Quote from: Skywalker;668468No. The post was if anyone else appears to be do that, you are banned.

I take no issue with warning Rum Cove not to break forum rules or ignore mod warnings, and banning him if he does so. But banning him for a potentially unrelated incident involving someone else is just poor.

I'll go one further too: if he makes such a suggestion again, he will be banned. Because incitement to site disruption is in essence site disruption.

In fact, it LITERALLY is site disruption. He's already "disrupted" the functioning of this site by obliging me to come and post here.

RPGPundit

Quote from: One Horse Town;668471I imagine Pundit means if any of the (pardon the term) usual suspects start a thread they know should be elsewhere. It's not too difficult to determine.

I originally closed this thread because i knew it would devolve into this. Andy Day may well have been all innocent in what would follow for all i know (he is fairly new), but after being called "a piece of work" by him via PM for closing it, i thought what the fuck, i pulled the trigger too soon and i'm sure it'll be great!

Wrong, wrong and wrong i was. It's been turned into the usual fighting ground when this crops up.

Well, Andy, you've got some answers to your question - the rest is the circle of hell J Arcane mentioned when this subject comes up.

Agreed. And since the subject was "what are Storytelling games" and not "should storytelling games belong in the main forum of the RPG site", continuing to turn this thread into the latter will result in its closure.

And in future, if people post threads about Dungeon World, TBZ, AW, Dogs in the Vinjyard, Maid, Poison'd, or any of the other storygames and someone comes into those threads derailing them by changing the conversation to "They should be on the main forum", that act will be considered thread-derailment, which I remind everyone is site disruption.

Of course, no one is saying you can't start a thread, in the correct forum, about how you think storygames or a specific storygame should for some reason belong in the main RPG forum, and if the thread is specifically about that, its allowed.  I just want to protect the poor storygamers' right to freely talk about their love of dungeon world or anything else on here without having people hijacking their threads.  I'm a humanitarian that way.

Now, let's get back to the original topic, shall we? So I can get out of here?

RPGPundit

I'm thinking about borderline cases (or at least, as I understand the border).

So, I'm envisioning a game that supports player immersion in their characters by giving the player control only over their character's unconstrained choices and mental state.  You can author elements beyond your character, but only before play starts (e.g your character background); thereafter you have no other narrative control other than to speak as your character or say what you're doing.

The GM translates all of your intentions into actions (allowing them if they're unopposed or too easy to bother testing, like walking; disallowing them if they're impossible, and rolling dice or asking further questions the rest of the time).

On the other side of the screen, however, the GM is explicitly choosing events for narrative reasons.  He is predominantly concerned with 'pacing' events with an eye to how that fits into the session; by what seems fitting or dramatic. World events and NPC reactions have to pass a basic plausibility test, but the higher-priority concern is ensuring the PCs (in particular) are encountering interesting things, have a mix of opposition and support that suits the GM, and so on.  The GM happily rewrites or reshapes content that hasn't been revealed yet to suit these ends (e.g. tweaking the villain's secret goal to add one last twist to fuel a final arc).

The GM is free to add/modify/ignore any rules he likes, so his decision to run the game this way behind the scenes may be supported by rules, guidelines and suggestions (e.g. with quantitative counters, or checklists), or it might be his own creation or play style in the absence of any guidance from the game text.

How do you see a game like this?

Quote from: RPGPundit;668536And in future, if people post threads about Dungeon World, TBZ, AW, Dogs in the Vinjyard, Maid, Poison'd, or any of the other storygames and someone comes into those threads derailing them by changing the conversation to "They should be on the main forum", that act will be considered thread-derailment, which I remind everyone is site disruption.

Out of curiosity, what's the reason for putting Maid into the "storygame" category? Because it allows the players too to trigger random event rolls instead of just the GM? And if that's the case, then where do, say, the perversity points in Paranoia fit in?

Quote from: RPGPundit;668534He wants to tell people to commit acts of terrorism?

You should be ashamed for using that word in this context.

Quote from: Rum Cove;668562You should be ashamed for using that word in this context.

When we compare RPG.net to USSR, you must have regular Pearl Clutching Syndrome then.

Quote from: One Horse Town;668460I don't like to say i told you so, but...

How do you humans say it? Getting jiggy with it?

*coughs*

This escalated quickly?

"Acts of terrorism"? Jesus f-ing Christmas. I need a new forum. This place just went full on retarded.

Quote from: RPGPundit;668534Because we don't want to encourage an environment of tangency.net-like bullshit where people try to circumvent the few rules we have while manipulating others into getting banned for them.  He wants to tell people to commit acts of terrorism

I love how on this site someone saying that RPGs can be a kind of art is overblown pretentiousness of the highest order, but posting things in the wrong subforum is literally terrorism.

