The sole point of miniature games, as i see it, is to have the rules light enough to be casual, yet structured enough to make strategy important.

There are ways like Initiative, but also the ones that uses Actions.
All on here knows initiative (i assume) while actions is different.
It is essentially the possibility for a character/minion/whathaveyou to make more than one thing during a turn.
That may be moving twice, essentially doubling the officcial movement, shoot twice(often at different targets, if so is wanted), or shoot-move or move-shoot.

GW's systems usually means that a close attack results in the mniature being locked in combat automatically, but i'm not fond of that, preferring the fighting to be ocasionally more detailed.
(Think WoD Combat or streetfighter).

The "Interruption" rules from WW's Streetfighter is a good one, but i'm not entirely sure at the moment if those would be fast and uncomplicated enough in a miniature game for my taste ...

Opinions, anyone?

So a miniatures wargame but with very detailed man to man combat?

Have you considered Warhammer Fantasy 1st edition combat + 3rd edition rules? The two were written to be largely compatable.

Or Savage Worlds, an rpg designed around a miniatures game.

Quote from: TristramEvans;726328So a miniatures wargame but with very detailed man to man combat?

Have you considered Warhammer Fantasy 1st edition combat + 3rd edition rules? The two were written to be largely compatable.

Or Savage Worlds, an rpg designed around a miniatures game.

How do Savage Worlds deal with actions/speed/initiative?

Thing is, i'm currently revising my own combined rpg/miniature game rules, so entirely swapping it for another system is not an option.
I have been inspired by GW's early boardgames, though, and partially Fantasy and 40K too.

Quote from: Catelf;726318It is essentially the possibility for a character/minion/whathaveyou to make more than one thing during a turn.
That may be moving twice, essentially doubling the officcial movement, shoot twice(often at different targets, if so is wanted), or shoot-move or move-shoot.

For playing with my son Bill I use a homebrew minis system loosely based off Warhammer, but for actions I take a 3e-4e D&D approach which is similar to but actually simpler than the Warhammer Battle 2e system (that's the Warhammer I own).

Standard half move is 4" for infantry, 3.5" in light armour, 3" in heavy armour.

On its turn a unit may:
Half move (4") & shoot (bows, javelins)
Double move (8")
Charge - double move (8") & attack at end

A shot or melee attack is resolved by rolling a d6 to hit (base 5-6), then a d6 armour save for the target (from no save to 4+). Units in melee may counter-attack at the end of the opponent's turn (no Initiative), so melee attacks are twice as frequent as missile.

Changes to this are noted in unit stat block, eg crossbows & muskets can't move & shoot in same turn, but are -1 to target armour save.

I've been looking at how to represent full round rapid fire for Bill's English Longbow units, but it looks that allowing two shots/round would be heavily overpowered.  I think hitting on a 6 if move, or a 5-6 if no move, works out about right. Crossbows & muskets hit on a 5-6 but can't move & shoot.

Quote from: S'mon;726338On its turn a unit may:
Half move (4") & shoot (bows, javelins)
Double move (8")
Charge - double move (8") & attack at end

I recognize the charge move.
To me it represents 3 actions though:
Move+Move+Attack.

Sure, some attacks do allow for included movement, but most of those has nowhere near as much move as a regular walk move.

When one also consider the possibility that several beings only have one action each turn ... 3 is so very much more.

Quote from: Catelf;726349I recognize the charge move.
To me it represents 3 actions though:
Move+Move+Attack.

Sure, some attacks do allow for included movement, but most of those has nowhere near as much move as a regular walk move.

When one also consider the possibility that several beings only have one action each turn ... 3 is so very much more.

Yes, it'd be ok to only allow 4" move + melee attack, but then missile troops should not be able to move 4" back and shoot, or you get the situation where the archers can just keep backpedaling away from the infantry while shooting   at them.
This gives me some ideas for revising my system.

Quote from: S'mon;726361Yes, it'd be ok to only allow 4" move + melee attack, but then missile troops should not be able to move 4" back and shoot, or you get the situation where the archers can just keep backpedaling away from the infantry while shooting   at them.
This gives me some ideas for revising my system.

Intersting, and really good point.
I recognize the problem.

Hmm ...
Pondering one may turn around, or move 2", AND make a simple fighting attack, but not a shooting attack....
Essentially: moving backwards halves the move, or require turning around(removing 2" from following move), and later turning around again(removing a further 2" from said move).

But, let's face it, you are forgetting something important(i almost forgot it, too).
The chargers still move 8" (4+4)until they catch up with the archers, who just move 4" each turn they shoot.
Once they are caught up, if you still use warhammer, they are locked in combat.
For my system, though, the archers would still have one more move 4+fire, and the infantry catches up with them with one move 4+ attack.
Sure, since i don't do automatic locked in combat, the archers may still backpedal and shoot ...

In that case ... it could be a good idea with "declare action"-tokens.
I mean, to keep track of what will happen, and the effects, then i'd suggest things like:
Move-then Shoot gives -1 Strength, while Shoot-then Move gives -1 move.

I just had a thought. What if you used more detailed rules just for Challenges between Champions? If you wanted to focus on this, you could use something like the light wargame rules in Army of Darkness (Eden) or you could just have it be breaks accenting a battle between two large forces.

Quote from: TristramEvans;726424I just had a thought. What if you used more detailed rules just for Challenges between Champions? If you wanted to focus on this, you could use something like the light wargame rules in Army of Darkness (Eden) or you could just have it be breaks accenting a battle between two large forces.

A really good idea when one deals with larger armies.
It makes me think of a Dynasty Warriors games i have, were challanges occasionally is issued.
(Ok, it is a console game, but i think i have seen challanges been used in a miniature game, as well.)

However, i'm personally more focussing on skirmish-level, or small battles at most, so it is currently not usable for my system.

Quote from: Catelf;726334How do Savage Worlds deal with actions/speed/initiative?

Thing is, i'm currently revising my own combined rpg/miniature game rules, so entirely swapping it for another system is not an option.
I have been inspired by GW's early boardgames, though, and partially Fantasy and 40K too.

Savage Worlds uses playing cards to determine who goes first, with an Ace giving extra attack/damage bonuses. Characters can act twice on their turn with a -2 to both actions, with normal movement in addition to this. Nothing really unusual in its action system.

The primary adaptations it uses to function quickly for mass combat are: 1) a damage system where instead of tracking HP, figures are either 'shaken' or down; 2) most actions are resolved with a single d4 to d12 roll with usually no modifiers, so the GM can roll lots of attacks simultaneously with minimal calculations.

The current edition of Mutant Chronicles Warzone uses the same basic action system as previous editions, with one major difference, figure one gets two actions per turn and nobody but nobody gets more.  At three actions you can move out of concealment, fire, and get back in cover without being open to return fire...

Just a major point in my mind regarding 3 actions per turn.

Quote from: David Johansen;726597The current edition of Mutant Chronicles Warzone uses the same basic action system as previous editions, with one major difference, figure one gets two actions per turn and nobody but nobody gets more.  At three actions you can move out of concealment, fire, and get back in cover without being open to return fire...

Just a major point in my mind regarding 3 actions per turn.

Counterpoint:
If you are three times as fast as many others, than that is exactly what you can do, yes.

The only point i can see, is that such speeds should be ... very uncommon.
However, such speeds has to be uncommon anyway, because too many actions also slows down the game.