Quote from: JRT;796148Nope, I just showed an example of people moving away from confusing their identity from a toxic influence.  

The people moving away aren't confusing their identity. The people engaging in flawed thinking are the ones who do that. Some people choose to capitulate to the latter's nonsense, some don't.

QuoteIf the goals of some people in an associated twitter hashtag differ from others in it, it might be time to setup a new meme or hashtag or organization to separate the causes.

Says who?

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;796149The people moving away aren't confusing their identity. The people engaging in flawed thinking are the ones who do that. Some people choose to capitulate to the latter's nonsense, some don't.

Says who?

There's nothing flawed in my thinking.  Part of engaging in social change, protest, or other movements is knowing public relations.  People know when to back off if they are upsetting the public and to portray themselves in a good light.  The big negatives of changing a name is branding, but we're not talking about a trademark that has dozens of years of goodwill, or a organization that has existed for centuries.  We are talking about a 3 month old #HASHTAG, those things are memes that don't last.

I think you are tying up too much identity in a hashtag.  If you have goals with a movement, you should care about them more than the hashtag.  If you however, are identifying with the hashtag more than the actual goals you are trying to achieve, I think you may be missing the point.  I think too much discussion about GG has been either about what mean things people are saying about the movement or what the movement is saying about the people they perceive as their enemies and less about the original goals involved.  

Let me put it this way--I'd back an organization that was interested in looking at a positive way to help increase the integrity of video game journalism.  But it's not gonna be GG...it's too nebulous and either filled with people way too worried about so-called SJW or feminists or whatever (I really don't give a fig about that stuff), or people who feel they should attack advertisers (or advertising networks) to destroy media outlets who "hurt their feelings".  Both of those attacks are things I find repugnant.   But if you guys moved into clearer organizations with clearer goals, I might support you--depending on which goals you support.

Quote from: Spinachcat;796090Fuck the spectators. If others want to define me, judge me, or lump me into whatever category, they are free to go ahead. WTF would I ever care what a bunch of worthless SJWs think?

They didn't design our uniforms. /MitchellandWebb

The spectators didn't declare you are a GamerGater, YOU did.

Quote from: S'mon;796100So are you, mate.

No I'm not. I'm not attaching #GamerGaterSux or calling myself anything. I'm not standing 'with' Sarkeesian or Quinn or anyone in particular. I'm against GG.

Unless you think every critic of, say, the US government is the same?

Quote from: Alathon;796113If you did that, the racists you bed down with would ask if you can make the movement more kinetic, while the multi-level marketers you bend knee to would demand that you hand over control of the alias to a woman (like her, for example) as soon as she saw that you had audience to target.

That's hysterical.

Quote from: MrHurst;796127Will, I'm an atheist. I think Sam Harris is a fucking tool and his views on Islam are roughly as backwards as fundamentalist Islam's views about women. Doesn't mean I need to come up with a colorful new term for myself, it means I don't perpetuate his opinions. I spread my own opinions instead.

Interestingly, I've started using other terms to describe myself, because Atheist is a little confusing of a term (it includes Buddhists and animists, for one thing), and because people tend to group me in with Harris and Dawkin.

So I go with Secular Materialist. It's more accurate, anyway. Or 'I don't believe in the supernatural.'

Quote from: MrHurst;796127That's more or less what the guys around here have been doing with gamer gate. At least one actively supporting getting rid of the disruptive element that is making them look bad. Then you sit there and keep slathering them with accusations based on people who they have little to do with.

Will, how about the Quinn supporters explain why they shouted down someone who claimed to have been harassed by Quinn until he said it was a bad time to bring it up and apologized? Can we drag that out and label you with it? How you totally suppress victims so you can have your political way. As far as I'm concerned it'd be a dick thing to do to you, even if it was a massively offensive thing to have seen done in the first place.

If I was #QuinnExperience guy, you might have a point.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;796103But how are they horrible? They're the good guys right? Standing firm against a vile hate group of white men. How could they EVER be wrong? After all, it's not like a huge group of minorities they claim to speak for told them to go piss up a rope.

Heh.
http://www.tumblr.com/search/reddit%20transgendered

Quote from: Will;796160

Don't you see what you are doing?