Quote from: CRKrueger;668404It seems like there is a fear of accepting a distinction between games that have OOC narrative control mechanics and those that do not because once that distinction is accepted it will...what?  Grant victory to Pundit? Lead to a Pogrom?  I don't get the fear, but it's there and leads otherwise rational posters to respond with a lot of venom to simple discussions of term definitions.

It is extremely disingenuous to redefine the term RPG to exclude all the games you don't like, and then turn round and accuse the people who like the RPGs that have been excluded as playing word games motivated by fear.

That enemy you're looking at is in fact a mirror.

Quote from: TristramEvans;668586"Acts of terrorism"? Jesus f-ing Christmas. I need a new forum.

Just make a few more socks at RPGnet, that ought to do it.

Quote from: TristramEvans;668586"Acts of terrorism"? Jesus f-ing Christmas. I need a new forum. This place just went full on retarded.

You're making a hyperbole out of a hyperbole. While I disagree with Pundit on many accounts (though I still reluctantly agree that Foul Ole Ron did try to subvert the concept of RPG to turn it into something that's not quite an RPG anymore), we've all been throwing overblown and out of place remarks and insults. Let's not get our panties in a twist because Big Bad Admin Jerk did it.

Obviously Pundit is being stupid comparing site disruption to terrorism. Just as stupid as we/I am when I compare RPG.net to USSR. But hey, metaphores - sometimes they are like balloons to convey a point.

On the Hyperboles, we're having a regular Arab Spring in here. Though I thought pork was haram (ohohoho).

Quote from: One Horse Town;668598Just make a few more socks at RPGnet, that ought to do it.

And I was nice enough to point out the only sock I used there when I got permabanned. Guess the mods don't want to believe I could quit them. Feel sorry for the poor posters they decided must be me, although Ive heard they had to offer retractions on a few of those.

Anyhow, Pundit can be as crazy paranoid about Swine as he likes, but I still think the assumption that everything he consider a story game 'goes without saying' to be a disengenuos trap. But hey, rather than bitch about it I think I'll start another thread.

Quote from: TristramEvans;668612And I was nice enough to point out the only sock I used there when I got permabanned. Guess the mods don't want to believe I could quit them. Feel sorry for the poor posters they decided must be me, although Ive heard they had to offer retractions on a few of those.

Anyhow, Pundit can be as crazy paranoid about Swine as he likes, but I still think the assumption that everything he consider a story game 'goes without saying' to be a disengenuos trap. But hey, rather than bitch about it I think I'll start another thread.

You got bann'd? Didn't hear about that. I assume it was for talking like a real man/woman rather than pacified rug, so have your obligatory medal:

I'm with Tristram here, too, bu want to add a little:
Pundit, the owner of the forum, admits that White Wolf's storytelling games isn't Storygames, but rpg's, but he tend to call those who play them" as he thinks they are to be played" "swine" anyway, because he thinks those games are pretentious pieces of shit.

I like WW's "Storytelling Games", and agree that they can be played in very pretentious ways, but i do not agree on the "shit" part.
Interesting point: opposing opinions are normally allowed.

Another interesting point: Pundit usually seem to satisfy with "Swine" for the WW-games, and call the Storygames and Storygamers often worse things ... i think ...

That is my impression, at least.

Quote from: Rincewind1;668604You're making a hyperbole out of a hyperbole. While I disagree with Pundit on many accounts (though I still reluctantly agree that Foul Ole Ron did try to subvert the concept of RPG to turn it into something that's not quite an RPG anymore), we've all been throwing overblown and out of place remarks and insults. Let's not get our panties in a twist because Big Bad Admin Jerk did i

Obviously Pundit is being stupid comparing site disruption to terrorism. Just as stupid as we/I am when I compare RPG.net to USSR. But hey, metaphores - sometimes they are like balloons to convey a point.

On the Hyperboles, we're having a regular Arab Spring in here. Though I thought pork was haram (ohohoho).

I stand by my assertion that its a full on retarded 'metaphor', along with his references to the OSR taliban. Calling the rpgnet mods facist isn't actually so far from the reality of the situation as parallels can be drawn. Calling posting in the wrong forum 'terrorism reveals more about the issues of the person saying it than the act of trolling,assumming that's what it is. Seriously, its like saying people biking on the sidewalk (technically illegal but uninforced in most cities in America) are committing acts of terrorism against, as pedestrians. It gets worse when you consider that the primary definition of 'swine' offered here are gamers who are pretentious and don't recognize its 'just a game'.