Quote from: Benoist;606232WTF? What?! Your character can't die unless you decide it as a player?

Put simply, yes.

To get into more detail, you have two wound tracks - vitality which is sort of like D&D hit points and wound boxes which are sort of like White Wolf damage boxes with penalties assigned.

Except that 1) it's completely up to the player where to assign the damage points and 2) the White Wolf damage boxes give out bonuses instead of penalties. When your vitality runs out you pass out. When you have moderate damage marked, you get +1 to all rolls. When you have heavy damage, you get +2 but lose a Vitality point every round (except for your last one). When you mark your dead box, you negate all other damage for the attack, get +3 to all actions and when you run out of Vitality, you die.

Genre emulation, beyotch. I thought the landmarks were all over that shiznit... yo?

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;606239Yup, storygame RPGs, Trad RPGs, still just RPGs, truth be told.  All good in the hood with me.

"Storygame RPG" means "story game role playing game". It's like saying "a red wine white wine" or "salted butter unsalted butter". It does not make any sense. "Yup, red wine white wine, traditional white wine, it's all just white wine to me!"

Quote from: vytzka;606240Genre emulation, beyotch. I thought the landmarks were all over that shiznit... yo?

So, characters in Tenra Bansho only die when they decide it in the genre being emulated? That's a "thing" in the game world, like the character knows he's impossible to kill UNLESS he actually risks something? I don't think you got that "genre emulation" thing quite pinned down yet.

Quote from: Benoist;606237Wow...

you knew that anyway. it was made clear earlier on in the first thread.

Quote from: Benoist;606245So, characters in Tenra Bansho only die when they decide it in the genre being emulated? That's a "thing" in the game world, like the character knows he's impossible to kill UNLESS he actually risks something? I don't think you got that "genre emulation" thing quite pinned down yet.

Over here in the non-stupid country, no, a character doesn't know he's impossible to kill, what the fuck. I mean they could probably get coup de graced by an NPC while they're unconscious, you just don't do that shit if you don't want to be in Dick City: Population Benoist. So you throw them in a dungeon or whatever.

A character probably does know that instead of giving in and passing out they can instead go for the blaze of glory and either win or risk certain death. Sometimes you can do both.

Does that make too much sense?

Sadly I have to go to bed now. I hope this place doesn't melt down completely in the meantime.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;606246you knew that anyway. it was made clear earlier on in the first thread.

I honestly didn't know. I didn't read the whole previous thread in detail.

Quote from: Benoist;606245So, characters in Tenra Bansho only die when they decide it in the genre being emulated? That's a "thing" in the game world, like the character knows he's impossible to kill UNLESS he actually risks something? I don't think you got that "genre emulation" thing quite pinned down yet.

The PC presumably does not know this.  It's no different than Toon not allowing PC death, or games like Shadowrun allowing you to pay Edge points to buy a death back to a severe wound, except the economy behind it encourages the player to stake his character's life in big fights by incentivizing it.

Rules like this predate the Forge movement by years.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;606238It's not, as others have stated, based on any kind of Forgeist philosophy, although I can't claim to know what's been introduced by the translators in the course of translation.  The game was originally released in 1997, on another continent, as part of a gaming culture that's never heard of our weird philosophical debates.

I'm not trying to be flippant or dismissive -- as a purely cultural artifact of the Japanese gaming culture, it's an interesting book, because the author was ahead of his time in some ways (and a product of his time in others -- it's clearly a product of the same era that gave us TORG and RIFTS and other multi-genre games).  And, the translators have gone to great lengths to explain portions of the book that veer from our cultural touchstones, such as "cafe gaming" or the significance of 108 when it comes to the karma system, or the choice of terms.

Yes, I get that part now. Thank you.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;606250The PC presumably does not know this.  It's no different than Toon not allowing PC death, or games like Shadowrun allowing you to pay Edge points to buy a death back to a severe wound, except the economy behind it encourages the player to stake his character's life in big fights by incentivizing it.

Rules like this predate the Forge movement by years.

Rolemaster Standard System had optional Fate points that let you minimize effects of criticals.

And then Coleman Charlton was a Ron Edwards.

(yeah yeah gone for real now)

Quote from: Future Villain Band;606250The PC presumably does not know this.  It's no different than Toon not allowing PC death, or games like Shadowrun allowing you to pay Edge points to buy a death back to a severe wound, except the economy behind it encourages the player to stake his character's life in big fights by incentivizing it.

Rules like this predate the Forge movement by years.

I know, but they are still narrative in nature, and narrativism in RPGs gives me seizures. I don't play a role playing game to be the co-author of anything. I play to immerse myself in the game world.

Now, I'm going to take objection with Toon. Toon by not allowing PC death is actually emulative of the source fiction, where characters are flattened like crepes and take pianos on the head without dying - that's the reality in which the toon characters live. Now I will agree that the Edge spend to buy a death back to a severe wound is similar to what we're talking about here, albeit this seems here in Tenra Bansho to go much farther than that, that is, in Shadowrun's case the basic rule is that you die, and the Edge spend bends that rule, whereas in TB's case the basic rule is that you never die, and the player decision to have the character take a risk bends it.

From the point of view of watching an anime show, it is genre emulation in the sense of escalating tension as the character risks it all and can go out in a blaze of glory.  

However, the key decision is really metagame outside the character's perspective in that if I decide I do not want my character to die, it is absolutely impossible for that character to die.  That is so far outside a roleplaying decision, it's really mind-boggling that someone could mistake it for such.

Quote from: vytzka;606256Rolemaster Standard System had optional Fate points that let you minimize effects of criticals.

And then Coleman Charlton was a Ron Edwards.

(yeah yeah gone for real now)

Yes, I am not a fan of Edge points, Fate points and whatever else of that ilk.

Quote from: vytzka;606247Over here in the non-stupid country, no, a character doesn't know he's impossible to kill, what the fuck. I mean they could probably get coup de graced by an NPC while they're unconscious, you just don't do that shit if you don't want to be in Dick City: Population Benoist. So you throw them in a dungeon or whatever.

A character probably does know that instead of giving in and passing out they can instead go for the blaze of glory and either win or risk certain death. Sometimes you can do both.

Does that make too much sense?

Not enough. I actually had no idea whatever the fuck you were talking about reading this.

Quote from: Benoist;606245So, characters in Tenra Bansho only die when they decide it in the genre being emulated? That's a "thing" in the game world, like the character knows he's impossible to kill UNLESS he actually risks something? I don't think you got that "genre emulation" thing quite pinned down yet.

Yes, its according to genre. In many of the anime that inspire TBZ (and many fantasy stories), death is only present as a risk if something the character believes is at stake.

Quote from: Skywalker;606263Yes, its according to genre. In many of the anime that inspire TBZ (and many fantasy stories), death is only present as a risk if something the character believes is at stake.

So the game is an anime emulator, in fact.