One of the benefits of being against something is that you aren't necessarily lumped together with any particular enemies.

For example, I can be  both opposed to ConsultancyGate and opposed to GamerGate. Which of the two sides does this put me on? I would say neither of two stereotypical sides. I can think that the primary people behind both of these are stupid.

Quote from: jhkim;796236One of the benefits of being against something is that you aren't necessarily lumped together with any particular enemies.

For example, I can be  both opposed to ConsultancyGate and opposed to GamerGate. Which of the two sides does this put me on? I would say neither of two stereotypical sides. I can think that the primary people behind both of these are stupid.

Please consider the idea that the moving force behind #gamergate is the masses of people participating in it, not the talking heads who get the majority of the exposure.  A whole lot of our direction is aggressively crowdsourced in a way that strips away a lot of the ape-gaming potential of such talking heads.

Quote from: jhkim;796236One of the benefits of being against something is that you aren't necessarily lumped together with any particular enemies.

For example, I can be  both opposed to ConsultancyGate and opposed to GamerGate. Which of the two sides does this put me on? I would say neither of two stereotypical sides. I can think that the primary people behind both of these are stupid.

Just like I can be against the X party without being a member of the Y party.

However, this ignores the basic concept of Twitter, namely that hashtags are Topics, not identities. So anyone discussing GamerGate positive or negative, for or against, psycho or rational, uses that tag to be on that conversation.  Saying you're against #GamerGate, means you're against discussing that topic.

Quote from: Alathon;796238Please consider the idea that the moving force behind #gamergate is the masses of people participating in it, not the talking heads who get the majority of the exposure.  A whole lot of our direction is aggressively crowdsourced in a way that strips away a lot of the ape-gaming potential of such talking heads.

There you go again, denying the anti-GG narrative. Why do you hate women so?

BTW, the following picture was created by a woman, apparently she doesn't know she's a brainwashed self-hating misogynist.

Quote from: Alathon;796212Nobody can kill us without guns, and the conservabros seem pretty chill.  It's november fourth and I'm contemplating a protest vote, so I can honestly say I voted red down the ticket to my local reps, when I explain the potential costs of promoting bigotry against men.

Increasingly, I'm thinking some of the 'gamer' thing was about a shibboleth, where it was never really aimed at gamers but at men, in a society yet unwilling to tolerate open bigotry against men.  I'm not interested in allowing that window to be moved.

I thought that was readily apparent from the word go. This whole debacle has never been anything more than a naked power grab on the part of feminist ideologues, evidenced by the fact no one outside the hobby gave a shit what went on within it until the past decade when gaming suddenly became a multi-billion dollar industry.

The fact the accusations of misogyny and sexism are only ever leveled at male-dominated industries/activities, and then only at those perceived to have a certain level of economic, political and/or social power is telling as fuck.

Quote from: Will;796198You cannot control what others are doing under GamerGate flag -so you should fucking stop using the flag-.

You're arguing that grassroots movements aren't allowed to exist.

You're also arguing that Martin Luther King should have stopped describing himself as being a civil rights protester because he disagreed with the tactics of Malcolm X, who also described himself as a civil rights protester.

You're also arguing that Southern Baptists should have stopped calling themselves Christians because they have no control over the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church.

Your argument is really, really stupid.

Quote from: Will;796079Again, if there are so many uninformed people reacting to GG with dismay because of bad apples, why not form some other group and, you know, not call yourself a GamerGater?

Because they'll simply target the next group with the same tactics of disenfranchisement.

In addition to your really, really stupid argument, you appear to be in some sort of denial over the fact that the anti-GG movement has been targeting organizations with even a tangential relationship to the GG hashtag. They've got their brush dipped in tar, they've gotten major media groups to endorse the tar as being totally awesome, and now they're using the brush to paint as broadly as possible.

Quote from: Alathon;796233Please don't advocate such things;  I put no stock in anything Will is saying, but that's no reason to tell him to cease talking.

Shining him on about taking his marbles then not going home is fair game though

Simply giving him the option to get out before he digs himself into a much larger hole.

Quote from: Will;796075You will have to forgive me if my ROI on energy on this specific thread when I'm this outnumbered means I may skip responses sometimes (or miss posts).

Particularly when we have folks like Werekoala at the ready to make incisive productive responses.

You know, sometimes when you're outnumbered, it doesn't mean you're correct.

JG

Quote from: Will;796229You mean my argument of 'some of what you're saying may be valid and agreeable but is destroyed by labeling yourself what the awful people are using'?

The argument which is about willingly accepting a brand, and my noting that I'm not part of that SJW brand, and doing what I suggest 'moderate GGers' do?


Yeah, I'm such a hypocrite.
(There's your soundbite)

I'm not so much pro-GamerGate as anti-bullshit.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;796309You know, sometimes when you're outnumbered, it doesn't mean you're correct.

followed by...

Quote from: James Gillen;796314I'm not so much pro-GamerGate as anti-bullshit.

is just amazing.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;796264You're arguing that grassroots movements aren't allowed to exist.

Not all grassroots movements are overrun by outrageous shitbags. Those that are tend to not do well.

I know, I'm shocked, too.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;796264You're also arguing that Martin Luther King should have stopped describing himself as being a civil rights protester because he disagreed with the tactics of Malcolm X, who also described himself as a civil rights protester.

The analogy here would be more 'gamers.'
And hey, Black Panthers got flack for the actions of some of their members.
Go figure.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;796264You're also arguing that Southern Baptists should have stopped calling themselves Christians because they have no control over the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church.

The analogy here would be more folks no longer calling tehmselves Catholics, or calling themselves ex-Catholics, because of pedophile priests. Which, hey, guess what, a bunch of people did that.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;796264Your argument is really, really stupid.

Maybe it is, but you wouldn't know it from your post.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;796264Because they'll simply target the next group with the same tactics of disenfranchisement.

Except you'd have some more play from people who go 'hey, official club where people get kicked out once they turn out to be assholes and that isn't stemming from a shitbag ex-boyfriend trying to SHOW THEM ALL. Maybe I'll sign up!'

Hell, I'm all for ethics in gaming journalism. It'd be nice to see some review of an upcoming game that isn't a thinly veiled knobslobber by an intern.

I don't CARE that much, but I'd at least be favorably disposed.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;796264In addition to your really, really stupid argument, you appear to be in some sort of denial over the fact that the anti-GG movement has been targeting organizations with even a tangential relationship to the GG hashtag. They've got their brush dipped in tar, they've gotten major media groups to endorse the tar as being totally awesome, and now they're using the brush to paint as broadly as possible.

You seem to be in some sort of denial about the nature of GG and the nature of 'anti-GG.' Boy, that Flavor Aid is really tangy, eh?

For those that don't know, Nick Denton is the owner of Gawker Media:

So...Nick just admitted to astro-turfing #GG.

Source?

Yeah that seems way too "let me lay out my evil plot, mwhahaha" to be real.

Not that it's terribly unbelievable. Gawker is terrible in every way.

Question is how do we fight astro-turfing?