10 PM

so, is Munchkin a role-playing game? Descent? Car Wars?

QuoteAye, Dark Overlord! is a funny and fast-paced card game of quick thinking and shameless excuse-making.

the site doesn't bill it as such, so i'd say no, it's a card game.

Koltar · September 03, 2009, 04:43:06 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326623Levi, you are trying your best to shoehorn a Party Game into a RPG definition when even you understand the difference here.

Levi must have lost a bet with someone - so he had to start this thread.

- Ed C.

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:45:53 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326623Levi, you are trying your best to shoehorn a Party Game into a RPG definition when even you understand the difference here.

I understand the difference between the kinds of game being discussed. And it IS a substantial and significant difference.

There's a huge distinction to be made here.

But I'm not sure why that distinction should be "We call this one an RPG, but not this one".

jeff37923 · September 03, 2009, 04:47:38 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326629I understand the difference between the kinds of game being discussed. And it IS a substantial and significant difference.

There's a huge distinction to be made here.

But I'm not sure why that distinction should be "We call this one an RPG, but not this one".

Because the game Aye, Dark Overlord does not call itself a RPG, but instead labels itself as a Party Game?

I know that I'm playing Master of the Obvious, but isn't this a case of Knows Answer When Given?

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 04:49:51 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326630Because the game Aye, Dark Overlord does not call itself a RPG, but instead labels itself as a Party Game?

D&D has, in at least one iteration, labeled itself as an Adventure Game.

jrients · September 03, 2009, 04:51:39 PM

Quote from: kregmosier;326625the site doesn't bill it as such, so i'd say no, it's a card game.

Why should the marketing and the reality necessarily line up? D&D was considered an oddball wargame at first.

MarionPoliquin · September 03, 2009, 05:03:10 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326622So.

Are you saying that Roleplaying needs to not only be present, but to have primacy?

Or are you saying, like Jeff, that roleplaying doesn't have substance unless you can ___________ (fill in the blank; something about freedom or openess or the like)?

In order to have a rolaplaying game, you have to have roleplaying and roleplaying has to be the object of the game. Anything else makes any definition of roleplaying games utterly meaningless (cue the "Monopoly is a roleplaying game because I make choo-choo noises when I move my piece" argument).

Which is why Aye, Dark Overlord isn't a roleplaying game, because roleplaying isn't the object of the game. The object of the game is to tell stories, and nothing else.

Levi Kornelsen · September 03, 2009, 05:08:09 PM

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326638In order to have a rolaplaying game, you have to have roleplaying and roleplaying has to be the object of the game.

So, again, would you say that it's very possible to play many RPGs (D&D and Toon among them, albeit for very different reasons), as something else?

MarionPoliquin · September 03, 2009, 05:08:52 PM

Quote from: jrients;326621So to be a roleplaying game you have to be able to take some sort of in-game action apart from dialogue? If I can only speak or punch someone in the nose, is that enough?

I guess you could have a roleplaying game with nothing but conversation. I don't really see the point of such a game, though, and that still doesn't make Aye, Dark Overlord anything more than a storytelling game.

MarionPoliquin · September 03, 2009, 05:12:32 PM

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326639So, again, would you say that it's very possible to play many RPGs (D&D and Toon among them, albeit for very different reasons), as something else?

I don't see where you asked this question before in this thread. Sorry, if I missed it.

"Play RPGs as something else" I'm sorry, you've really lost me with this. I have no idea where you're going. I'll need a little more transparency on your part.

Jason Morningstar · September 03, 2009, 05:14:44 PM

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326638In order to have a rolaplaying game, you have to have roleplaying and roleplaying has to be the object of the game. Anything else makes any definition of roleplaying games utterly meaningless (cue the "Monopoly is a roleplaying game because I make choo-choo noises when I move my piece" argument).

Which is why Aye, Dark Overlord isn't a roleplaying game, because roleplaying isn't the object of the game. The object of the game is to tell stories, and nothing else.

I think the object of the game is actually to not lose, right? And the way you don't lose is to play your character, engage with the game's light mechanics effectively, and tell an entertaining story.

Maybe, Levi, you need to find out what roleplaying is. Because the next obvious argument is "roleplaying games do not have end and/or victory conditions".

Jason Morningstar · September 03, 2009, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;326610"To be an RPG, you must not only have a role, but the role must possess a certain degree of depth, and if you cannot interact with that setting around the character beyond a certain degree of complexity, you cannot "roleplay" your role, which was chosen or created by the Player."

"A certain degree" ... how much? Who decides? (I know, the Dark Overlord) Do you know it when you see it?

By the way, this is a fun conversation.