Saying all GamerGaters are misogynic or by association helps misogynic ones ....
It is the same as saying all muslims accept terrorism or worse.
It is the same as saying that all feminists really is misandrists.
It is the same as saying all darkskinned is rappers.
It is the same as saying all gamers is beardnecks.
It is the same as saying all roleplayers is occultist, bent on summoning demons or helping them in this.

As ArrozConLeche pointed out, that thinking is a fallacy, or simply prejudice.

Quote from: Catelf;796165As ArrozConLeche pointed out, that thinking is a fallacy, or simply prejudice.

It's not, I've argued extensively why.

Quote from: Will;796169It's not, I've argued extensively why.

You havent successfully argued why because you've failed to account for a number of criticisms. But the argument fails largely based on the very definition of prejudice: you're trying to paint a large diverse group as sharing the negative characteristics of an outlying minority.

Quote from: Will;796169It's not, I've argued extensively why.

You do not see what you are doing then.
Or perhaps you do, and just want an argument.

If it is the first, it seems like not even being treated the same will make you understand, because you will again claim that it isn't the same thing.
No matter how similar, "it isn't the same thing".
I'm sad, but I guess your ignorance may be important.

If it is the second, then you are silly, and we can't have it that way.:nono:
(Were I supposed to get interrupted while saying that?)

Or maybe I just disagree with you.
You know, that happens sometimes.

It's childish Internettery that people who have a different stance are ignorant, stupid, willfully churlish, trolling, or you haven't explained it enough.

I've explained my views on why I think moderates shouldn't use the hashtag movement, and how it's different from, say, being Christian. I've also explained why I think there aren't two 'sides' and that 'pro-GG' is different from 'anti-GG.'

Many folks here disagree. Ok.

If you want my responses to those points, reread the thread.

Quote from: Will;796178Or maybe I just disagree with you.
You know, that happens sometimes.

It's childish Internettery that people who have a different stance are ignorant, stupid, willfully churlish, trolling, or you haven't explained it enough.

I've explained my views on why I think moderates shouldn't use the hashtag movement, and how it's different from, say, being Christian. I've also explained why I think there aren't two 'sides' and that 'pro-GG' is different from 'anti-GG.'

Many folks here disagree. Ok.

If you want my responses to those points, reread the thread.

Let's just say a disagreement backed up with evidence, logic, and a coherent argument carries more weight than a disagreement that's based on heresay, ignoring any criticism they can't account for, and myriads of logical fallacies.

Sorry, mate, you have lost The Internet. Insert another quarter to try again.

Quote from: TristramEvans;796181Let's just say a disagreement backed up with evidence, logic, and a coherent argument carries more weight than a disagreement that's based on heresay, ignoring any criticism they can't account for, and myriads of logical fallacies.

GGers discount the evidence, overlook or disagree with the logic, or habitually forget the argument I'm making.

Quote from: TristramEvans;796181Sorry, mate, you have lost The Internet. Insert another quarter to try again.

It's so cute that you guys think you are winning.

Quote from: Will;796185GGers discount the evidence, overlook or disagree with the logic, or habitually forget the argument I'm making.

 You should go complaign to them about it.

Will your problem is you literally think you comic strip is what is happening right now.  The reality is that a guy who is a gamergate at Michigan cannot control what a gamergate guy in New York is saying.  Can the guy at Michigan condemn what the guy from New York had said?  Yes and he can tell people to not listen to that guy from New York, but that is it.  That is all he can do in both legal and moral terms.  All he can do is call out the fucker.

Oh wait we have people like Margaret Gel that does that.  They find assholes that abuse gamergate and call them out on it.  She is also not the only one that does it, but she is known to do that.  She also supports gamergate despite those assholes.  Point is gamergate is fixing it at the best of its ability.  You can't say the same for the shits at anti-gamergate.

Anti-GamerGate isn't a thing. It's an eidolon you guys are making up so you can beat 'both sides!' drum.

You cannot control what others are doing under GamerGate flag -so you should fucking stop using the flag-.

Until then I'm going to see you as complicit.

Quote from: Will;796198Anti-GamerGate isn't a thing. It's an eidolon you guys are making up so you can beat 'both sides!' drum.

You cannot control what others are doing under GamerGate flag -so you should fucking stop using the flag-.

Until then I'm going to see you as complicit.

You should stop calling yourself a roleplayer.
You should stop calling yourself "Will".
If you don't then you are a misogynist, a hater of women!

....How do that make YOU feel?