Quote from: Future Villain Band;606201The first weekend I had a copy, all I did was grind out crunch.  I think I made Stormbringer first, then dhampirs, then I built Soul Reapers as a splat and made Kenpachi Zuraki.

I take my hat off to you.

You can hear excerpts from "actual play" of Tenra Bansho Zero at the table on the latest episode my brother's podcast, Virtual Play, if you're interested.

Quote from: Benoist;606206Depends. I'm a big believer in the way a good "fuck you" makes one feel better at times, and I appreciate the RPG Site for being able to get it out of my system when I feel the need for it. This was one of those times.

I'll never speak against a man's right to a hearty fuck you, so long as I get to say so in return! I hold more to a general politeness policy, though,because politeness is free and bespeaks discipline and character. Yes, the rpgsite is good for that.

Kinda like when Spock expresses nothing but gratitude to the Vulcan Science Academy when he declines admission.

Quote from: Frundsberg;606210I take my hat off to you.

Post that schnizz up, dawg! Let's see it! I agree.

Quote from: Benoist;606168I'm talking about the game theory landmarks posted by the Pundit in the design and dev forum

What a load of crap.

Quote from: silva;606222What a load of crap.

For one thing, those seem to explicitly be benchmarks for examining a theory and not an RPG.

Quote from: Benoist;606160Jesus, thanks. An actual fucking answer. Hallelujah!

What are those pretty heavy narrative mechanics? How about a quote from the "what is role playing" section from the book?

Well, one example: Your character can't die unless as a player you decide to risk death for the character.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;606224For one thing, those seem to explicitly be benchmarks for examining a theory and not an RPG.

Yes. And theory influences design. My question is whether the RPG was based on a theory or design concepts that violate the benchmarks alluded to there: that is, is it a "coherent" Forgist game, does it try to redefine the role of the GM in the RPG game play, and so on. Kind of litmus test for me to determine whether this game is for me or not. But given the butthurt of some people around here each time the difference between a story game and a role playing game is pointed out, we're talking instead about all this is just "a load of crap." Quaint, though not that surprising, in hindsight.

Quote from: CRKrueger;606228Well, one example: Your character can't die unless as a player you decide to risk death for the character.

WTF? What?! Your character can't die unless you decide it as a player?

Ben, mind looking at my post on the previous page examining the benchmarks vis a vis TBZ? Are any parts unclear or disagreeable?

Quote from: Benoist;606232WTF? What?! Your character can't die unless you decide it as a player?

Yes, that is correct.  You must decide as a player that you are going to risk the death of your character.

Quote from: vytzka;606233Ben, mind looking at my post on the previous page examining the benchmarks vis a vis TBZ? Are any parts unclear or disagreeable?

I think you're taking the benchmarks too literally (like "there's a thank you note for Dave and Gary so they love D&D obviously"), but I appreciate the effort.

Quote from: CRKrueger;606235Yes, that is correct.  You must decide as a player that you are going to risk the death of your character.

Wow...

Quote from: Benoist;606229Yes. And theory influences design. My question is whether the RPG was based on a theory or design concepts that violate the benchmarks alluded to there: that is, is it a "coherent" Forgist game, does it try to redefine the role of the GM in the RPG game play, and so on. Kind of litmus test for me to determine whether this game is for me or not. But given the butthurt of some people around here each time the difference between a story game and a role playing game is pointed out, we're talking instead about all this is just "a load of crap." Quaint, though not that surprising, in hindsight.

It's not, as others have stated, based on any kind of Forgeist philosophy, although I can't claim to know what's been introduced by the translators in the course of translation.  The game was originally released in 1997, on another continent, as part of a gaming culture that's never heard of our weird philosophical debates.

I'm not trying to be flippant or dismissive -- as a purely cultural artifact of the Japanese gaming culture, it's an interesting book, because the author was ahead of his time in some ways (and a product of his time in others -- it's clearly a product of the same era that gave us TORG and RIFTS and other multi-genre games).  And, the translators have gone to great lengths to explain portions of the book that veer from our cultural touchstones, such as "cafe gaming" or the significance of 108 when it comes to the karma system, or the choice of terms.

Quote from: Benoist;606229Yes. And theory influences design. My question is whether the RPG was based on a theory or design concepts that violate the benchmarks alluded to there: that is, is it a "coherent" Forgist game, does it try to redefine the role of the GM in the RPG game play, and so on. Kind of litmus test for me to determine whether this game is for me or not. But given the butthurt of some people around here each time the difference between a story game and a role playing game is pointed out, we're talking instead about all this is just "a load of crap." Quaint, though not that surprising, in hindsight.

Yup, storygame RPGs, Trad RPGs, still just RPGs, truth be told.  All good in the hood with me.

TBZ, simply by it's trad GM/Player structure steps out of the bounds of a storygame RPG. A Storygame RPG would have the Aiki mechanic grant bonuses to traits when a particular personality trait when invoked, like FATE's aspects,as opposed to TSR's MSHRPG which hands out it's version of Karma to influence the success of roles purely at the GM's discretion. In fact, the only thing you can do with Karma besides purchase advancement and influence your own rolls in MSHRPG is to lower someone else's Zone result, if memory serves.  In TBZ, Aiki is just a benny for entertaining other players, although player use for it ties into the rest of the system and is sophisticated.

Orthdodox Forgeites, IMO, wouldn't like TBZ.